Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time)

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styLesdavis
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#61 » by styLesdavis » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:46 pm

morol wrote:I think it'll take a few years after his retirement before some finally recognize what a special player Pau is. He's up there in top 5 with Petrovic, Sabonis, Gallis and Dirk, a tier above likes of Bodiroga, Ginobili and Navarro.


Ginobili is from argentina...
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#62 » by jinxed » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:01 pm

styLesdavis wrote:
morol wrote:I think it'll take a few years after his retirement before some finally recognize what a special player Pau is. He's up there in top 5 with Petrovic, Sabonis, Gallis and Dirk, a tier above likes of Bodiroga, Ginobili and Navarro.


Ginobili is from argentina...



Last I heard Argentina was international...I guess I could be wrong though...
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#63 » by styLesdavis » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:27 am

jinxed wrote:
styLesdavis wrote:
morol wrote:I think it'll take a few years after his retirement before some finally recognize what a special player Pau is. He's up there in top 5 with Petrovic, Sabonis, Gallis and Dirk, a tier above likes of Bodiroga, Ginobili and Navarro.


Ginobili is from argentina...



Last I heard Argentina was international...I guess I could be wrong though...


Argentina IS international. Congratulations, you are right.
But take a second guess if the thread title is about "Euro-internationals" or just "internationals"...

Argentina is not Europe.

Not.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#64 » by reck0n3r » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:49 pm

It begins and ends with Maceo Baston. HYFR.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#65 » by Regulio » Fri Apr 6, 2012 5:47 am

Yeah I think Dirk should be no1. He is simply great and didn't have the injury problems like Sabonis. But Sabonis was a better talent, no question about that. He is one of the most talented players ever. It is really a shame that all those injuries stopped him from becoming an all-time great in NBA. Well even without knees in his 30s he was putting up ~22-23 PER. That's a top15-20 player in the league? His per36 numbers were great. Imagine what he could do if he was healthy. Honestly I haven't seen more skilled C in my life.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#66 » by carloslisboa » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:02 pm

Petro and Sabas, best ex-aequo.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTAbC95gy2g[/youtube]


Here are some spanish players who could be considered second line.
They lacked National Team success...

Alberto Herreros (refused a contract to back up Reggie Miller):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jSPGhegF6o[/youtube]

Jordi Villacampa:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m3o7G7xnkM[/youtube]
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#67 » by Gregoire » Fri May 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Euro:
1.Dirk
2.Pau Gasol
3.Petrovic
4.Sabonis
5.Gallis/Parker

International:
1.Dirk
2.Nash
3.Yao
4.Gasol
5.Ginobili/Bogut
nate33 wrote:

Yeah, when ever I make all time comparisons, I pretty much ignore the pre-3PT-line era. The game was so different then. It's apples and oranges. Those guys may be better or may be worse, we're never really going to know.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#68 » by Beorn » Fri May 24, 2013 11:29 pm

Sabonis is the no.1 above Dirk & Pau. In the International column, Bogut shouldn;t be up there, neither should Yao IMO
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#69 » by rmnts » Sat May 25, 2013 7:05 pm

FIBA's 50 greatest players
I think everyone should look at Top 10 players for some guidance.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#70 » by 1hit1team » Sat May 25, 2013 9:49 pm

omg!? PAU? PARKER? guys cmon.. SABONIS is nr 1 period(no even close to 2nd).
But 2nd to 5 is hard to say but if lets try it.
2 Galis
3 Dirk
4 Petrovic
5 Kukocic
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#71 » by Petrofor3 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:20 pm

droponov wrote:
Mefisto wrote:
guille_4 wrote:Dirk
Sabonis
Pau Gasol





The rest.


Pau is far away from top 3, put Petrovic instead.


Nonsense, he's absolutely right. Dirk, Sabonis, Gasol, large gap, the rest. Petrovic, Bodiroga, Parker, Kukoc, Belov, etc., in some order.

Petrovic wasn't even in the same planet of Gasol. I think Drazen is overrated these days because of his premature death. Also because he was a scorer and people tend to underrate non-scoring contributions. Petrovic was a very good player but not an All-NBA type like Gasol. A very good scorer and good shooter with awful defense and rebounding and pedestrian playmaking. Not sure who would be a good comparison among active players... maybe Michael Redd. Not exactly the same player, but he was at that level.


