Euroleague discussion thread

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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#101 » by scwarrior+zenit » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:50 pm

UcanUwill wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kTIcWZKw54[/youtube]



This is a marvelous video tribute to an incredible player, leader, teammate and now coach!! Someone who plays with drive and joy! Hooray!
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Post#102 » by Little Nathan » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:15 pm

Just watched Alba getting destroyed by Ludwigsburg in the BBL (4 points in the third, no field goals). Now they're playing Barca next...
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#103 » by UcanUwill » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:07 pm

Wish I visited some betting place in my town and made a ticket of Barca, Real, Fenerbache and CSKA going to final 4. Easy money, these play offs has no unknowns whatsoever it seems.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#104 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:26 pm

Olympiacos and Barca is not decided. That only seems so because of Spanoulis injury. If Spanoulis would be able to play healthy the rest of the games, Olympiacos could easily win that series. This of course is depended on if his knee is healthy or not. It seems not to be. But if it can become OK, they can easily win that series.

Also, I would not completely write off Maccabi just yet. It is very difficult to win at Tel Aviv. So you never know. If they could win 2 games there, then pressure builds to Fenerbahce and the only clutch player they have is Zisis, and on their team he is not even allowed to have a shot. So even though I think they are a lot better team than Maccabi, it's not out of the question. The same scenario happened to Milano last season. Although Rice is much more clutch than Pargo is.

These are both what if scenarios right now, but definitely could happen. The first one is a who knows though. But if Spanoulis turned out at all healthy, probably even Olympiacos is the favorite.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#105 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:00 am

Mirotic12 wrote:Olympiacos and Barca is not decided. That only seems so because of Spanoulis injury. If Spanoulis would be able to play healthy the rest of the games, Olympiacos could easily win that series. This of course is depended on if his knee is healthy or not. It seems not to be. But if it can become OK, they can easily win that series.

Also, I would not completely write off Maccabi just yet. It is very difficult to win at Tel Aviv. So you never know. If they could win 2 games there, then pressure builds to Fenerbahce and the only clutch player they have is Zisis, and on their team he is not even allowed to have a shot. So even though I think they are a lot better team than Maccabi, it's not out of the question. The same scenario happened to Milano last season. Although Rice is much more clutch than Pargo is.

These are both what if scenarios right now, but definitely could happen. The first one is a who knows though. But if Spanoulis turned out at all healthy, probably even Olympiacos is the favorite.


I hope you are right, I want competitive series. I can see Olympiacos winning at home and extending the series, but I think Maccabi is done. I feel a sweep coming.

To begin with, Fenerbache is just more talented team. They are dominant on the boards, no Maccabi player can box out Bjelica or Vesely it seems, just a terrible match for them. Fenerbache has Obradovic is another huge thing, he really knows how to finish this kind of business. And their confidence is through the roof right now, where Maccabi looks legitimately done.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#106 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:09 pm

Thomas Heurtel, very underrated.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#107 » by Mirotic12 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:49 pm

Even a team with a $60 million budget cannot escape from the hell of OAKA unscathed.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#108 » by UcanUwill » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:09 am

OLY took a 2-1 lead. Maybe its good I didn't make that bet after all.

I am not sure if year after year, i underestimate OLY's roster, or they just exceed expectations. This year is no different, I look at that squad, and it doesn't seem THAT great.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#109 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:53 pm

UcanUwill wrote:OLY took a 2-1 lead. Maybe its good I didn't make that bet after all.

I am not sure if year after year, i underestimate OLY's roster, or they just exceed expectations. This year is no different, I look at that squad, and it doesn't seem THAT great.


Well, that series is still not over same way. But like I said, if anything they were the favorite. Yes, you obviously underestimate Olympiacos if you do not understand basic fact that they have by far best player in Europe and no one can stop him.

Spanoulis makes complete nightmare for all the defense and coaches with his ability to score and pass and there is nothing any opponent can do about it, except to hope he plays bad. It is really that simple. Last year Olympiacos would have passed Real also, except they had several many injuries that it was too much for them and Spanoulis played hurt. Even then they almost won.

