RealGM

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA


These sources seem to point at what a lot of people on the outside already believe. Gotta do a better job of prioritizing Cardoso.

dockingsched wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA


These sources seem to point at what a lot of people on the outside already believe. Gotta do a better job of prioritizing Cardoso.

Is she ready for it? She wasn't last year.

are WNBA coaches on guaranteed contracts? is tspoon getting paid regardless or whether or not she's the coach?

wojoaderge wrote:

dockingsched wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA


These sources seem to point at what a lot of people on the outside already believe. Gotta do a better job of prioritizing Cardoso.

Is she ready for it? She wasn't last year.

I mean, Reese had a fg% under 40% and they would at times force feed her the ball like she was prime Kevin McHale.
I definitely think they could’ve done a better job helping a rookie coming off injury. At the least they need to see what they got. They weren’t even a playoff team anyway.

CIN-C-STAR wrote:

wojoaderge wrote:

dockingsched wrote:

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=AtPRYYXAIqrFGO95b7YfIA


These sources seem to point at what a lot of people on the outside already believe. Gotta do a better job of prioritizing Cardoso.

Is she ready for it? She wasn't last year.

I mean, Reese had a fg% under 40% and they would at times force feed her the ball like she was prime Kevin McHale.
I definitely think they could’ve done a better job helping a rookie coming off injury. At the least they need to see what they got. They weren’t even a playoff team anyway.

1. Reese would actually shoot the ball when she got it
2. The perimeter players were terrible at feeding the post
3. I'm sorry I responded, won't make that mistake again

Chicago needs an entire overhaul starting from the top down.

I didn't like how Cardoso was used, especially earlier in the year. I know she was coming back from injury and there was some ramp-up, but it didn't look like optimal use of her. I'm mainly a Cardoso fan in terms of this team, so maybe I'm biased but that's what I saw. I'm excited to see how the Sky develop with a different coach, as they are a fun team to watch.

DonaldSanders wrote:I didn't like how Cardoso was used, especially earlier in the year. I know she was coming back from injury and there was some ramp-up, but it didn't look like optimal use of her. I'm mainly a Cardoso fan in terms of this team, so maybe I'm biased but that's what I saw. I'm excited to see how the Sky develop with a different coach, as they are a fun team to watch.

They need a true PG and a 3 + D wing.

Angel needs to leave the offensive post to Cardoso and work on her three and mid range shot. I would not force feed her like that when you have Cardoso right there

I'm sympathetic to Weatherspoon and thought she deserved another year based on:
1. It only being her first year.
2. Overachieving when healthy with a very flawed roster. And they were never REALLY healthy since Elizabeth Williams got hurt as soon as Cardoso came back.
3. Turned Chennedy Carter into a functioning professional.
4. Presided over Angel Reese's successful transition to the WNBA, beyond expectations (FG% notwithstanding).
5. Good will (from me, at least) for her playing career and personality.

That being said, I do think Cardoso's development under Weatherspoon was a concern. Cardoso is super talented, physically and in terms of her skills in the post, scoring and passing. However, Cardoso also has a naturally passive personality and needs to really be coached up into being aggressive and assertive, and her team needs to be coached up to play through her because she feeds off her teammates showing that confidence in her.

But I don't think Weatherspoon mishandled Cardoso to the degree of being fired over it, and on the whole, given talent, roster construction, and health, she didn't underachieve and actually overachieved, if anything.

ellobo wrote:I'm sympathetic to Weatherspoon and thought she deserved another year based on:
1. It only being her first year.
2. Overachieving when healthy with a very flawed roster. And they were never REALLY healthy since Elizabeth Williams got hurt as soon as Cardoso came back.
3. Turned Chennedy Carter into a functioning professional.
4. Presided over Angel Reese's successful transition to the WNBA, beyond expectations (FG% notwithstanding).
5. Good will (from me, at least) for her playing career and personality.

That being said, I do think Cardoso's development under Weatherspoon was a concern. Cardoso is super talented, physically and in terms of her skills in the post, scoring and passing. However, Cardoso also has a naturally passive personality and needs to really be coached up into being aggressive and assertive, and her team needs to be coached up to play through her because she feeds off her teammates showing that confidence in her.

But I don't think Weatherspoon mishandled Cardoso to the degree of being fired over it, and on the whole, given talent, roster construction, and health, she didn't underachieve and actually overachieved, if anything.

Well put.

Cardoso's early injury didn't help. It was already an interesting roster construction, but with E-Will and Cardoso being hurt early, suddenly, you've got a team that's winning games led by Reese and Chennedy, which nobody would've expected.

All the guards struggled early, except for Chennedy and LA. Seems like the for the 1st 10 games, they'd get down double-digits in the first quarter, then bring Chennedy and LA in to make a game of it.

