Caitlin Clark left off USA Roster

[Domejandro]

This is a pretty dumb take IMO, so they are dominate but still can't break even after nearly 20 years.... mayyyyyybbbe it's time for the league to worry about entertainment aspect as well, if the NBA didn't give subsidy to this league it would have folded years ago.

Investing in womens basketball is valuable to the long-term ecosystem of the NBA, the idea that the subsidy is a dead-end investment is not accurate. The WNBA is less than thirty years old, it takes time to develop profitability; the indirect value of getting young women across the country invested in playing basketball is massive.

How many businesses in life are able to run for 30 years off negative profits? Lol

Tesla wasn't profitable for a decade and it took Amazon nine years to have a profitable year. Both for good reasons, a lot the "failure" to break into profitability was because of reinvestment and taking chances.

Most MLS teams still lose money, with the league being largely unprofitable since its founding in 1994 (though this is improving!).

While the WNBA itself is not profitable, you are MASSIVELY underappreciating the value using it to bolster a pipeline for girls to maintain interest in playing competitive basketball; it strengthens interest in the NBA as a product at a relatively low annual cost. Beyond that, the WNBA is rapidly improving financially, with revenue increasing from $60 million in 2017 to $200 million in 2023. A couple teams are already profitable, revenue is rapidly improving, and the WNBA is poised to have HUGE infusion of talent over the next few years.

Regardless, measuring success exclusively through profitability misses the huge value add of cultivating a strong pipeline for young girls to play basketball.

[cupcakesnake]

I agree with you, however arguments I’m seeing is that it should be about who are the “top 12 players” or some version of that. If that is the case then Taurasi doesn’t belong. If other factors are being considered which they obviously are otherwise Taurasi wouldn’t be on the roster, then people should be open about it when arguing against Clark and be open to considering other factors are well.

Yeah if you strip it down to a purist argument that's fine and true. I just think whether CC should be on whether Taurasi should be on are separate arguments. Another argument about "who are the top 12 American WNBA players" would be fun too.

Taurasi has been one of the leaders of team USA for a long long time so i'm not in the least bit surprised to see her name on the initial roster despite her being a pretty mediocre WNBA player now at age 42.

Very different from the argument that people are making here that CC should be brought along because she's insanely popular.

At least for me, it’s that she’s insanely popular AND better than Taurasi. The team actually gets better imo.

Neither of them are/would be expected to be driving on court success. So would you prefer bringing the captain of the team for the leadership and experience? Or CC for the popularity? That's more the question because there's no way CC would be getting minutes over Chelsea Gray, Kelsey Plumm, Sabrina Ionescu, Jewell Lloyed, or Jackie Young.

The team isn't getting better from their 6th guard with CC over Taurasi. If you want to improve the 6th guard spot, don't look to Clark. You got Arike Ogunbowale, Kayla McBride, Natash Cloud, Rhyne Howard, Skylar Diggins-Smith... I could go on and on before getting to CC at this point.

[dockingsched]

Arike is the most overrated player I’ve ever seen, don’t get me started on that

Jordan Poole of the wnba

[nbanflguy]

Name the player who should be left off this year for Caitlin Clark, especially with the context that she missed the Team USA practices taking the Iowa Hawkeyes to the Final Four.

In case you weren’t aware, Clark has played for Team USA for years in younger age group competitions. She only missed try outs because she was carrying a mediocre Iowa team to the Final Four, and that success should be rewarded, not be punished. Finally, Team USA already said that missing the try outs was fine, and they would use her first month of WNBA play as the try out.

So if you're upset in general about young players being left off, why not make noise about Cameron Brink or Angel Reese or players who are better WNBA player at the moment?

There's definitely a great argument for including Clark. But it's not indefensible to leave her off, when their goal is clearly to bring the very best players. You can disagree with that strategy, but it's not specific to Clark. There are a lot of young stars in the W that got left off this team.