This year Spanoulis plays hurt and they still look like they will beat Barca. If they finish Barca and he gets 100% healthy by the final four, I would not want to be CSKA at the semi. All the pressure will again be on CSKA, and Spanoulis just lives for those moments. And again, there is nothing the defense can do to stop him if he is fully healthy.

It is either the pass or the score, one way or the other. So yes, you underestimate Olympiacos if you have not figured that out by now. As long as reffing is somewhat fair, which it usually is in Euroleague, if you have one single unstoppable player, you can pretty much win every time, even against teams with much bigger budgets. That is what Olympiacos is proving over and over and over.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#110 » by UcanUwill » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:38 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:OLY took a 2-1 lead. Maybe its good I didn't make that bet after all.

I am not sure if year after year, i underestimate OLY's roster, or they just exceed expectations. This year is no different, I look at that squad, and it doesn't seem THAT great.


Well, that series is still not over same way. But like I said, if anything they were the favorite. Yes, you obviously underestimate Olympiacos if you do not understand basic fact that they have by far best player in Europe and no one can stop him.

Spanoulis makes complete nightmare for all the defense and coaches with his ability to score and pass and there is nothing any opponent can do about it, except to hope he plays bad. It is really that simple. Last year Olympiacos would have passed Real also, except they had several many injuries that it was too much for them and Spanoulis played hurt. Even then they almost won.

This year Spanoulis plays hurt and they still look like they will beat Barca. If they finish Barca and he gets 100% healthy by the final four, I would not want to be CSKA at the semi. All the pressure will again be on CSKA, and Spanoulis just lives for those moments. And again, there is nothing the defense can do to stop him if he is fully healthy.

It is either the pass or the score, one way or the other. So yes, you underestimate Olympiacos if you have not figured that out by now. As long as reffing is somewhat fair, which it usually is in Euroleague, if you have one single unstoppable player, you can pretty much win every time, even against teams with much bigger budgets. That is what Olympiacos is proving over and over and over.


Heck, I guess you are right.

I know Spanoulis is very good, and I like Printezis a lot, though he is not very consistent. But over than that, when I look at OLYs roster, I always end up being underwhelmed. A lot of journeymen Americans. Maybe I do underestimate them a lot, but none of Lojeski, Lafayette, Darden, Petway, Hunter... none of them seem that great at all. They also won two championships with Acie Law starting, of all people.
OLYs GM must be a damn genius, because he really knows how to build a successful team.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#111 » by PZiv » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:57 pm

Real is in, which I don't like, but Barca is out which I like.
OLY, FEN, CSKA, REAL will be great on F4.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#112 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:05 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:OLY took a 2-1 lead. Maybe its good I didn't make that bet after all.

I am not sure if year after year, i underestimate OLY's roster, or they just exceed expectations. This year is no different, I look at that squad, and it doesn't seem THAT great.


Well, that series is still not over same way. But like I said, if anything they were the favorite. Yes, you obviously underestimate Olympiacos if you do not understand basic fact that they have by far best player in Europe and no one can stop him.

Spanoulis makes complete nightmare for all the defense and coaches with his ability to score and pass and there is nothing any opponent can do about it, except to hope he plays bad. It is really that simple. Last year Olympiacos would have passed Real also, except they had several many injuries that it was too much for them and Spanoulis played hurt. Even then they almost won.

This year Spanoulis plays hurt and they still look like they will beat Barca. If they finish Barca and he gets 100% healthy by the final four, I would not want to be CSKA at the semi. All the pressure will again be on CSKA, and Spanoulis just lives for those moments. And again, there is nothing the defense can do to stop him if he is fully healthy.

It is either the pass or the score, one way or the other. So yes, you underestimate Olympiacos if you have not figured that out by now. As long as reffing is somewhat fair, which it usually is in Euroleague, if you have one single unstoppable player, you can pretty much win every time, even against teams with much bigger budgets. That is what Olympiacos is proving over and over and over.


Heck, I guess you are right.