It was, and continued to be, hard finding the right rotations.
Add in Diamond and Izzy both working their way back from injury.

It was a mess with players coming back from injury, getting hurt, Dana struggled early, Mabrey wasn't great early.

In the midst of all this, you've got Chennedy and Angel both wildly exceeding expectations. Nobody would've predicted this team would be making a playoff push led by them.

You're a rookie coach. It's all a mess, and you've suddenly got these 2 out of nowhere dominating.
It wasn't always pretty, but she leaned into that, which makes sense. And then they both got hurt/sick.

Not perfect, but it was a disjointed season where she seemed to get the most out of a lot of players. And Cardoso was starting to flash late in the season.

A full off-season and another year with Cardoso, Angel, E-Will, Chennedy and whoever they keep (and draft), and I think she could have done some special things.

IMO, she easily earned the opportunity to try that.

Green Chile wrote:

ellobo wrote:I'm sympathetic to Weatherspoon and thought she deserved another year based on:
1. It only being her first year.
2. Overachieving when healthy with a very flawed roster. And they were never REALLY healthy since Elizabeth Williams got hurt as soon as Cardoso came back.
3. Turned Chennedy Carter into a functioning professional.
4. Presided over Angel Reese's successful transition to the WNBA, beyond expectations (FG% notwithstanding).
5. Good will (from me, at least) for her playing career and personality.

That being said, I do think Cardoso's development under Weatherspoon was a concern. Cardoso is super talented, physically and in terms of her skills in the post, scoring and passing. However, Cardoso also has a naturally passive personality and needs to really be coached up into being aggressive and assertive, and her team needs to be coached up to play through her because she feeds off her teammates showing that confidence in her.

But I don't think Weatherspoon mishandled Cardoso to the degree of being fired over it, and on the whole, given talent, roster construction, and health, she didn't underachieve and actually overachieved, if anything.

Well put.

Cardoso's early injury didn't help. It was already an interesting roster construction, but with E-Will and Cardoso being hurt early, suddenly, you've got a team that's winning games led by Reese and Chennedy, which nobody would've expected.

All the guards struggled early, except for Chennedy and LA. Seems like the for the 1st 10 games, they'd get down double-digits in the first quarter, then bring Chennedy and LA in to make a game of it.

It was, and continued to be, hard finding the right rotations.
Add in Diamond and Izzy both working their way back from injury.

It was a mess with players coming back from injury, getting hurt, Dana struggled early, Mabrey wasn't great early.

In the midst of all this, you've got Chennedy and Angel both wildly exceeding expectations. Nobody would've predicted this team would be making a playoff push led by them.

You're a rookie coach. It's all a mess, and you've suddenly got these 2 out of nowhere dominating.
It wasn't always pretty, but she leaned into that, which makes sense. And then they both got hurt/sick.

Not perfect, but it was a disjointed season where she seemed to get the most out of a lot of players. And Cardoso was starting to flash late in the season.

A full off-season and another year with Cardoso, Angel, E-Will, Chennedy and whoever they keep (and draft), and I think she could have done some special things.

IMO, she easily earned the opportunity to try that.

I just realized I didn't even mention trading Mabrey. That's a move you only make if you don't care about winning games this year and holding on to a playoff spot. If you do that trade, it looks like you're taking your coach off the hook for not winning and/or backing your coach over a disgruntled player. Or you already decided to move on from both player and coach. Or you just don't know what you're doing.

ellobo wrote:

Green Chile wrote:

ellobo wrote:I'm sympathetic to Weatherspoon and thought she deserved another year based on:
1. It only being her first year.
2. Overachieving when healthy with a very flawed roster. And they were never REALLY healthy since Elizabeth Williams got hurt as soon as Cardoso came back.
3. Turned Chennedy Carter into a functioning professional.
4. Presided over Angel Reese's successful transition to the WNBA, beyond expectations (FG% notwithstanding).
5. Good will (from me, at least) for her playing career and personality.

That being said, I do think Cardoso's development under Weatherspoon was a concern. Cardoso is super talented, physically and in terms of her skills in the post, scoring and passing. However, Cardoso also has a naturally passive personality and needs to really be coached up into being aggressive and assertive, and her team needs to be coached up to play through her because she feeds off her teammates showing that confidence in her.

But I don't think Weatherspoon mishandled Cardoso to the degree of being fired over it, and on the whole, given talent, roster construction, and health, she didn't underachieve and actually overachieved, if anything.

Well put.

Cardoso's early injury didn't help. It was already an interesting roster construction, but with E-Will and Cardoso being hurt early, suddenly, you've got a team that's winning games led by Reese and Chennedy, which nobody would've expected.

All the guards struggled early, except for Chennedy and LA. Seems like the for the 1st 10 games, they'd get down double-digits in the first quarter, then bring Chennedy and LA in to make a game of it.