You want it bluntly? Cameron Brink and Angel Reese DO NOT MATTER. Stop trying to force this rookie class nonsense. That’s a media creation. It’s not real. Angel Reese just had her home coming game in Maryland and had 10,000 fans. Very next night 20,000 are there for CC. Most fans in a WNBA game in 17 years. This was a game between I think the 2 worst teams in the league. NO OTHER WNBA PLAYER MATTERS. You might not like it, but it’s the truth. What they need to be doing is going absolutely allllllllll in on CC. Promote her at every level. Make her the starter on team USA and let her play big minutes. This brings millions of viewers, money, and creates new fans. Then maybe the new fans and increased viewers might get introduced to new players and become fans of them as well and the sport grows. If any of her teammates had come to her defense against Carter that teammate would have instantly become the 2nd most popular player in the WNBA. The rest of the players can hate her all they want. Hate her, but still use her for your benefit. They can’t even do that right

[shrink]

Name the player who should be left off this year for Caitlin Clark, especially with the context that she missed the Team USA practices taking the Iowa Hawkeyes to the Final Four.

In case you weren’t aware, Clark has played for Team USA for years in younger age group competitions. She only missed try outs because she was carrying a mediocre Iowa team to the Final Four, and that success should be rewarded, not be punished. Finally, Team USA already said that missing the try outs was fine, and they would use her first month of WNBA play as the try out.

So if you're upset in general about young players being left off, why not make noise about Cameron Brink or Angel Reese or players who are better WNBA player at the moment?

There's definitely a great argument for including Clark. But it's not indefensible to leave her off, when their goal is clearly to bring the very best players. You can disagree with that strategy, but it's not specific to Clark. There are a lot of young stars in the W that got left off this team.

Dude, didn’t you start off arguing “12 Best” to keep Caitlyn out, switch to “Not 12 Best” so you could put Taurasi in, and now switch back to “Best” here?

I posted the background here to make sure people knew the facts that Clark had participated in Team USA events for years, and only missed the last one because she was playing in the Final Four. And I’ve pointed out previous teams take young players when someone (it might have been you), had used the “this team didn’t take any players with less than four years in the wnba” argument. And now, “let’s decide which young player goes to the Olympics based on one month of the WNBA!” It really feels like cherry picking, to try to find ways to specifically exclude Clark.

My position has been that these are fake justifications. There is no denying that Caitlyn Clark (not Brink, Reese or Taurasi) brings a popularity and marketability to women’s basketball, and that the worldwide stage of the Olympics would have been a terrific opportunity for the sport.

[PD28]

Petty people in places of power clearly.

Going to be her league soon enough. Saw an ESPN video of the Fever arena being filled - that's gotta hurt some of these dinosaur's ego (Taurasi)

[wade44]

lol at this thread getting moved to the abyss. Some feelers were hurt clearly

[Kilroy]

If CC got the hype and friendly whistles LeBron and MJ got when they came in, she'd have a legit shot at being the face of all US sports... She'd at least be up there with any Olympian or Women's Soccer player.

[76Shots]

In case you weren’t aware, Clark has played for Team USA for years in younger age group competitions. She only missed try outs because she was carrying a mediocre Iowa team to the Final Four, and that success should be rewarded, not be punished. Finally, Team USA already said that missing the try outs was fine, and they would use her first month of WNBA play as the try out.

So if you're upset in general about young players being left off, why not make noise about Cameron Brink or Angel Reese or players who are better WNBA player at the moment?

There's definitely a great argument for including Clark. But it's not indefensible to leave her off, when their goal is clearly to bring the very best players. You can disagree with that strategy, but it's not specific to Clark. There are a lot of young stars in the W that got left off this team.

