VOTE: WNBA 2024 All-Stars. Ends June 29th

[MrDollarBills]

Angel is in talks with Hershey for an endorsement deal, I'll let you guess which candy it is

[Ghetto Gospel]

Had the corny thought come to my head some time ago that after all the controversy (stirred up by ESPNs of the world, plus a lot of turd for brains), and competitive rivalry, thought it would be really cool for it to come full circle and have Angel and Caitlin someday wind up on the same team and rule the league.

While not quite that, we do get to see them as teammates sooner than perhaps anyone would have originally thought.

I love this Olympians vs everyone else format btw.

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I'm with you in shipping Caitlin & Angel. I've found Angel to be pretty annoying so far, but y'know, at one time that's how I felt about Rodman, and now I'm so glad Rodman existed. Reese has some Rodman in her.

Okay so, some analysis:

Representation by team, ordered by standings:

Liberty 3 (Sabrina, Stewie, Jonquel)
Sun 3 (AT, Bonner, Brionna)
Lynx 2 (Collier, McBride)
Storm 2 (Loyd, Nneka)
Aces 4 (Chelsea, Plum, A'ja, Young)
Mercury 3 (Copper, Griner, Taurasi)
Dream 1 (Allisha)
Sky 1 (Reese)
Fever 3 (Boston, Clark, Mitchell)
Mystics 0 (none)
Sparks 1 (Hamby)
Wings 1 (Arike)

Observations:

* As you'd expect, better teams tend to get more all-star representatives.
* Interesting to me that not all teams were represented given that in a league this small (12 teams), it's just really easy to find one of 24 spots to give to the Mystics.
* Clearest trend diverging from team record is Olympic involvement. All 4 of the Aces and all 3 of the Mercury are on the WNT. So that likely puts a squeeze on what some of the better teams might have had if it were only this WNBA season that was getting factored in.
* We know that actual voting is what determines the first pass of this stuff. From that the following players were given spots:

Boston (FC)
Clark (G)
Hamby (FC)
Arike (G)

From there coaches filled out their roster with:

Bonner (Con) (FC)
Allisha (Atl) (G)
Brionna (Con) (FC)
Jonquel (NY) (FC)
McBride (Min) (G)
Mitchell (Ind) (G)
Nneka (Sea) (FC)
Reese (Chi) (FC)

Position is highlighted because it's a critical part of the official process - and note that with it being 7 FC & 5 G, this means we ought to be able to replace a guard with a frontcourt or vice versa.
Team highlighted because it's typically a critical part of the unofficial process.

The immediate thing I'd look at here then is the fact that they did choose more than one from a single team in one case, from one elite team in the Sun, they did not do so for the other two elite teams (NY & Lynx), despite the fact that this means awarding the inferior Fever with more all-stars than the Lynx and as many as the Liberty.

So, this points to a question in particular if there's anyone on the Lynx or Liberty than deserved a spot more than Mitchell. So, candidates:

From Minnesota: Bridget Carleton (3rd in MPG) & Alanna Smith (3rd in MP) would seem the top contenders. It's definitely a major drop off in primacy, minutes & stars, between the two already-all-stars (Collier & McBride). Here we're talking about players who are arguably most noteworthy as being the 3 point spacers of Cheryl Reeve's new approach that seems to be working so well, but they don't have the kind of prominence on their team as Mitchell does on the Fever right now which is operating as more of a Big 3.

From New York: Betnijah Laney is the clear cut candidate here (though godspeed Sloot!). The Liberty play a scheme where 4 players play big minutes, and Laney is one of them playing 32.8 MPG which is more than Mitchell's 30.1 MPG.

Mitchell is more of a scorer of course, leading her team - which includes Clark - with 16.6 PPG, so that gives an immediate thought to why maybe she came to mind to voters as a bigger deal than Laney.

Now, as I alluded to in the Awards thread: Laney's +/- numbers are absolutely huge. She leads the entire league in raw +/-, well ahead of even her teammates. Now this is a simplistic metric of course and I don't want to talk as if the number says a clear interpretation for how good a player is, but I like it as a starting point - just know that I know it's not the end all, be all, and there's a lot of noise in the signal - So here are top 10 players in the league right now by it:

1. Laney (NY) +224
2. Sabrina (NY) +198
3. Stewie (NY) +197
4. Jonquel (NY) +191
5. Brionna (Con) +170
6. Collier (Min) +157
7. Loyd (Sea) +147
(tie) McBride (Min) +147
9. Nneka (Sea) +127
10. Bonner (Con) +126

I'd note that players 2-10 are all named all-star.

I'll also note that Smith ranks 13th and Carleton ranks 16th by this metric.

What about Mitchell? Well, for that we reverse the sort.

