Is Diana Taurasi the GOAT?

[DKB333]

She has announced her retirerment. I personally respect how talented the best of ther best are in athletics regardless of gender, but admitely do not follow the WNBA. That will change when Toronto gets their team. Simply question. Is she the GOAT and if not then who is?

[KyRo23]

I thought she’s been retired for like 5 years

[azcatz11]

Cheryl Miller is the best women’s player of all time. She used to cook Reggie even when they were older

[jokeboy86]

Hard to tell. First off it's hard comparing her or any modern players with people like Cheryl Miller and Cynthia Cooper who didn't have a WNBA league to play in during their prime. I think Stewie and Wilson have both already passed her and they're not done yet. Probably would take Jackson and Leslie over Taurasi as well. I also personally don't think she's as good as Maya Moore who was seriously on her way to being the greatest women's player of all time before she left early. The thing about Taurasi is similar to the conversation with Kobe in that how many seasons was she unquestionably the best player in the game. Always top 5 and even #2 most years but there usually was a big who was better.

This is what I think Caitlin Clark is probably going to be because the WNBA has usually been dominated by the great bigs similar to the NBA up until Magic/Bird/Jordan

[cupcakesnake]

There's a case for Taurasi, but she needs to lean heavy on longevity to have any case against Maya Moore.

[Kingdibs19]

Caitlyn Clark

[IlikeSHAIguys]

the maya moore thread was pretty deep and detail full. What's Diana's got over her?

[Lalouie]

saying taurasi is the goat is like when baryshnikov was asked who was the greatest dancer. there was an ongoing feud between baryshnakov and nureyev, so this question was essentially a leading one

baryshnikov answered fred astaire

[Doctor MJ]

Alright so just laying out the major figures who should be in the debate in my assessment.

Uljana Semjonova (TTT Riga, USSER) - Born 1952, C, Ht 7'0", Wt 282lbs.
Cynthia Cooper (USC, USA, Houston Comets) - Born 1963, G, Ht 5'10", Wt 150lbs.
Cheryl Miller (USC, USA) - Born 1964, F, Ht 6'2", Wt 180lbs.
Tamika Catchings (Tennessee, Indiana Fever, USA) - Born 1979, F, 6'1", Wt 167lbs.
Lauren Jackson (Australia, Seattle Storm) - Born 1981, F-C, 6'6" 187lbs.
Diana Taurasi (UConn, Phoenix Mercury, USA) - Born 1982, G, 6'0" 163lbs.
Maya Moore (UConn, Minnesota Lynx, USA) - Born 1989, F, 6'0" 175 lbs.

First thing I think has to pop out is that Semjonova is not like the others. A 7 footer remains extremely rare in the women's game, and if we were to compare her to the greatest 7 footer in WNBA history - Margo Dydek 7'2" from Poland - Semjonova is listed at 59 pounds heavier.

What does Semjonova look like I figure you have to be asking if you don't already know:



Semjonova was led the USSR to an undefeated record across all tournaments for 18 years, and would have played in 1984 against Cheryl Miller had the Soviets participated in those Olympics.

Without question the most successful women's basketball career in history, but of course it was a different time without a 3-point line, and it seems quite likely she'd be less suited for the modern game. From her appearance, I'd guess she had acromegaly and while she must have been more agile and coordinated than you'd typically expect from someone with the condition, it's hard to imagine she wouldn't be very slow by today's standards.

Cooper & Miller really cry out to be considered together. Back-to-back SoCal POYs who both go to USC, but there, Miller is immediately anointed as the team's star, and Cooper often seems to have operated staggered from Miller in a 6th-man like role.



Miller dominates as a player with utterly unprecedented explosion for her size. I've likened her as someone analogous to Charles Barkley in sturdy build with unexpected athleticism, but the motor of, well, her brother Reggie Miller.