You want it bluntly? Cameron Brink and Angel Reese DO NOT MATTER. Stop trying to force this rookie class nonsense. That’s a media creation. It’s not real. Angel Reese just had her home coming game in Maryland and had 10,000 fans. Very next night 20,000 are there for CC. Most fans in a WNBA game in 17 years. This was a game between I think the 2 worst teams in the league. NO OTHER WNBA PLAYER MATTERS. You might not like it, but it’s the truth. What they need to be doing is going absolutely allllllllll in on CC. Promote her at every level. Make her the starter on team USA and let her play big minutes. This brings millions of viewers, money, and creates new fans. Then maybe the new fans and increased viewers might get introduced to new players and become fans of them as well and the sport grows. If any of her teammates had come to her defense against Carter that teammate would have instantly become the 2nd most popular player in the WNBA. The rest of the players can hate her all they want. Hate her, but still use her for your benefit. They can’t even do that right

I dont understand this argument. If Angel Reese and Cameron Brink and the rest of the rookie class / WNBA players dont matter how would overly promoting CC bring in millions of viewers, money and create new fans? Your argument sounds like you're more interested in creating CC fans and not WNBA fans; especially, considering that all these hypothetical new fans who will be brought in by CC, will be rooting against whoever plays her (which would essentially be the entire league with the exception of her teammates). So in essence it sounds as if most of you are proposing a league where CC is the darling and the rest of the league is the heel (which is kind of ironically already happening).

[thejigglyroom]

Are you upset because it means you won’t watch and support the women’s team without her on the roster or are you upset because it means that the USA women’s team is weaker and can’t win a metal without Clarke?

Yeah, the US clearly can’t win any “metals” without Clarke. I’m with you guys. I’m gonna pick a random country to root for because I can’t be rooting for scrubs. I’m just beside myself with anger. I guess the US truly doesn’t care about winning and I guess that’s why they never have.

Dark days are ahead people. Stay ready!

[madskillz8]

Ok. I think we have long-time WNBA fans feeling unhappy and insecure about the popularity of CC. Just like WNBA stars did.

And I can totally understand that because I know that feeling: "irrelevant but ours". Then, they're watching bunch of "regulars" are coming and making it "relevant for larger audiences, but it is no longer theirs". It is like being a fan of some no-name band for years, and hating it when they are becoming popular.

I also know that such a feeling can make people very irrational. Look, just one example: the thread for 2023 WNBA season (opened by cupcakesnake) has 12 total pages, and this very thread is already 8 pages in an hour. Similarly 2024 season thread has more posts in the first month of WNBA season.

One can expect this growing interest would have made long-time fans very happy, as the league is finally getting the attention it deserves. But, wait... Instead, they start hating on CC and the audience she brings, and making such comments like "her snub is like Scott Henderson is not making team USA". No it is not and everybody and their mothers know that. People just want it "irrelevant, but THEIRS". That's all.

[azcatz11]

Truly pathetic stuff right here folks. The folks making these decisions deserve to go broke

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[sikma42]

Truly pathetic stuff right here folks. The folks making these decisions deserve to go broke

Read on Twitter

?s=46

She doesn’t seem like a reliable source here.

It’s also being framed weirdly (which goes to the above point). This is a perfectly normal part of a decision making process in additions to a multitude of other factors. But if the goal is to put forward the best team possible then it’s more than fine to leave CC home.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

So if you're upset in general about young players being left off, why not make noise about Cameron Brink or Angel Reese or players who are better WNBA player at the moment?

There's definitely a great argument for including Clark. But it's not indefensible to leave her off, when their goal is clearly to bring the very best players. You can disagree with that strategy, but it's not specific to Clark. There are a lot of young stars in the W that got left off this team.

