Why does the W insist on going against the NFL?

[CIN-C-STAR]

I know it’s been discussed in the past, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because it just seems like such a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
Why has every round of the playoffs, including tonight’s Finals, opened against the NFL broadcast schedule, on either a Sunday or Thursday??
We can’t get a game 1 on a Friday or Saturday?
Wouldn’t it help viewership
Immensely to get people hooked on a series with the opening game??

[Green Chile]

AFAIK, it's only an issue in Olympic years (season is normally done before the NFL starts).

In an Olympic year, I'm just not sure there are better options. Sunday's and Thursday's are big TV days. Doesn't seem like a crazy choice when presented with no perfect options.

Certainly not egregious or "stupid". Ratings are way up even going toe to toe with the NFL.

As someone that gets up at 3:00 every morning, I Iove that that they let it ride on Sunday afternoons. Sundays are about the only time I can really watch full games live. And it's easy to watch on a couple screens alongside the NFL. A 4 hour NFL game has about 30 minutes of actual action.

[Green Chile]

And for Thursday night, it's an easy choice.

Prime sucks for sports.

For the NFL and WNBA both, unless it's one hell of an amazing must-see matchup, I'm happy to not have to deal with Prime on a Thursday night.

For those that want to watch a traditionally terrible Thursday night football game on a terrible platform, they can do that.

But for others, they can just watch an awesome basketball game on ESPN.

[Green Chile]

Sorry, this has just reminded me of all the reasons I hate Thurday NFL on Prime.

The "previous channel" button was basically invented for NFL games. To watch one single NFL game (without the TIcket or even having both a CBS and a FOX game), you need to have a plan for the 80% of the game that is commercials and punts.

For us old farts, the previous channel button was a godsend. Sunday and Monday night? You can watch all sorts of other things in between the sparse NFL action. There's a reason all that crap our wives love is on Sunday and Monday night.

To put Thursday Night Football on a separate, horrible platform where the "previous channel" button will not save you is just a slap in the face.

Sorry. That ends my rant.

[Sealab2024]

Thursday night football sucks as a product both on and off the field. Sundays you have a point.

[Doctor MJ]

I know it’s been discussed in the past, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because it just seems like such a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
Why has every round of the playoffs, including tonight’s Finals, opened against the NFL broadcast schedule, on either a Sunday or Thursday??
We can’t get a game 1 on a Friday or Saturday?
Wouldn’t it help viewership
Immensely to get people hooked on a series with the opening game??

Good questions.

I think the big thing here is this: The WNBA's schedule was never about maximizing WNBA viewership, but instead about allowing the NBA to take up more oxygen in the sports landscape during the off-season. One of many aspects of why it was never fair to judge the WNBA based on profit, because it was always run in a way no independent league would run.

Tangent: Basketball is traditionally a winter sport, because of its origin as a gym sport. The idea was to give young folks something athletic to do when they couldn't play baseball or football outside. In fact, one factor in why basketball ended up being a 5-player sport was that it was intended to allow larger teams from other sports to divide up and play against each other...whereas the original 9-player plan of Naismith's was too big for that.

So when the NBA made the WNBA a summer league, this went against all basketball tradition - men's or women's.

Re: days of the week. It's a great question. The WNBA finals was clearly chosen to be oriented around Sundays above other days of the week, and it's hardly a given that that's the wise move. I'm no expert on it but I will say:

Avoiding NFL Sunday to play on Saturday means playing on NCAA Saturday which might be worse than going up against the NFL, particularly for a pro league like the W which is still drifted on the popularity of NCAAW basketball.

As for Friday, we should note that Game 4 will be on a Friday, so they clearly aren't avoiding that. They appear to have decided to give a 3 day break between Games 1 & 2 but a 2 day between 4 & 5. Seems odd, and makes me wonder if there are compromises going on here between the WNBA and their venues. We know such compromises affect the NBA, so of course they must with the W, but in the NBA I don't believe those compromises end up changing the playoff schedule - just the regular season.