It was, and continued to be, hard finding the right rotations.
Add in Diamond and Izzy both working their way back from injury.

It was a mess with players coming back from injury, getting hurt, Dana struggled early, Mabrey wasn't great early.

In the midst of all this, you've got Chennedy and Angel both wildly exceeding expectations. Nobody would've predicted this team would be making a playoff push led by them.

You're a rookie coach. It's all a mess, and you've suddenly got these 2 out of nowhere dominating.
It wasn't always pretty, but she leaned into that, which makes sense. And then they both got hurt/sick.

Not perfect, but it was a disjointed season where she seemed to get the most out of a lot of players. And Cardoso was starting to flash late in the season.

A full off-season and another year with Cardoso, Angel, E-Will, Chennedy and whoever they keep (and draft), and I think she could have done some special things.

IMO, she easily earned the opportunity to try that.

I just realized I didn't even mention trading Mabrey. That's a move you only make if you don't care about winning games this year and holding on to a playoff spot. If you do that, it looks like you're taking your coach off the hook for not winning and/or backing your coach over a disgruntled player. Or you already decided to move on from both player and coach. Or you just don't know what you're doing.

mabrey requested/demanded a trade though so i guess it's a move they "had to make". apparently dana evans also requested a trade so there was definitely something dysfunctional going on in chicago, and the coach got all the blame for it

All in all - The Sky season was a disaster. A lot Tspoon couldn't control, but every time I watched them play it seemed like there wasn't a game plan. Cardoso looked non-existent at times and focusing on Reese double doubles in garbage time was strange too. No discipline -- on top of what Reese said in her podcast about players being on their phones in the locker room and she's never seen that before at halftime lol.

Hope Tspoon gets another chance with a more patient organization whether it's head coach or assistant coach. She's an asset to have on the sidelines.

cdubbz wrote:All in all - The Sky season was a disaster. A lot Tspoon couldn't control, but every time I watched them play it seemed like there wasn't a game plan. Cardoso looked non-existent at times and focusing on Reese double doubles in garbage time was strange too. No discipline -- on top of what Reese said in her podcast about players being on their phones in the locker room and she's never seen that before at halftime lol.

Hope Tspoon gets another chance with a more patient organization whether it's head coach or assistant coach. She's an asset to have on the sidelines.

The Aces have an opening, which would be awesome with her and Hammon being so close.

Or maybe a Liberty assistant gets poached and she can go back home and work with Brondello.

MrDollarBills wrote:

DonaldSanders wrote:I didn't like how Cardoso was used, especially earlier in the year. I know she was coming back from injury and there was some ramp-up, but it didn't look like optimal use of her. I'm mainly a Cardoso fan in terms of this team, so maybe I'm biased but that's what I saw. I'm excited to see how the Sky develop with a different coach, as they are a fun team to watch.

They need a true PG and a 3 + D wing.

Angel needs to leave the offensive post to Cardoso and work on her three and mid range shot. I would not force feed her like that when you have Cardoso right there

I dont think they force fed angel, she got more shot opportunities than Cardoso but the amount of time the sky guards passed to either was pretty low, and not just the amount of passes but the quality of passes really left a lot to be desired. They could have Cardoso or Angel in the paint with a 5'9 guard on them and Dana Evans or whoever else either couldnt or wouldnt make the pass

RSCD3_ wrote:I dont think they force fed angel, she got more shot opportunities than Cardoso but the amount of time the sky guards passed to either was pretty low, and not just the amount of passes but the quality of passes really left a lot to be desired. They could have Cardoso or Angel in the paint with a 5'9 guard on them and Dana Evans or whoever else either couldnt or wouldnt make the pass

As someone who watched way more Chicago Sky games than they should had, this is spot on.

I don't know where this force feeding Angel narrative came from, everybody knows her shot attempts are misleading because of the missed layups/put back thing, but then people turn around and use her shot attempts from those misses to make it seem like she's getting the ball all game at the expense of Kamilla and it's weird.

The front office was getting killed for this firing so they had to BS something. They gave T-Spoon the worst 3 point shooting team in the league and then blamed her for not being able to run a competent offense. T-Spoon said all year that the offense needs to run through the bigs, but how can you do that when there's no space for them to work because no one respects your shooters? When your guards can't make a simple post entry? When your guards are incapable of running pick and roll without turning it over?

The "player favoritism" thing is really irking me because Angel is assumed to be of those players and they threw her under the bus and put a target on her back to receive even more hate than she already does. Now the narrative is that she's some locker room killing statpadding cancer that's ruining team harmony for double doubles, it's mad gross that they did that to her to save their own bacon... what a terribly ran franchise.

