WNBA expansion

[Green Chile]

Sophie Cunningham is not a fan of the expansion cities selected:
“You want to listen to your players, too. Where do they want to play? Where are they gonna get excited to play and draw fans?… don't know how excited people are to be going to Detroit or [Cleveland]."

Yikes.
I get that these people are famous and so they want to live in big markets and places that are glamorous, but this kind of entitlement isn’t a good look imo.
If Giannis can live in Milwaukee and learn to love the city, I’m sure these ladies will be alright in Detroit or Cleveland for half the year.
I mean hell, if it raises salaries it’s gotta be better than playing in Russia in the offseason right?
I don’t even think the league should care where players want to play tbh, at least not until they’re profitable.

Sophie is just there for the clicks.

An Indy player **** on Detroit and Cleveland is pretty rich.

We all know Sophie is just dicking around.

[Green Chile]

After a couple days thinking about it, something about this just doesn't sit right.
It's nothing to do with the cities or going to 18. Those things are fine.

It just feels rushed.
Not the rollout, obviously, some of this is 5 years away. The announcement and commitment to these cities/owners feels rushed.

Valkyries paid a $50M franchise fee. 2 years later, that fee jumped to $250M.
If you expect good things over the next few years, it would make sense to wait and see if they could get even more in a couple of years.

It just sort of feels like the current owners (also meaning the NBA), saw $750 million sitting on the table and said why not.

Maybe it's just a general mistrust of the NBA's handling of this league, and this is a pretty large influx of cash (40% of that 3/4 of a billion dollars goes straight to the NBA). It's obvious that these teams were always going to NBA owners, which can be fine (see Lacob), but it would seem plausible that the means maybe some better long-term potential ownership groups got overlooked. There's also the history of NBA owners not taking this league seriously and bailing.

Then you've got some of the current cheap W owners also getting a massive influx of cash (that they may be unlikely to re-invest into their teams).

I could be totally off-base.

But something about this just feels like it may be short-sighted thinking. The league is at such a critical moment, so any possibility of that seems concerning.

I could be totally off-base, but something about this doesn't feel right.

[hermes]

its very rushed

sounds like they have a long list of interested cities, so they were able to set a much higher entrance fee this time around. heck i think based on a comment i saw from the commissioner it wouldn't shock me if they weren't done. they should be for a while to see if this many teams this fast can work, but money talks

[ChiTown6rings]

The Caitlin Clark effect? Or was this bound to happen anyway?

I believe both. There were calls for expansion for about the last three seasons prior to CC. The league's talent pool was getting deeper and roster expansion wasn't a viable solution.

As far as the Caitlin Clark effect (and the draft class of 2024 to a lesser extent), we have witnessed a new excitement, a new investment into the league and the women's game itself. I'm loving it.

[DirtybirdGA]

Well, welcome Portland Fire

[zike_42]

https://www.wnba.com/news/introducing-the-portland-fire

I really like the logo, especially compared to the Tempo's terrible logo.

[cdubbz]

https://www.wnba.com/news/introducing-the-portland-fire

I really like the logo, especially compared to the Tempo's terrible logo.

Not bad. I like how they incorporated the rose to the design. They could have some cool gimmicks at the arena and cool jerseys too. The team can also get roasted hard if they're doing horrible lol.

[Doctor MJ]

https://www.wnba.com/news/introducing-the-portland-fire

I really like the logo, especially compared to the Tempo's terrible logo.

Not bad. I like how they incorporated the rose to the design. They could have some cool gimmicks at the arena and cool jerseys too. The team can also get roasted hard if they're doing horrible lol.

My exact thought, and I love it. I frankly find it annoying the way NBA logos generally have references to the literal ball, which is often a sign of an insecure minor league that feels it needs to make sure you know that this team you've never heard of playing basketball.

Honestly, I thought a rose-themed name would be great for Portland, but the oblique way they referenced it here is considerably more creative.

[DOT]

This is probably the better thread to talk about this in:

https://www.courant.com/2025/08/03/not-quite-at-the-finish-line-hartford-group-competing-with-boston-bid-to-keep-connecticut-sun-in-state/

So here's the numbers cited:

The Boston Globe reported that Pagliuca’s group will pay $325 million to purchase the Sun with plans to invest an additional $100 million to build the team a dedicated practice facility in Boston. The sale would be the largest in the history of women’s professional sports. The Mohegan Tribe spent approximately $10 million to relocate the franchise in 2003.