You want it bluntly? Cameron Brink and Angel Reese DO NOT MATTER. Stop trying to force this rookie class nonsense. That’s a media creation. It’s not real. Angel Reese just had her home coming game in Maryland and had 10,000 fans. Very next night 20,000 are there for CC. Most fans in a WNBA game in 17 years. This was a game between I think the 2 worst teams in the league. NO OTHER WNBA PLAYER MATTERS. You might not like it, but it’s the truth. What they need to be doing is going absolutely allllllllll in on CC. Promote her at every level. Make her the starter on team USA and let her play big minutes. This brings millions of viewers, money, and creates new fans. Then maybe the new fans and increased viewers might get introduced to new players and become fans of them as well and the sport grows. If any of her teammates had come to her defense against Carter that teammate would have instantly become the 2nd most popular player in the WNBA. The rest of the players can hate her all they want. Hate her, but still use her for your benefit. They can’t even do that right

I dont understand this argument. If Angel Reese and Cameron Brink and the rest of the rookie class / WNBA players dont matters how would overly promoting CC bring in millions of viewers, money and create new fans? Your argument sounds like you are more interested in creating CC fans and not WNBA fans. Especially, considering that all these hypothetical new fans who will be brought in by CC, will be rooting against whoever plays her (which would essentially be the entire league with the exception of her teammates). So in essence it sounds as if most of you are proposing a league where CC is the darling and the rest of the league is the heel.

The media promoting Clark already HAS brought in “million of viewers, money and created new fans.” Since Clark has joined the WNBA, the WNBA numbers have spiked, and the sport has received so much more coverage than it has in the past.

The other point here is that if the WNBA was selecting who the WNBA wants to see, they probably wouldn’t pick Clark. But this is the Olympics, and the Team USA selection should be who America wants to see, the representative they want to send. The Olympics is a fantastic platform because it gives a sport a chance to reach an untold number of CASUAL fans, and each casual fan is an opportunity to bring them into the sport on a longterm basis. Clark’s logo three’s draw casual fans in, and they may start to enjoy (and spend money on) the product as a whole.

[dockingsched]

Still think Clark will end up replacing an injured Gray and team USA can argue they didn’t just hand it to her while still having the benefit of having her on the team. Win win.

[76Shots]

You want it bluntly? Cameron Brink and Angel Reese DO NOT MATTER. Stop trying to force this rookie class nonsense. That’s a media creation. It’s not real. Angel Reese just had her home coming game in Maryland and had 10,000 fans. Very next night 20,000 are there for CC. Most fans in a WNBA game in 17 years. This was a game between I think the 2 worst teams in the league. NO OTHER WNBA PLAYER MATTERS. You might not like it, but it’s the truth. What they need to be doing is going absolutely allllllllll in on CC. Promote her at every level. Make her the starter on team USA and let her play big minutes. This brings millions of viewers, money, and creates new fans. Then maybe the new fans and increased viewers might get introduced to new players and become fans of them as well and the sport grows. If any of her teammates had come to her defense against Carter that teammate would have instantly become the 2nd most popular player in the WNBA. The rest of the players can hate her all they want. Hate her, but still use her for your benefit. They can’t even do that right

I dont understand this argument. If Angel Reese and Cameron Brink and the rest of the rookie class / WNBA players dont matters how would overly promoting CC bring in millions of viewers, money and create new fans? Your argument sounds like you are more interested in creating CC fans and not WNBA fans. Especially, considering that all these hypothetical new fans who will be brought in by CC, will be rooting against whoever plays her (which would essentially be the entire league with the exception of her teammates). So in essence it sounds as if most of you are proposing a league where CC is the darling and the rest of the league is the heel.

The media promoting Clark already HAS brought in “million of viewers, money and created new fans.” Since Clark has joined the WNBA, the WNBA numbers have spiked, and the sport has received so much more coverage than it has in the past.

The other point here is that if the WNBA was selecting who the WNBA wants to see, they probably wouldn’t pick Clark. But this is the Olympics, and the Team USA selection should be who America wants to see, the representative they want to send. The Olympics is a fantastic platform because it gives a sport a chance to reach an untold number of CASUAL fans, and each casual fan is an opportunity to bring them into the sport on a longterm basis. Clark’s logo three’s draw casual fans in, and they may start to enjoy (and spend money on) the product as a whole.

