Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time)

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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#81 » by 1hit1team » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:13 pm

Italians in NBA wrote:This list is very difficult. Different players, of different countries in different basketball's periods.

Top 3:
- Dražen Petrović
- Arvidas Sabonis
- Toni Kukoc

The others without an order:
- Nikos Galis
- Manu Ginobili
- Dejan Bodiroga
- Vlade Divac
- Dino Meneghin
- Dražen Dalipagić
- Juan Antonio San Epifanio
- Oscar Schmidt
- Pau Gasol
- Sarunas Marciulionis
- Dirk Nowitzki


Kukoc in top 3? change with dirk and its ok
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#82 » by loyal » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:38 am

hi!

nowadays:

1-PARKER
2-GINOBILI
3-NOWITZKI
4-MARC GASOL

c´mon!
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#83 » by Italians in NBA » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:19 am

1hit1team wrote:
Italians in NBA wrote:This list is very difficult. Different players, of different countries in different basketball's periods.

Top 3:
- Dražen Petrović
- Arvidas Sabonis
- Toni Kukoc

The others without an order:
- Nikos Galis
- Manu Ginobili
- Dejan Bodiroga
- Vlade Divac
- Dino Meneghin
- Dražen Dalipagić
- Juan Antonio San Epifanio
- Oscar Schmidt
- Pau Gasol
- Sarunas Marciulionis
- Dirk Nowitzki


Kukoc in top 3? change with dirk and its ok

I agree for the entire NBA's career. But til Toni was in Europe playing his natural role (in Chicago Pippen was in the same Kukoc's real role) without bulking is body, mantaining his thin frame he was the most dominant European player (with Petrovic) in his club (Benetton Treviso) and in his fantastic National Team, the Yugoslavia. Dirk is fantastic for sure and is one of my favorite current Euro players with Ginobili, Parker, Navarro and Bargnani that's going to have a fantastic year playing in his 1st NBA's real team, in his role near a good Center (obviously if Andrea finally can stay healthy).
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#84 » by UcanUwill » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:28 am

Putting Kukoc in top 3 is way off if you ask me, you as Italian and Possible Benetton fan, are clearly pushed towards him a lil too much. He was on his prime playing for Chicago and Croatia, and he wasn't That great, he was not Dirk Nowitzki. As a FIBA and NBA fan, I fear Dirk Nowitzki, I know he means business, even when his teammates were complete crap, Dirk was able to steal a game alone at times.
It's just not the case with Kukoc. Playing for Croatia, he had match ups who outplayed him more than once. Thats not a top 3 player of all time.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#85 » by pohani komarac » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:42 pm

Not like Dirk, but Toni is so underrated this days. many don't remeber Toni main strenght was making evryone better around him.

[[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpYOEV2Pj8[/youtube]
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#86 » by mamadontcry » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:57 am

SABONIS
DIRK
EPIFANIO
GALIS
PETROVIC
#Phil The Master
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#87 » by sisibilio » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:44 pm

pohani komarac wrote:Not like Dirk, but Toni is so underrated this days. many don't remeber Toni main strenght was making evryone better around him.

[[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpYOEV2Pj8[/youtube]

Talentwise he was top 5 for sure, it's a shame he bulked up so much when he went to Chicago, that mesed up his game quite a bit.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#88 » by theman » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:54 pm

cloudXXI wrote:Detlef Schrempf is never mentioned.

I did not put him in top5, but he deserves some appreciation. Maybe it is because he never played in Europe.


I remember when Petrovic died. The were talking about it on "The Sports Reporters" and they mentioned that people were referring to Petrovic as the best European player in the NBA and all the host agreed, with no disrespect to Petrovic, that that honor should go to Detlef Schrempf.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#89 » by Effercon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:25 am

Europe alone:
1. Dirk
2. Sabonis
3. Pau
4. Petrovic
5. Divac

All internationals:
1. Hakeem
2. Dirk
3. Sabonis
4. Nash
5. Ewing
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#90 » by DQuinn1575 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:19 am

Europe

Dirk
Sabonis
Petrovic
Sergei Belov
Pau Gasol
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#91 » by JeromeGraham » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:30 am

It's so typical to exalt old players. Of course, there have been so many great talents in Europe 30 years ago. But this generation have made what no one did before. They have been elite in the nba. Not 30, but 20 years ago, it was madness to think about a European player winning the mvp of the nba, it was crazy to think european players would become an important part of championship team.

flyingvee wrote:Pau has benefitted from playing with one of the best international teams of the past years and th eLakers eith Kobe. Just what did he win with Memphis?


¿What? So Pau it's a mediocre player because he did not win a championship with Battier and Miker Miller. Great. Pau got with memphis their first playoffs. Pau is an unique talent. He has won so many titles. Nba, Spain league and spanish national team. He transformed the Lakers into a top team. They played three consecutive finals and they won 2 rings. Please, you must remember how bad were that Lakers. And Pau has led one of the greatest european teams in history. Spain have won world championship, many european championship and they have been close to beat USA in the Olympics. USA with nba players, not NCAA. Spain would have not made all this without Pau. Both Lakers and Spain have benefitted from playing with Pau. He made them winners.



Of course, you can not compare the competition levels the past decade with what it was before. But, lets give the value they have to the players who have reigned in the nba. The Dirk, Pau o Parker.
Of course, I'm not going to discredit the talent of some players like Petrovic or Sabonis. Because they started what this last generation have definitely made.

We have to be fair. It's really difficult to compare players from different generations. But I think we have to bear in mind both the individual talent as the collective prizes. And not judge players by youtube videos.

