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Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Mon Jul 6, 2015 9:13 pm
by Von Bismarck
I never said Croatia has been more successful than Turkey in youth selections lately, what I said is there's no Turkish player close to being All-Star potential in the NBA like Hezonja or Bender are. Plain simple. Saric on the other hand is not athletic enough to be an All-Star caliber in the NBA but he will make a good 6th man or an average starter on a contender. If we're speaking success, Saric has won 2 gold medals at youth competitions and is probably the best Euro youth player in last 2 decades when we consider he was MVP 2 times and had incredible statistics all-around.
Anyways, let's speak about present. Turkey, with hyped Korkmaz, got demolished by 35 margin vs Croatia the other day, Korkmaz got dominated by Slavica who's not even TOP 5 talent in Croatia. All that with rotation of only 9 players and some of the best guys not playing. How about that?
What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Mon Jul 6, 2015 9:34 pm
by paulius33
Lithuania
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:13 pm
by Chalk1
Von Bismarck wrote:I never said Croatia has been more successful than Turkey in youth selections lately, what I said is there's no Turkish player close to being All-Star potential in the NBA like Hezonja or Bender are. Plain simple.
No, you said Turkey's young talent is "nowhere" near as good as Croatia's. Now you've moved the goalposts.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Mon Jul 6, 2015 10:15 pm
by Von Bismarck
Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:I never said Croatia has been more successful than Turkey in youth selections lately, what I said is there's no Turkish player close to being All-Star potential in the NBA like Hezonja or Bender are. Plain simple.
No, you said Turkey's young talent is "nowhere" near as good as Croatia's. Now you've moved the goalposts.
What I said is Osman, Korkmaz and Sipahi are good players but nowhere near the potential of Hezonja and Bender + Saric.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Mon Jul 6, 2015 11:12 pm
by Chalk1
Von Bismarck wrote:Still nowhere near good as Croatia.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:50 pm
by sisibilio
Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:Still nowhere near good as Croatia. Korkmaz, Sipahi and Osman are good but nowhere near the likes of Saric, Hezonja or Bender.
Pretty crazy how Turkey's young talent is "
nowhere" near Croatia's yet they've won 4 of the most recent youth competitions in Europe since 2012, while Croatia has only won one (2012 U18). Also it was other players like Okben Ulubay and Egemen Guven who were the tourney MVPs in two of those tourneys. Turkey's young talent runs deep.
Also, moving forward Turkey will have a better set of veterans like Asik, Kanter, Ilyasova, Aldemir and Preldzic to help usher in the new generation.
Having success in junior tournaments does not equal having a bright future in the senior level, it's the top talents that matter and it's hard to argue against Croatia in that regard.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:10 pm
by Chalk1
sisibilio wrote:Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:Still nowhere near good as Croatia. Korkmaz, Sipahi and Osman are good but nowhere near the likes of Saric, Hezonja or Bender.
Pretty crazy how Turkey's young talent is "
nowhere" near Croatia's yet they've won 4 of the most recent youth competitions in Europe since 2012, while Croatia has only won one (2012 U18). Also it was other players like Okben Ulubay and Egemen Guven who were the tourney MVPs in two of those tourneys. Turkey's young talent runs deep.
Also, moving forward Turkey will have a better set of veterans like Asik, Kanter, Ilyasova, Aldemir and Preldzic to help usher in the new generation.
Having success in junior tournaments does not equal having a bright future in the senior level, it's the top talents that matter and it's hard to argue against Croatia in that regard.
No it does not equal success at the senior level, but it is a good predictor. I'm not arguing against Croatia. Croatia has some really great talent coming up. It's the notion that Turkey is "nowhere" near Croatia that I took issue with.
Predicting individual player success of youngsters is no different than predicting teams, so we likewise can't jump the gun on Saric, Hezonja or Bender being better than any Turkish players, without falling into the same trip.
And Korkmaz has much potential as any Croatian. He did better in his first year in the Euroleague than Hezonja in either of his first two seasons, and Bender who is the same age as Korkmaz is still playing on junior teams. Korkmaz is a big time talent.
We'll see what happens, maybe Croatia's youngsters turn out better and have more success at the senior level, maybe not. Now I'm really looking forward to this matchup in the coming years.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Sun Aug 2, 2015 1:30 am
by PZiv
Well since we havent got all qualifiers here's my a long long list of possible outcomes.
1. USA
2/3. France/Serbia/Lithuania/Spain
They're favs to get out of Eurobasket tournament and as such should be the ones that will be in the run for the medals.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:02 pm
by Chalk1
Von Bismarck wrote:Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:I never said Croatia has been more successful than Turkey in youth selections lately, what I said is there's no Turkish player close to being All-Star potential in the NBA like Hezonja or Bender are. Plain simple.
No, you said Turkey's young talent is "nowhere" near as good as Croatia's. Now you've moved the goalposts.
What I said is Osman, Korkmaz and Sipahi are good players but nowhere near the potential of Hezonja and Bender + Saric.
Going to have to add Onuralp Bitim to the list. He's having THE breakout performance at the U16 right now.
Turkey about to get their fourth medal this summer in the four youth competitions.
Korkmaz
Bitim
Guven
Yurtseven
Osman
Ulubay
Sipahi
Gecim
Ugurlu
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:15 pm
by Von Bismarck
Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:Chalk1 wrote:
No, you said Turkey's young talent is "nowhere" near as good as Croatia's. Now you've moved the goalposts.
What I said is Osman, Korkmaz and Sipahi are good players but nowhere near the potential of Hezonja and Bender + Saric.
Going to have to add Onuralp Bitim to the list. He's having THE breakout performance at the U16 right now.
Turkey about to get their fourth medal this summer in the four youth competitions.
Korkmaz
Bitim
Guven
Yurtseven
Osman
Ulubay
Sipahi
Gecim
Ugurlu
Kenan Sipahi showed absolutely nothing in his senior basketball career so far and he's 20,3 y/o. He hasn't improved a bit. Look at Saric, he's just a bit older than him and was practically carrying Efes last year and the season before that he absolutely dominated in the ABA league.
Saric
Hezonja
Bender
Zizic
Zubac
Arapovic
Mazalin
Slavica
But I do agree that after Croatia, Turkey has the best young potentials. That is, however, not weird at all since Turkey is a huge country.
Re: What Countries will Medal in Mens Basketball in Brazil?
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:29 am
by Chalk1
Von Bismarck wrote:Chalk1 wrote:Von Bismarck wrote:
Kenan Sipahi showed absolutely nothing in his senior basketball career so far and he's 20,3 y/o. He hasn't improved a bit. Look at Saric, he's just a bit older than him and was practically carrying Efes last year and the season before that he absolutely dominated in the ABA league.
S
He did manage to start in the EL Final Four as a teenager. How many times that has happened I don't know but it's pretty rare.
Injuries have set him back though.