How is CC's rookie year going to go?

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

[hermes]

likely a long shot. the aces would have to really fall off to like 6-8 seed territory and the fever would have to go one a heck of a run to get a top 4 seed. and none of the other contenders setting themselves apart from the field

[MrDollarBills]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

Not this year. The Fever are still below .500. Most likely it's between Phee, Stewie, and A'ja.

[MrDollarBills]

Fever should think about what Thunder did to get Westbrook to get defensive rebounds so she can lead the transition offense faster.

Indiana isn't quite at that stage, but when the rebound does head in Clark's way her teammates instantly change direction and sprint up the court. Also, when another player gets the rebound she immediately looks for Clark. Neither of those things were consistently occurring when the season started. Those changes are two (of the many) reasons for the Fever's dramatic offensive improvement.

Whether Fever win or lose Clark typically has the same TS%, points, assists, steals, blocks, TOs

The only different stats between wins and losses are defensive boards.
Clark has 6.8rpg in wins and 4.1rpg in losses.

A 66% jump in rebounds wins compared to losses is pretty substantial. It fits the eye test of transition pressure and we have precedence of impact with Westbrook.

This makes sense, one of the keys to stopping the Fever offense is keeping her from pushing in transition off of a rebound. If your defense isn't set while she's pushing, you're cooked.

[Ice Man]

Here is a stat that nobody is talking about. Entering this season, the record for points accounted for per game, meaning points scored + points created by assist, was set by Diana Tauresi in 2006. She scored 25.3 points per game and had 4.1 assists, for a total of 33.5 points accounted for (assuming 2 points per assist, as I have no way of counting the 3 point baskets on assists.

Clark currently is at 18.0 points and 8.2 assists, which puts her at 34.2 points accounted for per game -- a new season record.

[ellobo]

Here is a stat that nobody is talking about. Entering this season, the record for points accounted for per game, meaning points scored + points created by assist, was set by Diana Tauresi in 2006. She scored 25.3 points per game and had 4.1 assists, for a total of 33.5 points accounted for (assuming 2 points per assist, as I have no way of counting the 3 point baskets on assists.

Clark currently is at 18.0 points and 8.2 assists, which puts her at 34.2 points accounted for per game -- a new season record.

According to https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/wnba/player?Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason (you have to select "Assists" under "Table Data" to see the assist statistics), Clark has assisted on 550 total points as of today (through game 30). She's scored 539 points.

550+539=1089.

1089/30=36.3.

[rmontro]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

Unlikely to impossible. Not that I think she really deserves it, she's still learning.
And given the politics of the situation, she'll be lucky to get ROTY, which I think she most certainly deserves.

[cupcakesnake]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

What could the case be for her over A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Jonquel and lots of others?

She has flashy boxscore stats, but her numbers don't hold up to scrutiny thanks to those turnovers. She's on a team that will probably end up .500.

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

[Ice Man]

Here is a stat that nobody is talking about. Entering this season, the record for points accounted for per game, meaning points scored + points created by assist, was set by Diana Tauresi in 2006. She scored 25.3 points per game and had 4.1 assists, for a total of 33.5 points accounted for (assuming 2 points per assist, as I have no way of counting the 3 point baskets on assists.

Clark currently is at 18.0 points and 8.2 assists, which puts her at 34.2 points accounted for per game -- a new season record.

According to https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/wnba/player?Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason (you have to select "Assists" under "Table Data" to see the assist statistics), Clark has assisted on 550 total points as of today (through game 30). She's scored 539 points.

550+539=1089.

1089/30=36.3.

I believe that your total for Clark is higher than mine because you include the extra point when the assist is on a 3 point shot. As I can't do that for Tauresi '06 (or at least I think I can't), I simplified the assist calculation to make it that every assist equals 2 points, so that I could make a fair comparison.

[Ice Man]

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

You can make a case for both. One, per the current conversation, she's likely going to account for more points than any other player in WNBA history, over a single season. Yes there are the TOs, but James Harden one year finished 2nd in the NBA MVP vote while making 5.7 TOs per game. So, there is precedent. And on wins, the Fever are going to finish about 7 games better than last year, with Clark being the only real lineup change.

Personally, I wouldn't put her on my Top 5 list for MVP. I would have (not necessarily in order( A'ja, Phee, Collier, Stewie, and Nneka or Ezi), but I don't think the idea is totally nuts.

[jc23]

She will be on an all-wnba team for sure.

[ellobo]

Here is a stat that nobody is talking about. Entering this season, the record for points accounted for per game, meaning points scored + points created by assist, was set by Diana Tauresi in 2006. She scored 25.3 points per game and had 4.1 assists, for a total of 33.5 points accounted for (assuming 2 points per assist, as I have no way of counting the 3 point baskets on assists.