[MrDollarBills]

Thursday night football sucks as a product both on and off the field. Sundays you have a point.

And even then on Sundays, the numbers weren't bad for these games.

[MrDollarBills]

I actually questioned this too but I found myself watching the WNBA games over NFL games on Sundays and will do the same tonight.

[Sealab2024]

I know it’s been discussed in the past, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because it just seems like such a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
Why has every round of the playoffs, including tonight’s Finals, opened against the NFL broadcast schedule, on either a Sunday or Thursday??
We can’t get a game 1 on a Friday or Saturday?
Wouldn’t it help viewership
Immensely to get people hooked on a series with the opening game??

Good questions.

I think the big thing here is this: The WNBA's schedule was never about maximizing WNBA viewership, but instead about allowing the NBA to take up more oxygen in the sports landscape during the off-season. One of many aspects of why it was never fair to judge the WNBA based on profit, because it was always run in a way no independent league would run.

Tangent: Basketball is traditionally a winter sport, because of its origin as a gym sport. The idea was to give young folks something athletic to do when they couldn't play baseball or football outside. In fact, one factor in why basketball ended up being a 5-player sport was that it was intended to allow larger teams from other sports to divide up and play against each other...whereas the original 9-player plan of Naismith's was too big for that.

So when the NBA made the WNBA a summer league, this went against all basketball tradition - men's or women's.

Re: days of the week. It's a great question. The WNBA finals was clearly chosen to be oriented around Sundays above other days of the week, and it's hardly a given that that's the wise move. I'm no expert on it but I will say:

Avoiding NFL Sunday to play on Saturday means playing on NCAA Saturday which might be worse than going up against the NFL, particularly for a pro league like the W which is still drifted on the popularity of NCAAW basketball.

As for Friday, we should note that Game 4 will be on a Friday, so they clearly aren't avoiding that. They appear to have decided to give a 3 day break between Games 1 & 2 but a 2 day between 4 & 5. Seems odd, and makes me wonder if there are compromises going on here between the WNBA and their venues. We know such compromises affect the NBA, so of course they must with the W, but in the NBA I don't believe those compromises end up changing the playoff schedule - just the regular season.

Which is why it makes even more sense to run the franchises like Glenn Taylor has (and I kind of threw up in my mouth complimenting Glenn, but he deserves it as far as the lynx are concerned). He owns both teams, they use the same staff, the same equipment, the same building, etc. Whatever costs could be minimized through cooperation between franchises were. They even use the same colors. Taylor runs the entire thing like a year round sports entertainment company. The WNBA gives him event dates during the summer that even if they only sell 5,000 tickets is still a profit considering the other option is generally nothing going on in the arena.

As you said the WNBA is not its own thing. It's a part of the NBA and ought to be treated like it. The Lynx have pretty much been profitable since 2010 because they are.

[Doctor MJ]

I know it’s been discussed in the past, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because it just seems like such a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
Why has every round of the playoffs, including tonight’s Finals, opened against the NFL broadcast schedule, on either a Sunday or Thursday??
We can’t get a game 1 on a Friday or Saturday?
Wouldn’t it help viewership
Immensely to get people hooked on a series with the opening game??

Good questions.

I think the big thing here is this: The WNBA's schedule was never about maximizing WNBA viewership, but instead about allowing the NBA to take up more oxygen in the sports landscape during the off-season. One of many aspects of why it was never fair to judge the WNBA based on profit, because it was always run in a way no independent league would run.

Tangent: Basketball is traditionally a winter sport, because of its origin as a gym sport. The idea was to give young folks something athletic to do when they couldn't play baseball or football outside. In fact, one factor in why basketball ended up being a 5-player sport was that it was intended to allow larger teams from other sports to divide up and play against each other...whereas the original 9-player plan of Naismith's was too big for that.