I know Spanoulis is very good, and I like Printezis a lot, though he is not very consistent. But over than that, when I look at OLYs roster, I always end up being underwhelmed. A lot of journeymen Americans. Maybe I do underestimate them a lot, but none of Lojeski, Lafayette, Darden, Petway, Hunter... none of them seem that great at all. They also won two championships with Acie Law starting, of all people.
OLYs GM must be a damn genius, because he really knows how to build a successful team.


Actually, Acie Law was never their starter. Mantzaris always has been. But as I say here several times, there is no such thing as starters and bench in Europe. That's just an American thing. I try to explain that here several times. That is why guys like Papaloukas and Sergio Rodriguez have been Euroleague MVPs without ever starting a single game. Because it really honestly means nothing whether you start or not in Euroleague.

Anyway, being a journeyman in Europe is not a bad thing. Maybe in USA it is, but not in Europe. In Europe even the very best of the best players can be journeymen. So being a journeyman has no reflection on how good you are.

Also, remember that in Europe the coaches pick the players, not the GMs. It was Georgios Bartzokas, the former coach of Olympiacos that picked them. And yes, he has a very high basketball IQ. I think he is easily one of smartest European basketball coaches I have seen. And he is even smarter at evaluating players and putting together a team.

Anyway, you have to realize, those players from Olympiacos are extremely athletic and they play very hard and very physical defense. Maybe you are not impressed by any names, but if you watched them play defense and watched them attack the rim, play above the rim, run the floor - things like that, you would be impressed.

PZiv wrote:Real is in, which I don't like, but Barca is out which I like.
OLY, FEN, CSKA, REAL will be great on F4.


This should be a really great Final Four. And I have to say that the Olympiacos vs. Barca series was great, with the last 2 games being really good. Especially the last game, which was just amazing. I just hope to see even one game that good at the Final Four.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#113 » by GoSu » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:00 am

Both yesterdays games were amazing! Especially Olympiacos vs Barca, that winning shot :O
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#114 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:22 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
Actually, Acie Law was never their starter. Mantzaris always has been. But as I say here several times, there is no such thing as starters and bench in Europe. That's just an American thing. I try to explain that here several times. That is why guys like Papaloukas and Sergio Rodriguez have been Euroleague MVPs without ever starting a single game. Because it really honestly means nothing whether you start or not in Euroleague.

Anyway, being a journeyman in Europe is not a bad thing. Maybe in USA it is, but not in Europe. In Europe even the very best of the best players can be journeymen. So being a journeyman has no reflection on how good you are.

Also, remember that in Europe the coaches pick the players, not the GMs. It was Georgios Bartzokas, the former coach of Olympiacos that picked them. And yes, he has a very high basketball IQ. I think he is easily one of smartest European basketball coaches I have seen. And he is even smarter at evaluating players and putting together a team.

Anyway, you have to realize, those players from Olympiacos are extremely athletic and they play very hard and very physical defense. Maybe you are not impressed by any names, but if you watched them play defense and watched them attack the rim, play above the rim, run the floor - things like that, you would be impressed.


I wouldn't say being a starter doesn't mean anything in Europe. Game start strategy is still very important. I know what you are saying, in Europe the starter will not be necessarily better player then its bench counterpart, nor he will be more important. Thats especially the case with big budget super clubs, that has very deep rosters and has a luxury to start players like Rodriquez of the bench or change their starting lineups whatever they want. But on your average club, starter position still means a lot.

When I said journeymen, I probably meant that those players didn't had a strong career pedigree. They came from lesser know teams, so when I look at their names, I tend to underestimate them, they just weren't well known as some other Euro players. Barcelona is full of very well known players, They are your typical powerhouse that throws money at well established names. OLY on the other hand.... Before joining OLY, Dunston played for Cimberio Varese, Lojeski for Oostende (Belgium), Petway from Aegean B.C.,.. Darden and Lafayette had Euroleague experience prior, but they were mediocre at best.

