jinxed wrote:How's Boban doing? I love that guy.
Boban just had one of his best games so far, 21 point 8 rebounds.
Moderator: THE J0KER
jinxed wrote:How's Boban doing? I love that guy.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
nedleeds wrote:With all the players sitting out is KP the best player in the whole tournament?
a-French-Fan wrote:As a sample, I would take the success of Spain last 11 years ... Of course there is Gasol brothers, but believe me they were not more important than Navarro (a euroleague player) or Calderon (a correct player in NBA, not more). As a French fan, except in 2015 and a strange game (40 pts for Pau with really a lot of FT), Spanish euroleague players were my real nightmare all those years.
nedleeds wrote:With all the players sitting out is KP the best player in the whole tournament?
Genjuro wrote:a-French-Fan wrote:As a sample, I would take the success of Spain last 11 years ... Of course there is Gasol brothers, but believe me they were not more important than Navarro (a euroleague player) or Calderon (a correct player in NBA, not more). As a French fan, except in 2015 and a strange game (40 pts for Pau with really a lot of FT), Spanish euroleague players were my real nightmare all those years.
I might go for the pure act of faith, but since I usually watch games, I won't.
Pau Gasol has been hands down the best player for the Spanish NT, one of the very top NT players for any country ever (some say even the best, but we don't need to get into that discussion).
Calderón more important than him... are you kidding? How can you get to that conclusion? I'm not sure I've ever read a bolder statement on these boards.
a-French-Fan wrote:nedleeds wrote:With all the players sitting out is KP the best player in the whole tournament?Genjuro wrote:a-French-Fan wrote:As a sample, I would take the success of Spain last 11 years ... Of course there is Gasol brothers, but believe me they were not more important than Navarro (a euroleague player) or Calderon (a correct player in NBA, not more). As a French fan, except in 2015 and a strange game (40 pts for Pau with really a lot of FT), Spanish euroleague players were my real nightmare all those years.
I might go for the pure act of faith, but since I usually watch games, I won't.
Pau Gasol has been hands down the best player for the Spanish NT, one of the very top NT players for any country ever (some say even the best, but we don't need to get into that discussion).
Calderón more important than him... are you kidding? How can you get to that conclusion? I'm not sure I've ever read a bolder statement on these boards.
I didn't say "Calderon was more important", but the Gasols were not more important. I meant that Spain was a great team with great NBA players and great euroleague players. I only saw three wins for France against Spain, and the rest of the time Gasol's generation walked on Parker's generation. And as far that I can remember all those defeats against Spain, only in 2015 Gasol was our killer. In 2016, in Rio, it was Mirotic.Before (from 2007 to 2012), other players were important during those games. France's nightmare was not only the Gasol brothers, but also other players like Navarro, Fernandez, Ibaka, Reyes, Calderon ...etc
With a NBA superstar above other players you can win a Eurobasket (Krilenko 2007, Parker 2013), or reach a final (Dirk with Germany, 2005), but for dominating Europe you need other great players, and that is the strenght of Spain. Look at this year, no Mirotic, no Ibaka, no Llull etc... that won't be a matter, still Gasol brothers and other great players for FIBA basketball.
As a conclusion, Spain dominated with Pau Gasol as a superstar, but the main strenght was collectiveness with a lot of talent everywhere on the court.
Genjuro wrote:a-French-Fan wrote:nedleeds wrote:With all the players sitting out is KP the best player in the whole tournament?Genjuro wrote:
I might go for the pure act of faith, but since I usually watch games, I won't.
Pau Gasol has been hands down the best player for the Spanish NT, one of the very top NT players for any country ever (some say even the best, but we don't need to get into that discussion).
Calderón more important than him... are you kidding? How can you get to that conclusion? I'm not sure I've ever read a bolder statement on these boards.
I didn't say "Calderon was more important", but the Gasols were not more important. I meant that Spain was a great team with great NBA players and great euroleague players. I only saw three wins for France against Spain, and the rest of the time Gasol's generation walked on Parker's generation. And as far that I can remember all those defeats against Spain, only in 2015 Gasol was our killer. In 2016, in Rio, it was Mirotic.Before (from 2007 to 2012), other players were important during those games. France's nightmare was not only the Gasol brothers, but also other players like Navarro, Fernandez, Ibaka, Reyes, Calderon ...etc
With a NBA superstar above other players you can win a Eurobasket (Krilenko 2007, Parker 2013), or reach a final (Dirk with Germany, 2005), but for dominating Europe you need other great players, and that is the strenght of Spain. Look at this year, no Mirotic, no Ibaka, no Llull etc... that won't be a matter, still Gasol brothers and other great players for FIBA basketball.
