RealGM

https://old.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1fx5yi5/wnba_2024_obpm_and_dbpm/

Link to be found here, I know this isnt available on bballref for the time being so im glad someone rose to the challenge to calculate it

What's your biggest takeaways here, which players does BPM undervalue and overvalue the most, and who fits like a glove.

Note: this is the older version of BPM

RSCD3_ wrote:https://old.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1fx5yi5/wnba_2024_obpm_and_dbpm/

Link to be found here, I know this isnt available on bballref for the time being so im glad someone rose to the challenge to calculate it

What's your biggest takeaways here, which players does BPM undervalue and overvalue the most, and who fits like a glove.

Note: this is the older version of BPM

I'm shocked that both Ionescu and Lainey-Hamilton posted negative defensive numbers

AT, Phee, Ezi, and Alanna being the top 4 defenders works for me.

MrDollarBills wrote:

RSCD3_ wrote:https://old.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1fx5yi5/wnba_2024_obpm_and_dbpm/

Link to be found here, I know this isnt available on bballref for the time being so im glad someone rose to the challenge to calculate it

What's your biggest takeaways here, which players does BPM undervalue and overvalue the most, and who fits like a glove.

Note: this is the older version of BPM

I'm shocked that both Ionescu and Lainey-Hamilton posted negative defensive numbers

I know Sabrina had a brutally bad defensive on/off that was completely offset by her monstrously good offensive on/off. The Liberty outscored opponents by 11 points per 100 with both Sabrina and non-Sab lineups, but with her on they were a mega offense and poor defense, and the opposite when she sat. Funny to have such a transformational swing go in both ways.

Betnijah's defensive on/off was completely neutral (huge plus on offense) so I wonder where she's losing points in that calculation. I'm not finding a bad defensive Betnijah lineup. She is only a slight negative (-0.3) so it might be a matter of New York simply having plenty of solid defensive lineups without her. Stewie and Jonquel do more anchoring.

cupcakesnake wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

RSCD3_ wrote:https://old.reddit.com/r/wnba/comments/1fx5yi5/wnba_2024_obpm_and_dbpm/

Link to be found here, I know this isnt available on bballref for the time being so im glad someone rose to the challenge to calculate it

What's your biggest takeaways here, which players does BPM undervalue and overvalue the most, and who fits like a glove.

Note: this is the older version of BPM

I'm shocked that both Ionescu and Lainey-Hamilton posted negative defensive numbers

I know Sabrina had a brutally bad defensive on/off that was completely offset by her monstrously good offensive on/off. The Liberty outscored opponents by 11 points per 100 with both Sabrina and non-Sab lineups, but with her on they were a mega offense and poor defense, and the opposite when she sat. Funny to have such a transformational swing go in both ways.

Betnijah's defensive on/off was completely neutral (huge plus on offense) so I wonder where she's losing points in that calculation. I'm not finding a bad defensive Betnijah lineup. She is only a slight negative (-0.3) so it might be a matter of New York simply having plenty of solid defensive lineups without her. Stewie and Jonquel do more anchoring.

Jeez and here i thought Sabrina's defense had improved I guess that's why we have the data, because the eye test failed me.

I was going to say, Betnijah's defense has been one of our best features. But yeah in terms of defense, Stewie and Jonquel have held us down all season. Stewie just does all of the dirty work inside and out.

Thanks for doing a bit of digging here

MrDollarBills wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:
I'm shocked that both Ionescu and Lainey-Hamilton posted negative defensive numbers

I know Sabrina had a brutally bad defensive on/off that was completely offset by her monstrously good offensive on/off. The Liberty outscored opponents by 11 points per 100 with both Sabrina and non-Sab lineups, but with her on they were a mega offense and poor defense, and the opposite when she sat. Funny to have such a transformational swing go in both ways.

Betnijah's defensive on/off was completely neutral (huge plus on offense) so I wonder where she's losing points in that calculation. I'm not finding a bad defensive Betnijah lineup. She is only a slight negative (-0.3) so it might be a matter of New York simply having plenty of solid defensive lineups without her. Stewie and Jonquel do more anchoring.

Jeez and here i thought Sabrina's defense had improved I guess that's why we have the data, because the eye test failed me.

I was going to say, Betnijah's defense has been one of our best features. But yeah in terms of defense, Stewie and Jonquel have held us down all season. Stewie just does all of the dirty work inside and out.

Thanks for doing a bit of digging here

Her defense has improved! It's not like the numbers say she's awful, just still below average.

Last year Sab was someone offenses could attack pretty relentlessly. The Liberty's undoing was having multiple backcourt defensive liabilities. Sabrina seems smarter, stronger, and more consistent with her effort this year. She's not an amazing defensive athlete, and I don't think she'll ever be amazing on defense. Exiting the liability zone is HUGE though.

cupcakesnake wrote:

MrDollarBills wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:
I know Sabrina had a brutally bad defensive on/off that was completely offset by her monstrously good offensive on/off. The Liberty outscored opponents by 11 points per 100 with both Sabrina and non-Sab lineups, but with her on they were a mega offense and poor defense, and the opposite when she sat. Funny to have such a transformational swing go in both ways.

Betnijah's defensive on/off was completely neutral (huge plus on offense) so I wonder where she's losing points in that calculation. I'm not finding a bad defensive Betnijah lineup. She is only a slight negative (-0.3) so it might be a matter of New York simply having plenty of solid defensive lineups without her. Stewie and Jonquel do more anchoring.

Jeez and here i thought Sabrina's defense had improved I guess that's why we have the data, because the eye test failed me.

I was going to say, Betnijah's defense has been one of our best features. But yeah in terms of defense, Stewie and Jonquel have held us down all season. Stewie just does all of the dirty work inside and out.

Thanks for doing a bit of digging here

Her defense has improved! It's not like the numbers say she's awful, just still below average.

Last year Sab was someone offenses could attack pretty relentlessly. The Liberty's undoing was having multiple backcourt defensive liabilities. Sabrina seems smarter, stronger, and more consistent with her effort this year. She's not an amazing defensive athlete, and I don't think she'll ever be amazing on defense. Exiting the liability zone is HUGE though.

Good point I didn't think of it that way.

How you framed it does match the eyeball test. She's not some lock down defender but she's not an automatic score either.

She's reached prime Steph levels of defense

It took me a long time but I did want to get to this post. First, thanks for posting the numbers! Then some thoughts -

1) I had not realized that VORP and BAPM overlapped so much. With rare exception, they rank the players very similarly.

2) Here are first the MVP placements and then the VORP rankings of the top 5 MVP candidates -

Aja 1, 1
Phee 2, 4
Stewie 3, 2
Clark 4, 9
Thomas 3, 5

No real surprises. I think we all knew that Clark doesn''t score as well on such measures, partly because of the TOs and partly because the WNBA is such a hig players' league. I also think that the score ultimately supports Clark's selection, because she was the highest rated guard in the league on VORP, with Sabrina slightly behind her and then nobody else close.

3) If you believe these measures, the Fever will benefit by letting Kelsey Mitchell go, because she's the worst defender in the league among starters. Much worse than Clark. (Basically, the Fever stats say keep Clark & Boston and then find 10 new players to surround them.)