So I really have to give OLYs general manager and coaching staff props, for finding those players and building a very sound team. Thats a very hard thing to do. I believe they are the best defensive team in the Euroleague. And when you have all those defenders do what they do, while having Spaoulis on the other end, thats a winning combination for sure.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#115 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:31 pm

UcanUwill wrote:I wouldn't say being a starter doesn't mean anything in Europe. Game start strategy is still very important. I know what you are saying, in Europe the starter will not be necessarily better player then its bench counterpart, nor he will be more important. Thats especially the case with big budget super clubs, that has very deep rosters and has a luxury to start players like Rodriquez of the bench or change their starting lineups whatever they want. But on your average club, starter position still means a lot.

When I said journeymen, I probably meant that those players didn't had a strong career pedigree. They came from lesser know teams, so when I look at their names, I tend to underestimate them, they just weren't well known as some other Euro players. Barcelona is full of very well known players, They are your typical powerhouse that throws money at well established names. OLY on the other hand.... Before joining OLY, Dunston played for Cimberio Varese, Lojeski for Oostende (Belgium), Petway from Aegean B.C.,.. Darden and Lafayette had Euroleague experience prior, but they were mediocre at best.

So I really have to give OLYs general manager and coaching staff props, for finding those players and building a very sound team. Thats a very hard thing to do. I believe they are the best defensive team in the Euroleague. And when you have all those defenders do what they do, while having Spaoulis on the other end, thats a winning combination for sure.


Coaches in Euroleague are not picking starters and bench for rotation places by how good the players are. they only do that for the minutes played. They are picking starters and bench roles by how good the players play either to start the game, or coming off the bench. Like how Popovich uses Manu off the bench because he plays better coming off the bench. Something he picked up from Euroleague coaches actually and is still baffling to other NBA coaches that ask "why not start Ginobili'?

They simply use each player in the role that best fits them, which is by far more logical than saying each player must start or come off the bench just based on a strict caste system. Being a starter or not in Euroleague means absolutely nothing about how good the player is or is not.

And again, it is not the GM or coaches of Olympiacos to give credit for that, it would be their former coach Bartzokas. he is the one responsible for selecting the roster. As far as I know there is only one team in Euroleague where the GM has any say in the roster selections and that is Fenerbahce, where the GM there has a unique power along with the coach to choose players.

In every other team basically the coaches get them. In Olympiacos, the coach chooses all the players. And from what I know of Bartzokas, he was known as being the most detailed player selector in Europe and was extremely meticulous in how he selected players.

Whenever he had a position need and a player he had to select for that position, he would get a list of all the available free agents within his price range, and then he would watch every single game they played during the previous season. He would supposedly watch every game of about 250-300 players then for example of the power forward position if he needed a power forward or the small forward position if he needed a small forward, etc.

Then he would make a list of all the players he wanted at each position in order and offer them a contract, going down the list one by one. Eventually he would get to a player that would accept the contract being offered, so even if it was a 4th or 5th option, that was out of say 300 players he scouted personally over every game played in Europe, from leagues like Italy, Israel, Turkey, Belgium, Greece, D-League, Eurocup - leagues like that being chosen because of the general idea being that the players either would want to play in Olympiacos or were making low money and would not cost too much to sign.

Bartzokas is basically the greatest talent elevator and moneyball manager I have ever seen in Euroleague. He lost Pero Antic, Acie Law, Kyle Hines, Kostas Papanikolaou, Marko Keselj, Stratos Perperoglou, Martynus Gecevicius, Lazaros Papadopoulos, Andreas Glyniadakis, Michalis Pelekanos, and Georgi Shermadini to free agency basically because after Olympiacos won Euroleague championships they could not afford to keep such players and even in cases where they wanted to replace some of them with other players they could not afford replacement players at anywhere near the same contracts. So even like help players that they did not need to keep really and might have wanted to replace with better players if they had money, they lost and then had no money to replace them with anyone.

It was like they lost almost their entire team and surely almost their whole main rotation. Just Spanoulis, Sloukas, Mantzaris, Printezis was basically all they kept and their third string point guard Katsivelis. Bartzokas rebuilt their whole team with players like Petway, Dunston, Lojeski, Papapetrou, Hunter, Lafayette, Agravanis and did it with the team cutting their budget by huge amounts.