So when the NBA made the WNBA a summer league, this went against all basketball tradition - men's or women's.

Re: days of the week. It's a great question. The WNBA finals was clearly chosen to be oriented around Sundays above other days of the week, and it's hardly a given that that's the wise move. I'm no expert on it but I will say:

Avoiding NFL Sunday to play on Saturday means playing on NCAA Saturday which might be worse than going up against the NFL, particularly for a pro league like the W which is still drifted on the popularity of NCAAW basketball.

As for Friday, we should note that Game 4 will be on a Friday, so they clearly aren't avoiding that. They appear to have decided to give a 3 day break between Games 1 & 2 but a 2 day between 4 & 5. Seems odd, and makes me wonder if there are compromises going on here between the WNBA and their venues. We know such compromises affect the NBA, so of course they must with the W, but in the NBA I don't believe those compromises end up changing the playoff schedule - just the regular season.

Which is why it makes even more sense to run it like Glenn Taylor has (and I kind of threw up in my mouth complimenting Glenn, but he deserves it as far as the lynx are concerned). He owns both teams, they use the same staff, the same equipment, the same building, etc. Whatever costs could minimized through cooperation between franchises were. They even use the same colors. Taylor runs the entire thing like a year round sports entertainment company. The WNBA gives him event dates during the summer that even if they only sell 5,000 tickets is still a profit considering the other option is generally nothing going on in the arena.

As you said the WNBA is not its own thing. It's a part of the NBA and ought to be treated like it. The Lynx have pretty much been profitable since 2010 because they are.

Excellent points generally and I think we've got to add:

For all the criticisms we have for Taylor for the Wolves, we have to give him some credit for the Lynx having now a strong case for being the GOAT WNBA franchise: Prior to this season they were tied with most Championships (4) and stood alone with most Finals appearances (6).

[DonaldSanders]

I actually questioned this too but I found myself watching the WNBA games over NFL games on Sundays and will do the same tonight.

Yeah I am less into NFL than ever. I'd be doing the same if my 49ers weren't playing tonight -- I don't really watch non 49er games anymore unless it's the playoffs or just catching a close game at the very end. Luckily I'll just watch the game on League Pass after the fact.

I'm fine with a Sunday game, but I think it's a bit confusing not to make it an evening game. A lot of people will watch their favorite NFL team with it starting at the end of the early games and going into the beginning of the next set. Going for an evening slot would only pit them against one NFL game.

[hermes]

how many people watch nothing but the nfl on sundays? can't be that many, most probably just watch their own teams

i try and make sure to catch every vikings game but i haven't watched an nfl game that didn't involve the vikings in more than a decade. outside of the super bowl, but i haven't even seen the super bowl in half a dozen years.

but my fandom has evolved to a point where i only watch the teams i like and nothing else in all sports. just have enough other stuff i want to do that i don't want to spend a whole day watching football games i mostly don't care about

[MrDollarBills]

I actually questioned this too but I found myself watching the WNBA games over NFL games on Sundays and will do the same tonight.

Yeah I am less into NFL than ever. I'd be doing the same if my 49ers weren't playing tonight -- I don't really watch non 49er games anymore unless it's the playoffs or just catching a close game at the very end. Luckily I'll just watch the game on League Pass after the fact.

I'm fine with a Sunday game, but I think it's a bit confusing not to make it an evening game. A lot of people will watch their favorite NFL team with it starting at the end of the early games and going into the beginning of the next set. Going for an evening slot would only pit them against one NFL game.

The Sunday night match up draws a massive audience so honestly it's probably easier to draw people who are actually interested in the WNBA or are flipping around in between commercials/lull periods where nothing is happening on Redzone and the earlier games.

It's not really ideal and I would love for the league to carve out a day of the week that they put premiere players on prime time television without any hardcore competitors.