A source with knowledge of the negotiations told The Courant an investment group led by billionaire Marc Lasry, a former owner of the Milwaukee Bucks, is attempting to compete with Boston’s offer to keep the team in Connecticut with a home at PeoplesBank Arena in Hartford. The Hartford group’s bid also exceeds $300 million and includes plans to construct a new dedicated practice facility for the team. The Mohegan Tribe had a period of exclusivity to sell to the Boston group which has since expired, so both offers remain on the table.

While the buyer is still up in the air, a sale in the near future seems inevitable. Rizzotti said the Mohegan Tribe understands that it is struggling to compete with owners that have deeper pockets, particularly as multi-million dollar practice facilities become the standard around the league. Players are also entering the WNBA with larger fanbases and personal brands than ever before, and Rizzotti recognizes the difficulty in attracting young talent to the league’s smallest market.

“The tribe thought that Connecticut would be a great place for the WNBA, and they were right, and they invested in this team in so many different ways before it was popular,” Rizzotti said. “Have they gotten passed by? They know that in some ways … If you’re 22 coming out of college and you’re considering your brand and considering your opportunities in a major market, I don’t think it’s a slight on playing at Mohegan or in Connecticut, but I’m sure there’s a preference that they want to be in a market that’s bigger and where they’d be able to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.”

Essentially, the way it seems is, the Tribe can't afford to compete because they bought it for so low back in the day. They have casino money, but they don't have WNBA team money. It's also a pretty inconvenient location and a smaller stadium

So, the two offers seem to be, Boston for $325 million and the team gets a bonus $100 million practice facility or Hartford for at least $300 million also with a new dedicated practice facility, I assume for less than $100 million. It's not an insignificant difference, but it is competitive. The WNBA wants them to take the Hartford deal because it means they get to sell an expansion team to Boston potentially in a few years, and clearly the tribe isn't dead set on Boston as they let the exclusivity period expire which opened up another bid, potentially just to negotiate more from Boston

Here's the important bit to me though:

But the Sun have a passionate existing following in Connecticut, selling out of season tickets this year for the first time in franchise history despite the departure of all five starters from the 2024 roster. The team is also averaging its highest-ever annual attendance of 8,937 fans per game in 2025 amid a 5-22 start to the season.

The team sucks. It's in a bad location. And yet, people are still showing up to watch them

https://www.acrossthetimeline.com/wnba/attendance.html

They get higher attendance than Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta. Washington and Atlanta both have metro populations of over 6 million, and Dallas of over 8 million. Yet CT, with 3.5 million people in the entire state, is still outselling them despite being the worst team in the league

I know I'm biased, but Boston can kindly f*ck all the way off.

[DOT]

Also, side note, we got some state drama unfolding

Cause not only would the Sun move to Boston in that sale, they would also be playing multiple games per year in Providence, Rhode Island, cause the RI governor went to the guy buying them to get that in the deal

Now, I don't know how much y'all know or care about New England interstate politics, but I can tell you over in CT that's a massive slight to us. Cause RI knows they ain't getting a team for themselves, so they're trying to undercut us by taking our team away

Also, people here aren't taking it well that the governor of MA said she "doesn't want New England to have to wait that long" to get a team when CT is very much in New England

F*ck Boston.

[hermes]

https://www.acrossthetimeline.com/wnba/attendance.html

They get higher attendance than Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta. Washington and Atlanta both have metro populations of over 6 million, and Dallas of over 8 million. Yet CT, with 3.5 million people in the entire state, is still outselling them despite being the worst team in the league

not quite apples to apples, the arenas have significant size differences

connecicut: 9,323
dallas: 7,000
washington: 4,200
atlanta: 3,500

[DOT]

https://www.acrossthetimeline.com/wnba/attendance.html

They get higher attendance than Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta. Washington and Atlanta both have metro populations of over 6 million, and Dallas of over 8 million. Yet CT, with 3.5 million people in the entire state, is still outselling them despite being the worst team in the league

not quite apples to apples, the arenas have significant size differences

connecicut: 9,323
dallas: 7,000
washington: 4,200
atlanta: 3,500

Then the numbers on that website must be wrong, cause it has all 3 of Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta having a higher average attendance than what the arena max is (Dallas at 7,800 per game, Washington 5,400, and Atlanta 4,300)

Overall I think my point stands though. The Sun are drawing comparable crowds to the Lynx, who are not only one of the top teams in the league and a favorite to win, but they play in the 18,798 seating Target Center

My point is, despite all the negatives, the Sun are still really popular in CT compared to the rest of the league.