As a conclusion, Spain dominated with Pau Gasol as a superstar, but the main strenght was collectiveness with a lot of talent everywhere on the court.
I can easily agree with that final conclusión, even if I find some slight contradictions along your message.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
TheTrooper wrote:nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
Gobert in Fiba ball is not the same as in the NBA.
nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
UcanUwill wrote:TheTrooper wrote:nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
Gobert in Fiba ball is not the same as in the NBA.
Ajinca is arguably bigger loss for them. He was dominant last time he played this level of competition. He is very talented, but never figured out how to not to foul at NBA level.
a-French-Fan wrote:UcanUwill wrote:TheTrooper wrote:Gobert in Fiba ball is not the same as in the NBA.
Ajinca is arguably bigger loss for them. He was dominant last time he played this level of competition. He is very talented, but never figured out how to not to foul at NBA level.
Ajinca has good hands, was really usefull for 2013 title. (but the hero in the paint for defense was Florent Pietrus defending Marc Gasol). He was very stupid during 2016 prep. So I don't expect him to come back any year.
Gobert was really good against Gasol brothers in 2014, had not the right to defend on Pau in 2015 (watch semi-final and you will understand), and 2016 was a collective sinking for France.
After Parker retirement, offensive potential is better with De Colo, Fournier and Heurtel (3 guys sharing the ball). We don't need Ajinça to put some points. The big MATTER will be defense, and Gobert is the biggest loss (with Batum and Kahudi, so important for defense). How defend against Valanciunas or Gasol brothers without Gobert?
UcanUwill wrote:nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
Gasol brothers should still work Porzingis big time.
mojo13 wrote:UcanUwill wrote:nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
Gasol brothers should still work Porzingis big time.
It is criminal how Euro fans under-rate Marc Gasol. Maybe it is just my NBA-centric view and FIBA is a very different game. But Marc is the best NBA player playing Eurobasket right now by a wide margin - he'd likely be the top 1-3 NBA players in Eurobasket if no one was missing (Giannis and Jokic would give him a run). He has been the best European player in the NBA for the past 4-5 years. I really don't know historically if he has been limited in FIBA by him taking a submissive role to big brother, or just not used properly by Spain or his game not really translating to FIBA. You guys please tell me....
3× NBA All-Star (2012, 2015, 2017)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (2013)
All-NBA Second Team (2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2013)
All-NBA First Team (2015)
Marc and Dirk (Noah too if he counts) are the only European players to be named All-NBA First team ever!
Out of nowhere this year Marc stated dropping 1.4 threes a game on 39% shooting - along with a Jokic like 5 assist per game and 19 points a game.
Comparitive NBA stats of Marc, Pau, Jokic, KP and Gobert for the 16/17 season:
http://bkref.com/tiny/vfYfg
UcanUwill wrote:nedleeds wrote:I take that as a yes. KP is the single best player with Freak and Rudy out. I hope he dominates, hard to judge the friendly matches.
Gasol brothers should still work Porzingis big time.
Zenzibar wrote:Nevertheless, Payton is not a finished product yet and unless the team moves him in a couple of weeks, I anticipate him trending upward with this coaching staff.
a-French-Fan wrote:I think the matter was quoting Calderon who is not as good as Rudy F or Navarro. But for Navarro (2011 Eurobasket MVP), don't you agree?
By the way, how do you feel for your NT this year?
a-French-Fan wrote:Pronostics:
1. France
2. Slovenia
3. Greece
4. Finland
5. Iceland
6. Poland
B.
Lithuania
Italy
Germany
Israel
Georgia
Ukrain
C:
Spain
Croatia
czech Republic
Montenegro
Hungary
Roumania
D.Serbia
Latvia
Turkey
Russia
Belgium
Great Britan
Sweet 16:
Italy - Greece
Spain Russia
France Israel
Czech Republic - Latvia
Lithuania- Finland
Croatia - Turkey
Slovenia- Germany
Serbia - Montenegro
Quarter-finals:
Spain - Italy
France - Latvia
Lithuania - Croatia
Serbia - Slovenia
Semi-finals:
Spain - France
Croatia - Serbia
Final: Spain defeats Croatia
3rd place: France defeats Serbia
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