Here are the worst raw +/- numbers of players this year:

1. Mitchell (Ind) -145
2. Smith (Ind) -136
3. Arike (Dal) -127
4. Hamby (LA) -126
5. Clark (Ind) -123

And for completeness:
7. Boston (Ind) -117

Yeah so:

* Yup, Mitchell has the worst in the entire league this year
* Though note that this is a stat where the worst players in the league don't play enough to rack up totals to compete for this.
* That said, having 3-5 & 7 on this list be named all-star is pretty crazy.
* Astute readers might also note that 3-5 & & were voter choices rather than coach choices.

Big question: What does it mean when all-star players are producing such awful raw +/- in this league? (We don't see this in the NBA, by contrast.)

Possible hot take: Mitchell scoring more than Clark might not be an accomplishment by Mitchell so much as some deference by Clark toward a teammate who was the lead scorer (and all-star) on the team last year. Would be one thing if it were working, but Mitchell's got an awful On-Off compared to Clark & Boston.

It's thus possible that Mitchell's getting rewarded by coaches based on a variety of reputation-based things that are combining to make her look star-like, when really she might need to be traded so the Faver can focus on its young core of Clark & Boston who are each 6 years younger than Mitchell.

And yeah: I'll say Laney's my pick for snub here. I'd give her Mitchell's spot.

Big question: i think the reason we see this in the WNBA rather than the NBA is that there are a smaller pool of players to choose from for the all star-team while also having the same amount of all-stars (24 in the NBA, 12 all-stars and 12 olympians in the WNBA). in the nba, there are enough good players on good teams to round out the all-star roster while in the wnba, there aren't.

with regards to kelsey mitchell, just from watching fever games, mitchell feels very cam thomas-y. if she's playing as the off-guard, once the ball touches her hands, she's taking the shot. she'd be great as the 6th person off the bench in a microwave scorer role in the way the nba used to use them when there wasn't as much talent. unfortunately, i think the fever don't quite have the talent to push her into the bench role which is where i think she should be.

[Ice Man]

I still have no idea why Kelsey Mitchell is an All Star and Chennedy Carter is not. They both play the same role, except that Carter scores 5 more points per 36 (with similar efficiency), while getting twice as many rebounds, assists, and steals.

[jc23]

I still have no idea why Kelsey Mitchell is an All Star and Chennedy Carter is not. They both play the same role, except that Carter scores 5 more points per 36 (with similar efficiency), while getting twice as many rebounds, assists, and steals.

I voted once. You couldnt just vote for one player; you had to make all your all star picks. Its why the players at the top are so close to each other in vote count. So if your a new fan and only watch the Fever your probably voting Mitchell in there.

[KembaWalker]

I still have no idea why Kelsey Mitchell is an All Star and Chennedy Carter is not. They both play the same role, except that Carter scores 5 more points per 36 (with similar efficiency), while getting twice as many rebounds, assists, and steals.

I voted once. You couldnt just vote for one player; you had to make all your all star picks. Its why the players at the top are so close to each other in vote count. So if your a new fan and only watch the Fever your probably voting Mitchell in there.

this is not true, you were able to vote for 1 player. this was my vote, not because i actually wanted to vote this way, it just happened to come up when i was discussing with another user that how i don't believe the vote counts the WNBA listed were legitimate.

not necessarily looking to rehash that convo in here because I got warned for it last time but just reiterating because it came up again:

[jc23]

Ha, i stand corrected.

[KembaWalker]

Ha, i stand corrected.

im actually surprised they didnt do it that way because it would at least give them some plausible deniability to explain how the number of raw votes for the top getters year over year jumped by 10x but the person more or less solely responsible for that jump wasn't leading the results (at the time).

i do see CC did end up winning comfortably but i still think some shenanigans behind the scenes probably made it a lot closer than it was in reality because the league seems constantly uncomfortable with broadcasting how hard they are being carried by one person for whatever reason

anyway, done on that topic sorry mods

[MrDollarBills]

WNBA viewership and engagement are way up across the board league wide, not just for the Fever, yet it's some kinda conspiracy theory that the all star voting numbers are rigged.

[Ice Man]

We don't know yet why this is so, but whatever the reason, it's very silly that the WNBA's 3-point contest does not include the two players that every WNBA newbie -- and there are a lot of us, as viewership has nearly tripled this year -- wants to see. No Sabrina Ionescu, no Caitlin Clark.

Now that's a PR fail.

[hermes]

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they asked but clark turned it down

[Ice Man]

they asked but clark turned it down

OK, change my comment from "very silly" to "very unfortunate." I can see why Clark wants the break, but that's bad luck for the league.

[tmorgan]

I hope Clark turns down an Olympic Team sub spot, too. She needs the rest, she can say she’s rehabbing something, and she can insinuate “if you wanted me there, you should have picked me.” She may not say it, but I’m sure she’s a little pissed off at them.

Instead, she can rest and come back ready to secure her team a playoff spot.