And maybe the names don't mean anything or sound big,

but Petway is not much different level wise from Antic. He's worse on offense, although he is a better shooter with more range, but Antic is a lot more skilled and complete. But Petway is much better on defense and much more athletic by many times.

Lojeski is better than Papanikolaou and I don't think that one is even very close to be honest.

Dunston is about the same level player as Hines, but in a much bigger body and so he does not get over matched so much as Hines did.

Hunter is much better than Hines is.

Lafayette is not as good as Law is as a player, not at all, but Law was only healthy and available as a player about 1/3 of a season and usually he missed all of the championship games with injuries. So it was like he was never there for the most part. Lafayette is like an iron man and never misses games and is always healthy and is very dependable, durable, reliable player.

Papapetrou is definitely nowhere close to as good as Perperoglou is, but he is much same case as someone like Hezonja. He is just a kid that is too young and overwhelmed for this level at such an age. But he has very high level talent and can be a very good player. He reminds a lot of the Greek player Michalis Kakiouzis that used to play for Barca and was for sure one of best players in Spanish League and Euroleague in his time.

Agravanis is another one same as Papapetrou and Hezonja too young for such levels, but very talented and can be a very big player in future. His physical skill and physical level is really high for a 6-10 and he should be very high in NBA mock lists if NBA scouts knew what they were doing on young talents in Europe.

So even on the gambles on the young talents that Bartzokas took, he hit home runs. I was very surprised when he resigned as Olympiacos coach that they did not keep him as talent manager, scout, elevator, make some kind of special position like that "special adviser" position for him. I guess it is because again coaches make the player choices and they wanted the new coach there to have those choices. But the team they have there could start to drop in future without him making the selections. He is clearly smartest guy in evaluating European basketball by far. He would make killer NBA GM.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#116 » by UcanUwill » Thu May 7, 2015 11:43 am

Great Britain will have an Euroleague team next season. I wonder how many Brits actually care though.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#117 » by TheTrooper » Thu May 7, 2015 2:33 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Great Britain will have an Euroleague team next season. I wonder how many Brits actually care though.

I hate modren sport with all this crap. I mean....better give one more spot to Russia, Spain, Turkey or even Germany, they too have big markets and have money if that is the only criteria for having an Euroleague team..... at least someone from those places plays and watches basketball.....but no, they want to promote the sport in a nation that is time after time showing no interest at all for the sport.
All about how big the "potential market" is and the money. :banghead:
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#118 » by UcanUwill » Fri May 8, 2015 9:16 am

TheTrooper wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Great Britain will have an Euroleague team next season. I wonder how many Brits actually care though.

I hate modren sport with all this crap. I mean....better give one more spot to Russia, Spain, Turkey or even Germany, they too have big markets and have money if that is the only criteria for having an Euroleague team..... at least someone from those places plays and watches basketball.....but no, they want to promote the sport in a nation that is time after time showing no interest at all for the sport.
All about how big the "potential market" is and the money. :banghead:


I am all for lesser teams getting a chance, but they should really have an extensive qualification tournament, Champions league style. So we could get the most deserving teams through natural elimination/sifting.

They already had a small qualification tournament before, I don't get why they don't expand on that idea and invite more teams from lesser leagues.
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#119 » by UcanUwill » Fri May 8, 2015 6:41 pm

All first team and Second team announced !

FIRST team

Image Boban Marjanovic
Image Felipe Reys
Image Nemanja Bjelica
Image Vassilis Spanoulis
Image Milos Teodosic

SECOND team

Image Ante Tomic
Image Devin Smith
Image Rudy Fernandez
Image Andrew Goudelock
Image Nande De Colo
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Re: Euroleague discussion thread 

Post#120 » by wildvikeswolves » Thu May 14, 2015 12:44 pm

UcanUwill wrote:All first team and Second team announced !

FIRST team

Image Boban Marjanovic
Image Felipe Reys
Image Nemanja Bjelica
Image Vassilis Spanoulis
Image Milos Teodosic

SECOND team

Image Ante Tomic
Image Devin Smith
Image Rudy Fernandez
Image Andrew Goudelock
Image Nande De Colo


My dude! MVP! :D

Now get over to Minnesota Nemnaja!

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