When has this ever been the case or consideration for the selection process of Team USA mens or womens basketball?

[MrDollarBills]

The amount of bad takes in this thread are embarrassing, but not surprising since this thread started on the General Board which is nothing but a bunch of mouth breathing morons that hate women to begin with.

The players selected to this team are the top veteran players in the United States. Clark is also coming off of coming right from the NCAAs to pro ball, asking her to also play in the Olympics is a lot.

She'll get her turn. Meanwhile I look forward to watching this team blow the entire field out in Paris.

[shrink]

When has this ever been the case or consideration for the selection process of Team USA mens or womens basketball?

Wasn’t this what Kyrie fans said, why he wasn’t back on the team? That Team USA had to realize he was a top-12 player, but they unfairly spurned him because they didn’t want him representing USA?

Like Women’s soccer a few Olympics ago, women’s basketball could have used the Olympics to magnify their popularity with the right approach to fans. We’ll see what happens.

[Bakomagic]

Neutral fan take here.

Hypothetically, It would be so entertaining if she totally leaned into the me against the haters and took the approach of telling everyone she is dealing with jealousy, hatred, cheap shots, threats and being ostracized but still plans on taking over the league!

Imagine her going on podcasts and shows to push this narrative while going out and balling. It would be like wrestling haha, people would run to root for or hate watch CC.

Ratings would sky rocket even more. Famous divisive personalities would join in for clout. How long before Trump jumps in on it haha.

She’d become a famous or infamous legend!

Probably not the best decision for CC mental health to do that though.

[nbanflguy]

So if you're upset in general about young players being left off, why not make noise about Cameron Brink or Angel Reese or players who are better WNBA player at the moment?

There's definitely a great argument for including Clark. But it's not indefensible to leave her off, when their goal is clearly to bring the very best players. You can disagree with that strategy, but it's not specific to Clark. There are a lot of young stars in the W that got left off this team.

You want it bluntly? Cameron Brink and Angel Reese DO NOT MATTER. Stop trying to force this rookie class nonsense. That’s a media creation. It’s not real. Angel Reese just had her home coming game in Maryland and had 10,000 fans. Very next night 20,000 are there for CC. Most fans in a WNBA game in 17 years. This was a game between I think the 2 worst teams in the league. NO OTHER WNBA PLAYER MATTERS. You might not like it, but it’s the truth. What they need to be doing is going absolutely allllllllll in on CC. Promote her at every level. Make her the starter on team USA and let her play big minutes. This brings millions of viewers, money, and creates new fans. Then maybe the new fans and increased viewers might get introduced to new players and become fans of them as well and the sport grows. If any of her teammates had come to her defense against Carter that teammate would have instantly become the 2nd most popular player in the WNBA. The rest of the players can hate her all they want. Hate her, but still use her for your benefit. They can’t even do that right

I dont understand this argument. If Angel Reese and Cameron Brink and the rest of the rookie class / WNBA players dont matter how would overly promoting CC bring in millions of viewers, money and create new fans? Your argument sounds like you're more interested in creating CC fans and not WNBA fans; especially, considering that all these hypothetical new fans who will be brought in by CC, will be rooting against whoever plays her (which would essentially be the entire league with the exception of her teammates). So in essence it sounds as if most of you are proposing a league where CC is the darling and the rest of the league is the heel (which is kind of ironically already happening).

CC herself is already more popular than the WNBA. It happened organically over the last 2 years. Put her front and center and hope the CC fans become WNBA fans eventually after watching her for the next 10-15 years. Hope she inspires little girls to grow up trying to mimic her play style. In 15 years you could have multiple exciting guards doing outlet passes, cool layups, and pulling up from 30 feet with some efficiency. If the last 30 years hasn’t proven to people that the genera public will never care about 6’3 160 pound centers blocking and rebounding over shorter players while playing below the rim themselves idk what will