[ellobo]

https://www.acrossthetimeline.com/wnba/attendance.html

They get higher attendance than Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta. Washington and Atlanta both have metro populations of over 6 million, and Dallas of over 8 million. Yet CT, with 3.5 million people in the entire state, is still outselling them despite being the worst team in the league

not quite apples to apples, the arenas have significant size differences

connecicut: 9,323
dallas: 7,000
washington: 4,200
atlanta: 3,500

Then the numbers on that website must be wrong, cause it has all 3 of Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta having a higher average attendance than what the arena max is (Dallas at 7,800 per game, Washington 5,400, and Atlanta 4,300)

Overall I think my point stands though. The Sun are drawing comparable crowds to the Lynx, who are not only one of the top teams in the league and a favorite to win, but they play in the 18,798 seating Target Center

My point is, despite all the negatives, the Sun are still really popular in CT compared to the rest of the league.

Dallas, Washington, and Atlanta all move a number of high demand games to larger arenas than their normal home court. The Sun does it too, with their game at TD Garden this season. Dallas has played two games against Indiana at American Airlines arena, which drew 20,409 and 17,857. Washington has played three games at two different venues with 10-11,000 capacity, although I didn't look up the attendance, and has another scheduled. Atlanta has played one game at State Farm arena, which drew 17,575, and has another scheduled.

The Sun's 8,937 average attendance this year includes the game in Boston where they drew 19,156. If you take out that one game out of 15 home games so far, their average attendance drops to 8,384 (89.9% capacity).

This doesn't negate the point that fan support in CT is solid, but it explains the discrepancy between the capacity of the normal home arenas and average attendance, and adds a little context to the Sun's overall average home attendance.

[hermes]

when the caitlin clark roadshow comes into town, you move the game to a bigger venue

[DOT]

Okay, this is just a mess

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/08/05/wnba-frowns-on-new-bid-for-sun-by-hartford-group/

The WNBA is opposed to a second bid for the Connecticut Sun that would move the team to Hartford, sources said, as the league remains intent on directing the team to one of nine cities that lost out on expansion last month.

But sources insisted today that because Hartford — like Boston — did not apply for a franchise in the most recent round of expansion, the WNBA’s Board of Governors would almost certainly, as of now, vote against a relocation to either city.

Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont is expected to lobby NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to change his mind about Hartford in the coming days. But sources said the WNBA — which operates under Silver’s jurisdiction — is entrenched in active conversations with the nine cities who lost their bids for expansion teams, and the crux of those discussions is almost certainly relocation fees.

Like, I get the idea is to stick to the principle, but this is just being a dick about it. We're really comparing moving the team 47 minutes towards the middle of the state (which is where more of the people live) with moving it to a different state in a different market?

And they know Hartford would never be accepted as an expansion site if both Boston and New York had a team, so pretending like we should just happily lose our team and then go to the back of the line like that's a genuine way to do things is ludicrous

They're just saying no to say no at this point

I think this sums it up the best:

“The Tribe is mad that they can’t do what they want to do,” a source said.

[Green Chile]

Okay, this is just a mess

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/08/05/wnba-frowns-on-new-bid-for-sun-by-hartford-group/

The WNBA is opposed to a second bid for the Connecticut Sun that would move the team to Hartford, sources said, as the league remains intent on directing the team to one of nine cities that lost out on expansion last month.

But sources insisted today that because Hartford — like Boston — did not apply for a franchise in the most recent round of expansion, the WNBA’s Board of Governors would almost certainly, as of now, vote against a relocation to either city.

Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont is expected to lobby NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to change his mind about Hartford in the coming days. But sources said the WNBA — which operates under Silver’s jurisdiction — is entrenched in active conversations with the nine cities who lost their bids for expansion teams, and the crux of those discussions is almost certainly relocation fees.

Like, I get the idea is to stick to the principle, but this is just being a dick about it. We're really comparing moving the team 47 minutes towards the middle of the state (which is where more of the people live) with moving it to a different state in a different market?

And they know Hartford would never be accepted as an expansion site if both Boston and New York had a team, so pretending like we should just happily lose our team and then go to the back of the line like that's a genuine way to do things is ludicrous

They're just saying no to say no at this point

I think this sums it up the best:

“The Tribe is mad that they can’t do what they want to do,” a source said.

It's a bad look on the W (or the NBA pulling the strings) if they don't approve a Hartford or Boston deal.

After what the Mohegan Tribe has done for the WNBA, the autonomy to make this decision is the least the W could grant.