Clark currently is at 18.0 points and 8.2 assists, which puts her at 34.2 points accounted for per game -- a new season record.

According to https://www.pbpstats.com/totals/wnba/player?Season=2024&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason (you have to select "Assists" under "Table Data" to see the assist statistics), Clark has assisted on 550 total points as of today (through game 30). She's scored 539 points.

550+539=1089.

1089/30=36.3.

I believe that your total for Clark is higher than mine because you include the extra point when the assist is on a 3 point shot. As I can't do that for Tauresi '06 (or at least I think I can't), I simplified the assist calculation to make it that every assist equals 2 points, so that I could make a fair comparison.

The pbpstats database only goes back to 2009. I don't know if the exact assist points numbers for 2006 are available somewhere else, or scrapable from game play by plays (or even if detailed play by plays were kept for those years). It definitely shows that Clark is having an all-time great point creation season, especially since Clark leads the league in unassisted points scored. However, it's hard to call something a fair comparison without the actual numbers.

[Ice Man]

especially since Clark leads the league in unassisted points scored

I did not know that, but it does not surprise me, because 1) she's not great at moving off the ball and 2) even if she were, who on her team could feed her?

It's quite the trifecta if you think about it -

1) The most blitzed player in the league
2) With the most unassisted points scored
3) And also the most assists

That's probably not been done before in either the NBA or WNBA, although that's just a guess, because the first two stats were not available until very recently.

[Ghetto Gospel]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

What could the case be for her over A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Jonquel and lots of others?

She has flashy boxscore stats, but her numbers don't hold up to scrutiny thanks to those turnovers. She's on a team that will probably end up .500.

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

i think top 3 is out but i think 4/5 could be in play depending on how she finishes the year. if we factor in how she's steadily improved throughout the season, in the 3rd quartile of the season (games 21-30) she's putting up 22/6/11, what she averages during this final stretch of the season could push her into bonkers numbers range. i feel like voters care more about offense than defense and have a more "what have you done for me lately" feel. i don't think she has been one of the top 5 players in the league, but she could get voted in as one.

[cupcakesnake]

Maybe I'm just too excited but could CC win MVP?

What could the case be for her over A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Jonquel and lots of others?

She has flashy boxscore stats, but her numbers don't hold up to scrutiny thanks to those turnovers. She's on a team that will probably end up .500.

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

i think top 3 is out but i think 4/5 could be in play depending on how she finishes the year. if we factor in how she's steadily improved throughout the season, in the 3rd quartile of the season (games 21-30) she's putting up 22/6/11, what she averages during this final stretch of the season could push her into bonkers numbers range. i feel like voters care more about offense than defense and have a more "what have you done for me lately" feel. i don't think she has been one of the top 5 players in the league, but she could get voted in as one.

I have no problem with CC getting on MVP ballots. Definitely a name to consider at those 4 or 5 spot. I actually think outside the top 2, the MVP cases are not very strong. Stewie and AT are both having statistically down years. All the New York players have the super team tax. The Aces other stars are struggling.

[Ghetto Gospel]

What could the case be for her over A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Jonquel and lots of others?

She has flashy boxscore stats, but her numbers don't hold up to scrutiny thanks to those turnovers. She's on a team that will probably end up .500.

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

i think top 3 is out but i think 4/5 could be in play depending on how she finishes the year. if we factor in how she's steadily improved throughout the season, in the 3rd quartile of the season (games 21-30) she's putting up 22/6/11, what she averages during this final stretch of the season could push her into bonkers numbers range. i feel like voters care more about offense than defense and have a more "what have you done for me lately" feel. i don't think she has been one of the top 5 players in the league, but she could get voted in as one.

I have no problem with CC getting on MVP ballots. Definitely a name to consider at those 4 or 5 spot. I actually think outside the top 2, the MVP cases are not very strong. Stewie and AT are both having statistically down years. All the New York players have the super team tax. The Aces other stars are struggling.

i think stewie has a better case than you give her credit for. she's clearly the best player on the best team and the advanced metrics that i've seen paint her as the third best player in the league on a per minute basis only behind aja and phee. that should be enough of a case to warrant some level of consideration if the voters are allergic to giving it to a player on a mediocre team.

[cupcakesnake]

i think top 3 is out but i think 4/5 could be in play depending on how she finishes the year. if we factor in how she's steadily improved throughout the season, in the 3rd quartile of the season (games 21-30) she's putting up 22/6/11, what she averages during this final stretch of the season could push her into bonkers numbers range. i feel like voters care more about offense than defense and have a more "what have you done for me lately" feel. i don't think she has been one of the top 5 players in the league, but she could get voted in as one.