Petrovic was not a good shooter but a great shooter. The great Reggie Miller called him the best shooter he has ever seen. Petrovic was 3rd all Nba shooting guard before he died behind only Jordan and Drexler. Petrovic dominated europe like no other then maybe Sabonnis. Petrovic had a suberb basketball iq as well. This man was a great scorer and shooter and it will be a long time before you see a guard as good as Petrovic come from Europe.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#72 » by interbasket » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Not in any specific order, but obviously,

Dino Meneghin
Drazen Dalipagic
Sergey Belov
Kresimir Cosic
Radivoj Korac
Juan Antonio Corbalan
Drazen Petrovic
Nikos Galis
Arvydas Sabonis
Toni Kukoc
Sarunas Marciulionis
Dragan Kicanovic
Mirza Delibasic
Juan Antonio San Epifanio
Emiliano Rodriguez
Miki Berkovich
Sasha Djordjevic
Sasha Danilovic
Dejan Bodiroga
Vlade Divac
Detlef Schrempf
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Panagiotis Giannakis
Juan Carlos Navarro

Of these, I think the ones that stand out most would be,

Dino Meneghin
Drazen Dalipagic
Sergey Belov
Kresimir Cosic
Radivoj Korac
Drazen Petrovic
Nikos Galis
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Antonio San Epifanio
Dejan Bodiroga
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Juan Carlos Navarro

In the players of modern times in Europe, I can also say that Dimitris Diamantidis and Vassilis Spanoulis can be in these lists before their careers end.

Of course I left off some other great players, like Ramunas Siskauskas, Theo Papaloukas, Carlton Myers, Petar Naumoski, several others, etc.

But a top 5 list for right now, then it looks pretty solid for me is between these guys:

Dino Meneghin
Drazen Dalipagic
Sergey Belov
Drazen Petrovic
Nikos Galis
Arvydas Sabonis
Dejan Bodiroga
Pau Gasol
Dirk Nowitzki
Juan Carlos Navarro

I hope that Diamantidis and Spanoulis keep going for a few more years at their current level, so they can join. But it seems like Diamantidis is already starting to slow down and he retired from his national team way too early and that will probably hurt his legacy a bit.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#73 » by Kayariel » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:31 pm

tier1

nowitzki
sabonis
parker
divac
stojakovic

tier2

bodiroga
schrempf
navarro
petrovic
gasol
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#74 » by flyingvee » Wed Aug 7, 2013 1:56 pm

Seems to much emphasis is placed on how these guys did in the NBA or playing against the US. Parker does not belong in the top 5 period. Gasol also is getting too much love more so because he happened to win with the Lakers but also I don't think you can compare the competition levels the past decade with what it was before. This is the watered down era. An era where guys like Pekovic demand 15mil salaries, where as Pekovic20 years ago would not even be in the league.

So I have to give more weight to Sabonis, Petrovic and Galis. These guys dominated, and the emphasis is on dominating and being unstoppable in the era of powerhouse teams, a united Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union. Galis beat both these teams on several occasions, and they were stacked. And people forget he averaged 28ppg at Seton Hall. Yet he is dismissed cause he did not play in the NBA, frankly would have been interesting to see him on the Bird era Celtics.

Petrovic too was amazing but had a better supporting cast in Yugoslavia, but to his credit he did drop 112 points in a game and proved he was an all-star in the NBA.

Sabonis was solid all-around. I just think his legacy is shrouded too much on "what could of been" with his career hampered by injuries.

Dirk for sure. He did play after the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia had broken down, but still, he did dominate playing playing with lesser talent around him in Germany than Gasol did in the stacked Spanish teams.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#75 » by UcanUwill » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:38 am

Pau is not overrated, he is one of the best for sure. Pekovic wouldn't be in the league 20 years ago? What? Also, Euro competition was far weaker when Galis played. I think you got it backwards. Pau Gasol is definitely a higher caliber player than Galis was.


I love Navarro, but he is being overrated around here. He has a dominant floater, can score off the dribble and has great basketball IQ. But he is more or less a specialist. He has a lot of flaws, and he is not even that great at creating. Nothing about him screams tier 2 player of all time. He always was one of the best Euroleague players, but thats about it. You could make a case for Diamantidis or Siskauskas being better than Navarro, easily.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#76 » by flyingvee » Mon Sep 9, 2013 3:35 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Pau is not overrated, he is one of the best for sure. Pekovic wouldn't be in the league 20 years ago? What? Also, Euro competition was far weaker when Galis played. I think you got it backwards. Pau Gasol is definitely a higher caliber player than Galis was.


That is where you are wrong. The talent has not gotten better, just flashier. Also, international play is watered down now, period. Galis went up again beast of Soviet teams and Yugoslavia. Meaning Yugoslavia was an all-star team comprised of Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Montenegro and Macedonia. You're going to tell us that a team put together with the best players from those 6 countres would be weaker than the countries competing alone today? Same with the USSR, it would be Russia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Latvia and so on.

