FIBA World Cup 2023 : GERMANY are the new World Champions! (takes on the world and beats it for once...)

[LuDux1]

wow, this is pathetic. Latvia beating Lithuania at basketball, to Lithuanian, is the same kind of pain like USA beating England at Soccer, to English fan. THis is just not how it suppose to be champ, I dont like this haha.

Just teacher teaching pupil 2nd time in 80 years

[durden_tyler]

Zagars is a beast. NBA could use a guard like him. Wonder if he would pan out.

Latvia without Porzingis is still a great team. Can't wait for the Olympics. Imma grab my popcorn and watch a little Rondae Hollis-Jefferson imitation of Kobe.

Problem is if he’s just another Campazzo.

[Mirotic12]

Where can i order a Latvian Zagars jersey?

Also, for international fans (Philippines) is there an NBA League Pass counter part for all Euroleagues and respective Euro country local leagues where i can watch all games? (Am tired of illegal streaming, best to just pay for it if it’s all in one place)

EuroLeague, the best club league in Europe
EuroCup, which is EuroLeague's 2nd tier competition, and probably the 3rd best league in Europe:

https://tv.euroleague.net/ (paid subscription)

FIBA Basketball Champions League Europe, the 2nd best club league in Europe
Spanish ACB League and several other national leagues around the world
EuroBasket, World Cup, Olympics, qualification tournaments:

https://www.courtside1891.basketball/ (paid subscription)

Free games on YouTube of the FIBA Basketball Champions League Europe (2nd best European league):

https://www.youtube.com/@BasketballCL

Free games on YouTube of the FIBA Basketball Champions League Americas (best league in Latin America):

https://www.youtube.com/@BCLAmericas

Free games of Australia's NBL on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@nbl

Free games of Argentina's league on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@LaLigaBasquet

Free games of Brazil's league on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/@NBBoficial


There are other leagues with free games on YouTube also, I just can't think of them right now.

[Nuntius]

It is interesting that some of the players who skip FIBA, usually make excuse that they didnt sign contract yet. Now look at free agent Zagars, how much upcoming money he made in this past 2 weeks?

To be fair, those players are usually players that have a lot to lose in case they get injured and their value tanks. Žagars had nothing to lose. He was playing in Nevėžis and, well, you know more about Nevėžis than I do so I don't need to tell you what that means. It's not like he was being paid serious money before the tournament.

But, yeah, after that tournament? He made his career. He'll get picked up by a strong club now, on a good salary, and he'll be able to make a good living playing basketball. I'm happy for him

[aminiaturebuddha]

I think you still have to consider context and individual cases. Steph has never participated in the Olympics and that's probably his last shot at doing it while still having a good role on the team. In addition, he has the skillset to where he is plug and play on every team in the entire world. Also, Steph has actually bulked up and added more mass over the last years, as opposed to traditional shooters, like Kerr or Navarro who were super skinny and essentially useless on D past a certain age cause they were only relying on genetics/ God given muscle mass.

As for LeBron, you really think he couldn't play 15 mpg at PF 11 months from now? Mainly as a point forward while getting a dunk and chase down block here and there.

Imo it's simply a case by case thing and LBJ and Steph are two guys who spend the summers working out a ton anyway. The reason they're not always available is mainly cause it requires them to be away from home and less due to the wear and tear. Now if we take Kawhi or AD, that's a different story. Those guys need rest and time to recover.

To me the main issue with a roster of Lillard, Butler, Draymond, AD, LBJ, Steph in 2024 is that it limits the high ball pressure D you can play. Have to fill out those remaining spots with athletic defenders that can shoot consistently well even in pressure situations and those are hard to find.

You know, Steph was never all that great in FIBA.

2010 FIBA World Cup

4.6 points per game
1.4 rebounds per game
2.1 assists per game

and tripped to the floor from a Spanoulis ankle breaker

2014 FIBA World Cup

10.7 points per game
2.8 rebounds per game
2.9 assists per game

This is before his peak, but it's not exactly like he lit it up or anything. And he would be 36 at the Olympics, and he is definitely starting to show his age a little bit. He's one of my favorite players ever, but he's not some savior messiah for Team USA.

To be fair to Steph, I don't think it's accurate to say that he wasn't "all that great" in 2014 just because of some counting stats. The US generally spreads around their scoring, and that 2014 team was no exception. They had 6 players who averaged between 10.7 and 14.2 pts in that tournament. And no one averaged more than 3.6 assists. Steph also shot .438 from 3 over 9 games.

And that was a team that basically dominated from the jump, and won their 3 playoff games by an average of 36 points, and he was one of their key starters and played in all their best lineups. So yeah, he's been pretty good in FIBA in his one tournament since hitting his prime. I don't think it's fair to downplay his quality because he didn't go off like Doncic in his counting stats.