I have no problem with CC getting on MVP ballots. Definitely a name to consider at those 4 or 5 spot. I actually think outside the top 2, the MVP cases are not very strong. Stewie and AT are both having statistically down years. All the New York players have the super team tax. The Aces other stars are struggling.

i think stewie has a better case than you give her credit for. she's clearly the best player on the best team and the advanced metrics that i've seen paint her as the third best player in the league on a per minute basis only behind aja and phee. that should be enough of a case to warrant some level of consideration if the voters are allergic to giving it to a player on a mediocre team.

Stewie is 3rd on my theoretical ballot.
I just think she's firmly 3rd and doesn't have a stronger case for 1 (this year), than Phee or A'ja.

[zimpy27]

What could the case be for her over A'ja, Phee, AT, Stewie, Jonquel and lots of others?

She has flashy boxscore stats, but her numbers don't hold up to scrutiny thanks to those turnovers. She's on a team that will probably end up .500.

How could a player not dominating statistically or with wins even get into the MVP conversation?

i think top 3 is out but i think 4/5 could be in play depending on how she finishes the year. if we factor in how she's steadily improved throughout the season, in the 3rd quartile of the season (games 21-30) she's putting up 22/6/11, what she averages during this final stretch of the season could push her into bonkers numbers range. i feel like voters care more about offense than defense and have a more "what have you done for me lately" feel. i don't think she has been one of the top 5 players in the league, but she could get voted in as one.

I have no problem with CC getting on MVP ballots. Definitely a name to consider at those 4 or 5 spot. I actually think outside the top 2, the MVP cases are not very strong. Stewie and AT are both having statistically down years. All the New York players have the super team tax. The Aces other stars are struggling.

Yeah I think A'ja, AT and Stewie are too far ahead.


But over last 17 games Clark has put up:
20ppg @61% TS
6.6rpg
10.2apg
1.4spg
0.8bpg
5.4topg
Fever are 11-6 in that time, that would be 4th in the league.

Over those 17 games I think she'd have an argument for MVP, so maybe next season is a chance.

[Ice Man]

But over last 17 games Clark has put up:
20ppg @61% TS
6.6rpg
10.2apg
1.4spg
0.8bpg
5.4topg
Fever are 11-6 in that time, that would be 4th in the league.

Over those 17 games I think she'd have an argument for MVP, so maybe next season is a chance.

Yes, that level of performance puts a player in the MVP discussion. But the 14 games before those take her out of contention, which is how things should be. Awards are for a full season.

A word on Clark's defense. It is widely denigrated, which I think is only half correct. There are games where she's quite bad. But other times, she is quite solid. Nobody was able to pick on her in either the Dream or Sun games. She kept her assignments in front of her, preventing drives to the rim, while collecting 3 steals and 2 blocks in those games. Solid defense. Indy won both games in part because they held each opponent to less than its season average, and Clark was a contributor to that.

I'm not her to just sell Clark. The Sun exposed her TO proclivities ... she looked like the rook she is when facing that level of defensive pressure. Just trying to paint the most accurate picture I can.

[Ghetto Gospel]

But over last 17 games Clark has put up:
20ppg @61% TS
6.6rpg
10.2apg
1.4spg
0.8bpg
5.4topg
Fever are 11-6 in that time, that would be 4th in the league.

Over those 17 games I think she'd have an argument for MVP, so maybe next season is a chance.

Yes, that level of performance puts a player in the MVP discussion. But the 14 games before those take her out of contention, which is how things should be. Awards are for a full season.

A word on Clark's defense. It is widely denigrated, which I think is only half correct. There are games where she's quite bad. But other times, she is quite solid. Nobody was able to pick on her in either the Dream or Sun games. She kept her assignments in front of her, preventing drives to the rim, while collecting 3 steals and 2 blocks in those games. Solid defense. Indy won both games in part because they held each opponent to less than its season average, and Clark was a contributor to that.

I'm not her to just sell Clark. The Sun exposed her TO proclivities ... she looked like the rook she is when facing that level of defensive pressure. Just trying to paint the most accurate picture I can.

i think her being a below-average defender should keep her out of these races.

the current MVP caliber frontrunners, aja, stewie and napheesa, are not only the best offensive players in the league, but also the best defensive players as well. i'm not sure that her offensive contributions can so heavily eclipse what the 3 mentioned are contributing on that end such that the defensive gap becomes voided.