[MrDollarBills]

I know it’s been discussed in the past, but I’m going to keep bringing it up because it just seems like such a stupid, self-inflicted wound.
Why has every round of the playoffs, including tonight’s Finals, opened against the NFL broadcast schedule, on either a Sunday or Thursday??
We can’t get a game 1 on a Friday or Saturday?
Wouldn’t it help viewership
Immensely to get people hooked on a series with the opening game??

Good questions.

I think the big thing here is this: The WNBA's schedule was never about maximizing WNBA viewership, but instead about allowing the NBA to take up more oxygen in the sports landscape during the off-season. One of many aspects of why it was never fair to judge the WNBA based on profit, because it was always run in a way no independent league would run.

Tangent: Basketball is traditionally a winter sport, because of its origin as a gym sport. The idea was to give young folks something athletic to do when they couldn't play baseball or football outside. In fact, one factor in why basketball ended up being a 5-player sport was that it was intended to allow larger teams from other sports to divide up and play against each other...whereas the original 9-player plan of Naismith's was too big for that.

So when the NBA made the WNBA a summer league, this went against all basketball tradition - men's or women's.

Re: days of the week. It's a great question. The WNBA finals was clearly chosen to be oriented around Sundays above other days of the week, and it's hardly a given that that's the wise move. I'm no expert on it but I will say:

Avoiding NFL Sunday to play on Saturday means playing on NCAA Saturday which might be worse than going up against the NFL, particularly for a pro league like the W which is still drifted on the popularity of NCAAW basketball.

As for Friday, we should note that Game 4 will be on a Friday, so they clearly aren't avoiding that. They appear to have decided to give a 3 day break between Games 1 & 2 but a 2 day between 4 & 5. Seems odd, and makes me wonder if there are compromises going on here between the WNBA and their venues. We know such compromises affect the NBA, so of course they must with the W, but in the NBA I don't believe those compromises end up changing the playoff schedule - just the regular season.

Which is why it makes even more sense to run the franchises like Glenn Taylor has (and I kind of threw up in my mouth complimenting Glenn, but he deserves it as far as the lynx are concerned). He owns both teams, they use the same staff, the same equipment, the same building, etc. Whatever costs could be minimized through cooperation between franchises were. They even use the same colors. Taylor runs the entire thing like a year round sports entertainment company. The WNBA gives him event dates during the summer that even if they only sell 5,000 tickets is still a profit considering the other option is generally nothing going on in the arena.

As you said the WNBA is not its own thing. It's a part of the NBA and ought to be treated like it. The Lynx have pretty much been profitable since 2010 because they are.

I like this. Why pretend that the NBA and WNBA are two separate entities. They're not.

Pairing each team with an NBA club reduces expenses by a lot. Sharing practice facilities and arenas is probably a way better idea than having teams playing in places with less than 10k seats and practicing in some YMCA or whatever

As much as I loathe the owners of the Brooklyn Nets, I'd be a liar if I didn't admit that the Liberty are reaping the benefits of being their sister club.

[dockingsched]

My understanding was always that they’ve never been a top priority for arena booking and had to get whatever dates were available around whatever concert or event an arena had going.

[Ghetto Gospel]

how many people watch nothing but the nfl on sundays? can't be that many, most probably just watch their own teams

i try and make sure to catch every vikings game but i haven't watched an nfl game that didn't involve the vikings in more than a decade. outside of the super bowl, but i haven't even seen the super bowl in half a dozen years.

but my fandom has evolved to a point where i only watch the teams i like and nothing else in all sports. just have enough other stuff i want to do that i don't want to spend a whole day watching football games i mostly don't care about

personally, if i had nothing better to do on a particular sunday, i have a game on the tv on at all timeslots so long as there's a decent game on. last sunday, i have it on the entire day

[CIN-C-STAR]

My understanding was always that they’ve never been a top priority for arena booking and had to get whatever dates were available around whatever concert or event an arena had going.

That makes sense, especially regarding the afternoon Sunday games so they could also book the arena for Sunday night.
Thanks!