[Mirotic12]

To be fair to Steph, I don't think it's accurate to say that he wasn't "all that great" in 2014 just because of some counting stats. The US generally spreads around their scoring, and that 2014 team was no exception. They had 6 players who averaged between 10.7 and 14.2 pts in that tournament. And no one averaged more than 3.6 assists. Steph also shot .438 from 3 over 9 games.

And that was a team that basically dominated from the jump, and won their 3 playoff games by an average of 36 points, and he was one of their key starters and played in all their best lineups. So yeah, he's been pretty good in FIBA in his one tournament since hitting his prime. I don't think it's fair to downplay his quality because he didn't go off like Doncic in his counting stats.

True, but it's still 10.7 points a game. And now he would be 36 at the Olympics. He's not going to be a savior for Team USA.

[Mirotic12]

Zagars is a beast. NBA could use a guard like him. Wonder if he would pan out.

Latvia without Porzingis is still a great team. Can't wait for the Olympics. Imma grab my popcorn and watch a little Rondae Hollis-Jefferson imitation of Kobe.

Problem is if he’s just another Campazzo.

Campazzo could never shoot. He was always one of the worst shooters at the guard spots in EuroLeague. And he's probably like 5 inches or so smaller. Zagars is nowhere near to being as athletic as Campazzo is, etc. I don't see much of a similarity. Too different as player types.

[Ruma85]

To be fair to Steph, I don't think it's accurate to say that he wasn't "all that great" in 2014 just because of some counting stats. The US generally spreads around their scoring, and that 2014 team was no exception. They had 6 players who averaged between 10.7 and 14.2 pts in that tournament. And no one averaged more than 3.6 assists. Steph also shot .438 from 3 over 9 games.

And that was a team that basically dominated from the jump, and won their 3 playoff games by an average of 36 points, and he was one of their key starters and played in all their best lineups. So yeah, he's been pretty good in FIBA in his one tournament since hitting his prime. I don't think it's fair to downplay his quality because he didn't go off like Doncic in his counting stats.

True, but it's still 10.7 points a game. And now he would be 36 at the Olympics. He's not going to be a savior for Team USA.

He probably won't be, the main problem for me for team usa is that they think you can switch a flip & win a game whenever you want, it 's clearly not going to work like that anymore, if they play as a consistent unit a coherent unit, they probably win in 2024,

P.s for how popular and big basketball is in usa, there farm system is terrible when you make a comparison to the European way of growing the talented kids.

[basketballRob]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

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[durden_tyler]

Zagars is a beast. NBA could use a guard like him. Wonder if he would pan out.

Latvia without Porzingis is still a great team. Can't wait for the Olympics. Imma grab my popcorn and watch a little Rondae Hollis-Jefferson imitation of Kobe.

Problem is if he’s just another Campazzo.

Campazzo could never shoot. He was always one of the worst shooters at the guard spots in EuroLeague. And he's probably like 5 inches or so smaller. Zagars is nowhere near to being as athletic as Campazzo is, etc. I don't see much of a similarity. Too different as player types.

I meant only in NBA level. We have these great Euro/international players that never translated well in the big league.

[Mirotic12]

I meant only in NBA level. We have these great Euro/international players that never translated well in the big league.

Campazzo is not a great EuroLeague player. Zagars has never played in EuroLeague. So I wouldn't use either of them as a comparison for that.

[Mirotic12]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

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In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

[durden_tyler]

I meant only in NBA level. We have these great Euro/international players that never translated well in the big league.

Campazzo is not a great EuroLeague player. Zagars has never played in EuroLeague. So I wouldn't use either of them as a comparison for that.

The discussion was playing in the NBA. So i used an international scrub (in the NBA) like Campazzo. So maybe the Spanoulis and the likes if it’s Euro.

[basketballRob]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

Franz and Reaves would've been fun to watch. Hartenstein would've helped, too.

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[durden_tyler]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

Not really. He’s playing for the Lakers, so that hype alone is probably worth more than playing for another NT.

[-Luke-]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

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In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

Franz and Reaves would've been fun to watch. Hartenstein would've helped, too.

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Not sure Hartenstein would have helped much. He definitely has the quality, but the depth at the big positions with Theis/Voigtmann/M. Wagner/Thiemann is one of the biggest strength of the German team. Especially if we consider that Kleber also isn't there. Apparently Hartenstein was/is kind of a d*** and I never had the feeling he wanted to play for Germany. Might have caused more disturbance for the team than taking great team players like Voigtmann or Thiemann (94.7% from two-point range in the World Cup!), who play their roles, are well-liked by their teammates and put team success first.

[DrPampiloni]

Wonder if Austin Reaves regrets not playing for Germany?

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

In retrospect, if Germany wins the gold, yeah, he made a big mistake. He would be getting endless hype if he played with Germany and they won the gold.

Franz and Reaves would've been fun to watch. Hartenstein would've helped, too.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

In principle Kleber, Hartenstein and Reaves would have made this team scary deep. But I have a feeling that the chemistry would rot with such great players having to scrap for minutes. Also having to speak English on the court because of Austin Reaves is a tactical disadvantage.