Miller's career gets ended quickly by injuries - else we might have had a successful women's league in the US much earlier - and so much is left unknown about her. Could she have avoided the injury retirement if there'd simply been better sports medicine? Would she have developed a good 3-point shot had she been around when it came to be?

If both of those things are true, then Miller I'd say would be a serious candidate for the GOAT played of the 3-point era...but of course that's a big if for someone who played in the 2-point era and was really dominating by the basket.



Cooper's story is perhaps the most interesting of the bunch. She goes from being an unstoppable high school player, to being cast as a role player in college, to being cast as a secondary star or role player on Team USA, to absolutely dominating the WNBA in her late 30s by playing a pace & space style - think AI with best-in-world 3-point shooting, or maybe Trae Young as he thinks he is - at a time when the US thought bump & grind basketball was the way to go. Along the way she played pro ball in Europe where she was apparently an absolutely huge scorer for many years.

So basically, the disconnect between what American's women basketball thought, and what European's women basketball knew, resulted in the WNBA seeing Cooper as a mere role player-ish type player when they did their initial player allocations, and because they randomly assigned her on the team of one of the two big expected superstars in the league (Sheryl Swoopes, along with Lisa Leslie), they ended up with a 4-peat in the league's first 4 seasons.

I'll circle back to say: There was no 3-point shot when Cooper was in college, which means Cooper simply didn't have the same ceiling as a player back then. It's thus entirely possible that Miller was the better player when they were teammates, but even with ideal health Cooper would be the better player for the 3-point era. If Miller's brother wasn't one of the great 3-point shooters of all-time, I don't think there'd even be much reason to doubt this, but Reggie is Cheryl's brother, and that's hard to ignore.

Catchings & Jackson pair together as well, as they were both in the same (2001) draft class which has a case for being the GOAT in WNBA history. Jackson was a couple years young and drafted 1st. Catchings was drafted 3rd.



Despite being younger, Jackson's flame would burn hotter and end (in the WNBA at least) sooner. I would consider Jackson both the Player of the Decade for the '00s, and the Offensive Player of the Decade. I might compared her to Dirk Nowitzki with greater ability to thrive on the interior on both sides of the court.

When she retired, I'd say she had a strong case for WNBA Career GOAT and an even stronger case for Peak GOAT, but injuries would take their toll and at a relatively young age she exited back to Australia, and meanwhile Catchings kept going aging like fine wine.



I would consider Catchings the Defensive GOAT of the WNBA - and note she was more about steals than blocks, she wasn't what we in the NBA would expect to be a defensive anchor - and I think when all is said and done, her longevity gives here a greater body of WNBA work than Jackson.

And to try to draw an analogy to the NBA, I might say Russell Westbrook with better shooting and decision making who never quite goes full helio.

Finally we get to our UConn duo of Taurasi & Moore. Taurasi being the mainstream's chosen women's basketball GOAT, Moore being better at basketball overall.



With Taurasi what you have is the consensus greatest scorer and shooter in WNBA history, and I wouldn't disagree with that assessment. In fact I consider her the WNBA's Offensive Career GOAT and certainly she has a strong case for Peak Offensive GOAT.

She's particularly known for her willingness, and ability, to take 3's at the drop of a hat, and doing so in the heat of coverage. I might say she's a bit like Steve Nash but with Mamba Mentality (which I don't mean entirely as a compliment, but she was really damn good).



Finally we get to Moore who I recently made a whole thread about on the WNBA board so I won't belabor the point here. I called her a mixture of Larry Bird and Michael Jordan over there. I would say that the data pretty clearly points to her as the most impactful player the W has ever seen, but she only played for 8 years leaving the door open for others to surpass her with longevity.

Most would say it's Taurasi who would get that longevity-based honor.
I would say that if I were going to choose a WNBA player with longevity being a big enough deal, I'd side with Catchings.

But in the end, I think Moore did enough in those 8 years, that I don't think anyone surpassed her total WNBA achievement.