For me, the Top European Players:

1.Dirk Nowitzki
2.Drazen Petrovic
3.Pau Gasol
4.Arvydas Sabonis
5.Toni Kukoc
6. Tony Parker
7. Dino Meneghin
8. Dragan Kićanović
9. Dejan Bodiroga
10.Šarūnas Marčiulioni

Divac, Navarro, Stojakovic, Cosic, Jasikevicius....so many.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#92 » by AK47MVP » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:36 pm

Gregoire wrote:International:
1.Dirk
2.Nash
3.Yao
4.Gasol
5.Ginobili/Bogut


I am sorry but if you think Yao, Gasol or Bogut are even close to Sabonis level than you are highly delusional.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#93 » by AK47MVP » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:43 pm

Top 3 tier in no particular order are not questionable in my opinion - it is Dirk, Sabonis and Petrovic. Next tier is way bigger and I would put at least 10 players there:
Parker, Schmidt, Ginobili, Gasol, Galis, Kukoc, Divac, Marciulionis, Kirilenko and Nash.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#94 » by Tomazan » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:23 pm

Gasol over Sabonis? :D wow. I mean Gasol is/was a great player but that's too much.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#95 » by element » Mon Aug 4, 2014 5:48 pm

There is one name that gets normally forgotten in these kind of lists, and it's Tim Duncan. The Virgin Islands are not formally part of the US territory, so we can consider Tim "international", and it's the best "international" 4 IMO.

So my 5 is

Steve Nash
Drazen Petrovic
DIrk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan
Arvydas Sabonis

And for european players, not naming Petrovic and Sabonis, who are on a level on their own, you can almost pick any name on the 80's - 90's from Yugoslavia, ex yougoslavian republics, Russia , Greece, Italy and a few spaniards. The level of players by the time was soo good it's even difficult to pick a few.
Some players that tend to be forgotten are the Russians (and ex-russians), like Marciulionis, Volkov, Tikhonenko... even Tachenko was not only a big dude.... Some spaniards like San Epifanio, Villacampa, Fernando Martín, Corbalán... later Yugoslavian (after Croatia split) like Djordjevic, Bodiroga, Danilovic (some are Serbian), and other Greek players like Fasoulas or GIannakis.... Italian Dino Meneghin

European basketball was crazy good by the time.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#96 » by Genjuro » Sat Aug 9, 2014 11:01 am

It's very hard to compare these guys. It's not only because they played different eras, but because of their personal issues. You can say the likes of Nowitzki, Sabonis, Petrovic, Gasol, Parker, and probably Kukoc are above anybody else when talking about European guys (let's consider Gallis American to easier things).

Nowitzki is the top guy IMO being the NBA MVP and the absolute go-to-guy in a winning team. It's something you don't really envision anybody else doing. Of course, a healthy Sabonis might've been able, but he had an injury-plagued career, and I think we should judge the real world (which is one of the biggest problems here).

As for the rest, I find extremely hard to rank them. It depends a lot on how much you weight NBA vs. FIBA basketball, how much you weight peaking vs. having a long career, etc.

I do think Bodiroga is overrated when mentioned with that group. Yes, he was awesome in 1998 and 2002 WCs, but the first one was a watered-down tournament, and despite his heroics, I think Stojakovic played better the second one. All in all, he dominated Europe when pretty much the best European players were already in the NBA.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#97 » by Jaivl » Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:34 pm

1. Dirk

2. Sabonis

3. Gasol

The rest.
Maf wrote:I'd undestand if anyone had KG outside top ten PF's. Having him top five all-time? Often I jokingly rank Kyle Korver as the GOAT but I never try to fake serious discussion about it.

ShawnKemp96 wrote:Infact he made a lot more steals than the statisticians think.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#98 » by jptremblay » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:31 pm

What if Sabonis have been healthy when he comes to the NBA? obviously he will become the best Euro player of all-time and one of the best centers of history, but he wasn´t healthy. Even with all those injuries, Sabonis put very good numbers in his years on Blazers and was very important to the team, but he never was at the level of Nowitzi, Parker or Gasol peak. So being realistic, this is the top 5 list for me:

1.Dirk
2.Pau
3.T.Parker
4.Sabonis
5.Petrovic
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#99 » by Spalato » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:52 pm

Putting Jasikevicius and Bodiroga in any euro-best list is an insult to the other candidates. Jasikevicius was a total flop in the NBA and Bodiroga was too chicken to come over, even at a time when euros had already invaded the NBA and had proven that they can compete in the best league in the world.

Euro-international players have a legitimate excuse for not playing in the NBA in the 70s and 80s, but those who made their name in the 90s and after have no excuse whatsoever. Bodiroga disqualified himself for being a wimp. I'm guessing he knew he would have been exposed.
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Re: Top 5 Euro-International Players (All-Time) 

Post#100 » by VUK1 » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:01 am

Spalato wrote:Putting Jasikevicius and Bodiroga in any euro-best list is an insult to the other candidates. Jasikevicius was a total flop in the NBA and Bodiroga was too chicken to come over, even at a time when euros had already invaded the NBA and had proven that they can compete in the best league in the world.

Euro-international players have a legitimate excuse for not playing in the NBA in the 70s and 80s, but those who made their name in the 90s and after have no excuse whatsoever. Bodiroga disqualified himself for being a wimp. I'm guessing he knew he would have been exposed.


Sorry mate but you're being a bit too subjective. Bodiroga's medal tally in both international and club competitions well and truly puts him in discussions. FWIW I have a Serbian background and my top 3 is as follows:

1. & 2. Drazen & Nowitzki - i cant separate these guys.
3. Sabonis

I think after these three there are genuine arguments for and against a number of players, and as I've said, Bodiroga's metal tally puts him well and truly in the discussion.

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