I think Hartenstein will be part of the National Team after this olympic cycle is done. Voigtmann and Theis will probably not be so healthy anymore. He will be needed.

[Mirotic12]

The discussion was playing in the NBA. So i used an international scrub (in the NBA) like Campazzo. So maybe the Spanoulis and the likes if it’s Euro.

The only truly great EuroLeague point guards, and by great, I mean like a tier 1 guy all time, that went to the NBA are Sarunas Jasikevicius and Spanoulis. I can't think of any others. Sasha Djordjevic, Antoine Rigaudeau, Sergei Bazarevich, Goran Dragic, Beno Udrih, Sergio Rodriguez, Ricky Rubio, Milos Teodosic, Nick Calathes, Marko Jaric, Facu Campazzo, Nico Laprovittola, Mike James, Pablo Prigioni, Marcelo Huertas, Shane Larkin, Kevin Pangos, Jeremy Pargo, Bo McCalebb, Tomas Satoransky, etc., etc. none of them were at the top of the best ever in EuroLeague point guards.

Djordjevic and maybe Rigaudeau and Sergio Rodriguez might be close to that tier 1, but not quite.

The problem you have is, both Jasikevicius and Spanoulis went to the NBA at a time when the EuroLeague players, especially the point guards, were not trusted by 95% of the NBA coaches. Most NBA coaches at that time just automatically believed no European point guard could play in the NBA. Popovich was really the only one that didn't think that.

Then again, you are talking about Zagars, who has 2 weeks of good basketball in his whole life, and it's in a tournament that is clearly below the EuroLeague level. So there is really no comparison here at all.

Zagars would be compared to any other young 23 year old talent, that did nothing, then had a good 2 weeks of play with a national team.

[Nuntius]

Finland's Peterri Koponen, for example, retired from the national team after last year's EuroBasket, a few months after he turned 34.

I’m not arguing against the point you are making here, but Koponen quit because he couldn’t run without pain anymore. According to him he would have played another 10 years had he been physically able, and I’d guess he would have been available for the national team as long as they would have found use for him.

He would have been Finland’s best point guard by a wide margin still had he been able to continue playing. That’s probably the biggest if for Finland this year, although Australia and Germany would have probably been too tough even with healthy Koponen in the squad.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Koponen loved playing for his NT and he would have kept playing for as long as he was physically able to. But that's also why I say that things get dicey when you are near your late 30s. Your body just isn't the same anymore. It cannot handle the same amount of exhaustion. You simply aren't physically able to do the same stuff you were able to do in your mid 20s.

That's the case for most of the players I mentioned as well. They are simply too old and too injured to be able to do that year after year after year. They don't retire because they no longer want to play. They retire because they cannot play at that level anymore.

PS: And, yes, I do agree that had Koponen been healthy and available, Finland would have done better. Finland missed his leadership and poise in this WC. It's fine, though, the young guys are getting more experience early on and that may help them develop faster. This is not the end for Finland, it's just a bump in the road.

[Nuntius]

I think you still have to consider context and individual cases. Steph has never participated in the Olympics and that's probably his last shot at doing it while still having a good role on the team. In addition, he has the skillset to where he is plug and play on every team in the entire world. Also, Steph has actually bulked up and added more mass over the last years, as opposed to traditional shooters, like Kerr or Navarro who were super skinny and essentially useless on D past a certain age cause they were only relying on genetics/ God given muscle mass.

Fair enough then. I do think that Steph wants to have a final run with this GSW roster before they ride off into the sunset and that an Olympics run conflicts with that goal but I do get your argument.

As for LeBron, you really think he couldn't play 15 mpg at PF 11 months from now? Mainly as a point forward while getting a dunk and chase down block here and there.

He could. But we all know that LeBron isn't a guy who will accept only playing 15 MPG. He's going to want a leading role and I don't think that he will be able to go for 30+ MPG at PF after yet another grueling season at age 39.

Imo it's simply a case by case thing and LBJ and Steph are two guys who spend the summers working out a ton anyway. The reason they're not always available is mainly cause it requires them to be away from home and less due to the wear and tear. Now if we take Kawhi or AD, that's a different story. Those guys need rest and time to recover.

To me the main issue with a roster of Lillard, Butler, Draymond, AD, LBJ, Steph in 2024 is that it limits the high ball pressure D you can play. Have to fill out those remaining spots with athletic defenders that can shoot consistently well even in pressure situations and those are hard to find.

If you go that route then you could indeed try to fill the roster with 3&D glue guys. Instead of going for an All-Star type of approach, just build a team that fits on the court. It's a possibility. That said, your next team should definitely include some bigs. Those immobile 7 footers that have gone extinct in the NBA game, they actually do serve a purpose in these tournaments. You should have one or two of them on the roster.