Pau has benefitted from playing with one of the best international teams of the past years and th eLakers eith Kobe. Just what did he win with Memphis?

A name a lot leave out because of "his lack of defense" is Oscar Schmidt, one of the deadliest shooters and scorers ever. Had Oscar gotten to play for an NBA coach, they would have shaped up his D a bit. In fact we forget how one-dimensional players like Alex English and Kiki Vandewheghe were known as great but they too didnt play a lick of defense nor rebound.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#77 » by UcanUwill » Mon Sep 9, 2013 4:09 pm

flyingvee wrote:
That is where you are wrong. The talent has not gotten better, just flashier. Also, international play is watered down now, period. Galis went up again beast of Soviet teams and Yugoslavia. Meaning Yugoslavia was an all-star team comprised of Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Montenegro and Macedonia. You're going to tell us that a team put together with the best players from those 6 countres would be weaker than the countries competing alone today? Same with the USSR, it would be Russia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Latvia and so on.

Pau has benefitted from playing with one of the best international teams of the past years and th eLakers eith Kobe. Just what did he win with Memphis?

A name a lot leave out because of "his lack of defense" is Oscar Schmidt, one of the deadliest shooters and scorers ever. Had Oscar gotten to play for an NBA coach, they would have shaped up his D a bit. In fact we forget how one-dimensional players like Alex English and Kiki Vandewheghe were known as great but they too didnt play a lick of defense nor rebound.


So you are saying European basketball haven't progressed in the past 25 years? Yes, European talent got better, significantly! Simple eye test shows the significant improvement. Saying the game just got flashier is pretentious conservative talk.

Soviets and Yugs were pure superpowers, a collection of basketball nations. Course those teams were very good, even by today standards. But the overall talent, the depth, individual talent, athleticism, all this gathered huge improvement.
And by the way, if you assemble all former Yugoslavian nations into one team now, you have a better team now. Some current Balkan and former Soviet countries might be worse, but thats because they all split. Thats logic.

You really think Galis would have been equally head and shoulders above everybody else if he was playing today? You really think that?

Pau Gasol is amazing player. The way people dismiss him is criminal. He is dominant among other Euros. If he never happened to play in the NBA, he would have been an Euro legend.
What did fine with Memphis. What he supposed to do? You think Nikos Galis would have done a better job?

I think Schmidt is very overrated. Ultimate chucker with bad approach. His strengths are very concentrated, while everything else are red flags. Player like him shouldn't be considered among all time bests.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#78 » by flyingvee » Mon Sep 9, 2013 4:57 pm

This is where we have a misunderstanding. Am I saying Galis is head and shoulders above Pau and others? No I am not. I am saying he belongs in the top 5 for what he accomplished and against who he did it. Of course the talent level has improved in Europe, but you can't negate what those guys did in the 80's/90's just based on that. If you do that then you negate the greatness of both Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin because they did it against lesser talent. I'm just saying that Galis deserves more credit than he gets because he essentially did beat these superpower teams basically on his own. Now both Fassoulas and Giannakis were great players but nothing like the talent the Soviets or Yugoslavia had. Meaning both Sabonis and Petrovic had a whole lot more help. The fact that Pau played with Kobe and a great Spanish National team does not make him better than Dirk nor Sabonis.

The parallel I see for Galis is Iverson. Not that their playing styles were similar at all, but that fact that Galis led a team of 'Ok' players just like Iverson did, Mutombo was a great defensive presence as was the Spider Fassoulas, difference is where as Iverson did not beat the superpower (Lakers) Galis did.

As for Oscar, it's a mixed review. If I were making a team would I have him as the star? I'd probably go with another of the top five candidates BUT STILL, when you can average 41.9ppg at the 88 Olympics against the best international players in the world, thats something, even for a chucker. Cause as your teams only scorer, you know everyteam tried to clamp down on him and no one could stop him. Maybe not top 5 but one of the best for sure.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#79 » by UcanUwill » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:15 am

Well, ok, Galis accomplished more than pretty much anyone else. Thats for certain. And he is remembered as legendary player.
But for me, when I think top players, I think the best, individually and all. Galis was ahead of his time, but he is not top 5 player of all time.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#80 » by Italians in NBA » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:55 am

This list is very difficult. Different players, of different countries in different basketball's periods.

Top 3:
- Dražen Petrović
- Arvidas Sabonis
- Toni Kukoc

The others without an order:
- Nikos Galis
- Manu Ginobili
- Dejan Bodiroga
- Vlade Divac
- Dino Meneghin
- Dražen Dalipagić
- Juan Antonio San Epifanio
- Oscar Schmidt
- Pau Gasol
- Sarunas Marciulionis
- Dirk Nowitzki

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