King Bugs wrote:

RSCD3_ wrote:I dont think they force fed angel, she got more shot opportunities than Cardoso but the amount of time the sky guards passed to either was pretty low, and not just the amount of passes but the quality of passes really left a lot to be desired. They could have Cardoso or Angel in the paint with a 5'9 guard on them and Dana Evans or whoever else either couldnt or wouldnt make the pass

As someone who watched way more Chicago Sky games than they should had, this is spot on.

I don't know where this force feeding Angel narrative came from, everybody knows her shot attempts are misleading because of the missed layups/put back thing, but then people turn around and use her shot attempts from those misses to make it seem like she's getting the ball all game at the expense of Kamilla and it's weird.

The front office was getting killed for this firing so they had to BS something. They gave T-Spoon the worst 3 point shooting team in the league and then blamed her for not being able to run a competent offense. T-Spoon said all year that the offense needs to run through the bigs, but how can you do that when there's no space for them to work because no one respects your shooters? When your guards can't make a simple post entry? When your guards are incapable of running pick and roll without turning it over?

The "player favoritism" thing is really irking me because Angel is assumed to be of those players and they threw her under the bus and put a target on her back to receive even more hate than she already does. Now the narrative is that she's some locker room killing statpadding cancer that's ruining team harmony for double doubles, it's mad gross that they did that to her to save their own bacon... what a terribly ran franchise.

I also watched many Sky games, and am in no way an "Angel hater". And even though I think some of the online trolls have blown it out of proportion, there certainly were grains of truth in these accusations. I didn't notice it very much at all until after the the Sky's 2nd game with Indiana where Angel abused NaLyssa Smith and scored like 26 Pts and won the game. After that game it seemed like the Sky coaching staff started putting more faith in Angel's offensive game than what she was ready for, considering her current level of offensive development.

I also didn't see as much 'force feeding' as a lot of people are claiming, but there were certainly some points where it's indisputable that they were trying to get her the ball during garbage time to rack up some more stats to either influence the ROTY race or to boost her career stat records.

Here are just a few of them that come to mind of the top of my head: vs Atlanta with 7 second left, vs Seattle, vs Indiana in their last game of season series late in the season, and the probably most highly publicized one was vs the NY Liberty when she was quadruple teamed with 2 seconds left in garbage time to break the DD streak. I may even be missing some, but in all four of those cases there was no explanation beyond stat padding on why they were pounding the ball into her in garbage time with less than 20 seconds left in those games that they were clearly going to lose. Most teams dribble out the clock at that point whether they are winning or losing.

I'm sure there were many other more impactful reasons for that accusation against T-Spoon and that was one small part of it, and I do agree that the organization itself is a much larger problem than this saga, but I disagree that the stat padding/favoritism rumors were totally unfounded. I do agree with you on the other points about post passing and Chicago's guards, however. I don't blame Angel for this, after all she's just there to hoop unless some details come out later that contradicts my thoughts.

It's honestly just another confirmation of how horribly run the franchise is top to bottom from the executive level.

Watched a lot of the Sky and fell in love with them over the season.

I do remember the one end of game where they were clearly trying to let Angel continue the DD streak. They tried once, no go, then she wanted another shot, and they said nah and dribbled it out. Poor look, for sure. But not a huge deal at the time, I didn't think.

Maybe there was more than that, but it never stood out to me.

Watching the early part of the season, I think it's reasonable that Spoon leaned into Angel and Chennedy. Maybe leaned in too much, maybe some favoritism, sure.

Maybe there's blame for Spoon that they didn't get more out of others, but man Angel and Chennedy just jumped off the screen early in the season. I like the rest of the team, but you weren't always sure what you were going to get early on.

But you knew with Angel and Chennedy. So much energy and effort. Before anybody thought this team could be anything, they knocked off the Liberty in NY. Lynx and Sun are the only other teams that did that (outside of ATL the last game of the season when the Liberty didn't care)

I get the criticism for the lack of development for others (Dana lighting up Turkey again), but I think it's understandable that she wanted to focus on Angel and Chennedy. Their early impact was huge.

RSCD3_ wrote:
I dont think they force fed angel, she got more shot opportunities than Cardoso but the amount of time the sky guards passed to either was pretty low, and not just the amount of passes but the quality of passes really left a lot to be desired. They could have Cardoso or Angel in the paint with a 5'9 guard on them and Dana Evans or whoever else either couldnt or wouldnt make the pass

Yeah that's what I noticed -- Cardoso would have mismatches they should constantly be playing through, but instead you'd see them ignore it.

I'm not sure they force-fed Angel, but they certainly did not feed Cardoso. She was 10th out of 11 on FGA per 36 of players who played at least 300 minutes. Angel was 4th. To me that means, as you pointed out, the guards were overly-featured.

Reese prolly faked an injury to Thot for social media and weatherspoon knew about it and they found out and fired her is what prolly what happened here lol