If the W thinks they are entitled to an expansion fee and the decision on who buys, they should have been the one's that bought the Miracle for $10 million when nobody else wanted them.

Mohegan made a fantastic investment, has done right by the league, and is still trying to do the right thing.

[DOT]

It's a bad look on the W (or the NBA pulling the strings) if they don't approve a Hartford or Boston deal.

After what the Mohegan Tribe has done for the WNBA, the autonomy to make this decision is the least the W could grant.

If the W thinks they are entitled to an expansion fee and the decision on who buys, they should have been the one's that bought the Miracle for $10 million when nobody else wanted them.

Mohegan made a fantastic investment, has done right by the league, and is still trying to do the right thing.

The current conspiracy theory is the W wanted Houston to get an expansion team, but they couldn't afford it, so they went to them behind the scenes and said they'd be able to buy the Sun for cheaper than it would cost to expand, but then Pagulica came in with a huge offer that the W wasn't expecting to be made and now they're still trying to force the tribe to sell to Houston even though both Hartford and Boston are offering way more (both are over $300 million, with Boston specifically being $325 million, and we know Houston lost their expansion bid because they were offering below $200 million)

It's a bad look for the league if the Sun end up outside of New England. Especially cause women's basketball is big here and the next potential expansion isn't til at least 2035, so leaving the area for that long is a terrible idea

Also, if they tell the tribe they have to take a significantly reduced offer, that's an instant lawsuit

It's just a mess. If the logic was both Boston and Hartford are offering comparable deals and the league was pushing for Hartford because they want a Boston expansion, that would make at least some sense and selfishly that's what I want, but what they're doing now makes no sense from any angle.

[MrDollarBills]

Okay, this is just a mess

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/08/05/wnba-frowns-on-new-bid-for-sun-by-hartford-group/

The WNBA is opposed to a second bid for the Connecticut Sun that would move the team to Hartford, sources said, as the league remains intent on directing the team to one of nine cities that lost out on expansion last month.

But sources insisted today that because Hartford — like Boston — did not apply for a franchise in the most recent round of expansion, the WNBA’s Board of Governors would almost certainly, as of now, vote against a relocation to either city.

Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont is expected to lobby NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to change his mind about Hartford in the coming days. But sources said the WNBA — which operates under Silver’s jurisdiction — is entrenched in active conversations with the nine cities who lost their bids for expansion teams, and the crux of those discussions is almost certainly relocation fees.

Like, I get the idea is to stick to the principle, but this is just being a dick about it. We're really comparing moving the team 47 minutes towards the middle of the state (which is where more of the people live) with moving it to a different state in a different market?

And they know Hartford would never be accepted as an expansion site if both Boston and New York had a team, so pretending like we should just happily lose our team and then go to the back of the line like that's a genuine way to do things is ludicrous

They're just saying no to say no at this point

I think this sums it up the best:

“The Tribe is mad that they can’t do what they want to do,” a source said.

I don't understand why the league is against a bid to move the team to a better location within CT. Keep the existing fans and you increase revenue and asses in seats by moving to Hartford.

The Nets pretty much destroyed themselves when they moved to Brooklyn in terms of fan support. It's not easy to build a fanbase in a new state. The Liberty's fan support versus the Nets is like night and day and they play in the same building.

Now if there wasn't a bid to move to Hartford, obviously you have to weigh the options because unfortunately the Tribe just doesn't have the resources to support the Sun now.

But if there is a legit in state option, then why not hear the bid?

The game at TD Center versus the Fever was not something I'd bank my money on as a reason why the Sun should move to Boston.

[DOT]

I don't understand why the league is against a bid to move the team to a better location within CT. Keep the existing fans and you increase revenue and asses in seats by moving to Hartford.

The Nets pretty much destroyed themselves when they moved to Brooklyn in terms of fan support. It's not easy to build a fanbase in a new state. The Liberty's fan support versus the Nets is like night and day and they play in the same building.

Now if there wasn't a bid to move to Hartford, obviously you have to weigh the options because unfortunately the Tribe just doesn't have the resources to support the Sun now.

But if there is a legit in state option, then why not hear the bid?

The game at TD Center versus the Fever was not something I'd bank my money on as a reason why the Sun should move to Boston.

It would make sense if they were leaning on the tribe to accept one of Boston or Hartford's offers, I could see the argument either way, but them more or less saying they don't want the tribe to take either option makes no damn sense unless the Houston thing I mentioned is real.

[hermes]

why would the league be so set on having a team in houston?