That still leaves the questions:

Is what Semjonova did in her career more impressive than what Moore did?

Could Miller have been a rich woman's Moore in this era, health permitting?

Who might end up surpassing Moore to become the most accomplished player in W history? And to just list the obvious players to consider who are currently not yet retired:

Breanna Stewart
A'ja Wilson
Caitlin Clark

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Semjova is giving Bill Russell to me

[Doctor MJ]

Semjova is giving Bill Russell to me

In terms of dominance in her field absolutely.

Stylistically, probably more like Shaq if he played in Wilt's era and not allowed to be as aggressive.

[boogiezen]

She is certainly one of the greats, but she also benefited from UCONN. She shouldn't have been part of TEAM USA last year in Paris, but that UCONN privilege really helped her.

[LewisnotMiller]

Tough conversation. LJ is clearly the best Australian player, so I'll just call her the GOAT (as many Australians do) and ignore the need to try and rank these incredible female players.
Is this a cop out? Yup.

[zimpy27]

Maybe Clark can put it all to rest one day but for now I think LJ, Moore, or Diana

[IlikeSHAIguys]

GOAT talk is way more polite and everything here than the Player Comparison board

[Wallace_Wallace]

When I started watching the WNBA in the mid 00's as a teenager, she was one of the few players that I stood out to me. At the time, I remember Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash & Kobe Bryant being the only ones shooting from deep off the dribble in the NBA, and Taurasi did it as her primary shot. To me, she was born in the wrong era and could certainly bring popularity to the sport today with 3 ball evolution.

One of the flashiest players in the history. Loved watching her and Deanna "Tweety" Nolan on the Detroit Shock as well.

[zike_42]

I feel that longevity and scoring are the leading reason why DT is considered the GOAT. I don't have a problem with that, but my biggest problem is that she only has one MVP award, and that apart from her career stats (which are amazing, don't get me wrong), they don't separate her from the crowd enough. She doesn't have the defensive accolades either, which the other GOAT nominees have.

D. Taurasi - 1x MVP, 3x Champion, 2x FMVP, 11x All Star, 10x All-1st, 4x All-2nd
A. Wilson - 3x MVP, 2x Champion, 1x FMVP, 6x All Star, 4x All-1st, 1x All-2nd, 2x DPoY, 4x Def Team
L. Jackson - 3x MVP, 2x Champion, 1x MVP, 7x All Star, 7x All-1st, 1x All-2nd, 1x DPoY, 5x Def Team
L. Leslie - 3x MVP, 2x Champion, 2x FMVP, 8x All Star, 8x All-1st, 4x All-2nd, 2x DPoY, 4x Def Team
S. Swoopes - 3x MVP, 4x Champion, 6x All Star, 5x All-1st, 2x All-2nd, 3x DPoY, 2x Def Team
M. Moore - 1x MVP, 4x Champion, 1x FMVP, 6x All Star, 5x All-1st, 2x All-2nd, 2x Def Team

Apart from her longevity (which I'm not discounting), her awards just aren't really better than the others on this list (which isn't every GOAT possibility).

[picko]

There is no coherent argument in favour of Taurasi as WNBA goat. Certainly not over Jackson or Moore or even current stars like Wilson.

If you've never been the league's best player, then you are not a serious contender for GOAT.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

There is no coherent argument in favour of Taurasi as WNBA goat. Certainly not over Jackson or Moore or even current stars like Wilson.

If you've never been the league's best player, then you are not a serious contender for GOAT.

I don't know. The top post seemed plenty coherent to me

[Ice Man]

Truth is, the WNBA doesn't yet have a GOAT. The longevity players didn't have a high enough peak value, and the peak value players didn't have enough longevity. Not a single player on the All Time Top 10 scoring list in the WNBA has ever won more than 1 MVP.

I wouldn't be surprised to see A'ja, Stewie, and Phee pass all of them on the GOAT meter. WIth of course CC on the longer-term horizon.