Olympic Qualifiers 2016

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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#81 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jul 7, 2016 1:33 am

Dr Music wrote:This whole thing with Greece and the National Teams has always been confusing. Kurt Rambis got to play a year with AEK because his grandfather was Greek. I moved to Greece at 14. By 16 I had progressed enough to be practicing with both the local junior and mens teams as well as being invited to played with the 16-under and 20-under team. Despite both my parents (and all decendents)being born in Greece, I was denied the paperwork on the basis that I was not Greek but American having been born in the US. So never got to play in Greece except for playing for the American High School there along with Rony Seikaly and getting to compete in tourneys with guys like Steve Kerr who was going to school in Cairo. Of course for years later I could not move to Greece because then I'd have to go to the Greek army, thus I would have to go because I was Greek, but I could not play ball because I was NOT Greek. So they pick and choose who they want to play.


Greece changes its laws since then. You are talking about two different issues. Seikaly qualified for Greek citizenship, and to play in the national team, and he eventually did get Greek citizenship. The reason he did not play in the Greek national team was simple. He did not want to wait for his citizenship to get processed. He had to stay in Greece to do that, but he wanted to go to the US to play college basketball.

So instead of waiting to get his Greek citizenship at the time (he got it later), he went to the US. But then when he was in the US, he got naturalized and Team USA put him in the world championship. That ended his eligibility of playing with Greece.

Since that time, the laws for citizenship were amended from that time of Seikaly's case. Back then, you had to wait for citizenship based on when you applied, and you could not hurry it up. They changed the rules that if you could "contribute something important to Greek society" (it's worded something to that effect), that your processing time would be sped up and you would move to the head of the list, along with others in the same situation, and get citizenship quicker.

So what used to take several years of time (like for Seikaly), became now I think it is just 1 year of time in most cases, and even like maybe 6 months of time in some cases.

They are not picking and choosing who gets citizenship or who gets to play for the national team. FIBA's rules won't permit that, and in fact they would ban the Greek national team from all competitions if they were doing that. That is against FIBA's bylaws, and they have banned numerous national teams for doing stuff like that.

Greece basketball federation follows the rules of nationality and national team eligibility set forth under the law. They are not randomly picking one person or another for eligibility. If they were doing that, FIBA would definitely ban them, as that is an egregious violation of FIBA rules.

Today, Seikaly would not have had to wait so many years for his citizenship, and he would have gotten it like in a year probably. So he would have not played for Team USA, and he would have ended up playing for Greece instead. Today, the situation would have played out differently.

The case of Peja though was not like that. He could play for Greece's national team as a naturalized player, FIBA allows 1 now and allowed 2 back then. But Greece's government decided that the players from ex Yugoslavia that came to Greece as kids to escape the situation in Yugoslavia could not represent Greece because of the extremely hostile political situation, and Greece did not want to get accused of doing anything politically motivated in that way. After that happened, they basically just set a precedent that no naturalized players could be in the national teams. Even though it was pretty much that way before, they made it a policy.

As far as Rambis is concerned, I don't remember if he was considered for the national team or not. Obviously, he would have been eligible, with the Greek American diaspora rule. But I can't remember ever hearing that he was recruited to the national team. Which is is a bit odd now that I think about it. Maybe he did not want to play for the national team.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#82 » by Prez » Thu Jul 7, 2016 2:25 am

Giannis with another dominant performance as usual, by far the best Greek player on the planet. If he can get Greece even within 20 points against Croatia with the lack of talent around him, he's cemented as the Greek GOAT imo.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#83 » by mojo13 » Fri Jul 8, 2016 5:08 pm

Milbuck wrote:Giannis with another dominant performance as usual, by far the best Greek player on the planet. If he can get Greece even within 20 points against Croatia with the lack of talent around him, he's cemented as the Greek GOAT imo.


Giannis looked pretty bad today in the loss to Croatia. He has no outside shot at this point in his career. (no one on Greece can shoot)

3/14 FGs for the game (21%). 0/7 from 3pt with 6 turnovers. Yikes.

That lack of shooting is going to be tough for the Bucks to overcome. And he will be nowhere near the greatest Greek player of all time until he develops a decent outside shot, at least in international ball. He will be a very good player in the NBA even without an outside shot as the game is more open and more reliant on athleticism over actual basketball skills. Can he become the GOAT Greek NBA player? Probably. But GOAT Greek player of international ball? Long ways to go to answer that.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#84 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:11 pm

Milbuck wrote:I politely ask you to stop trolling and making things up about what I said. I watched Eurobasket and I'm sorry if it bothers you but Spanoulis legitimately was garbage against Spain and single handedly cost Greece with his awful defense and low IQ offense. Giannis was tearing it up defensively and on the boards and had it going offensively but was frozen out by Spanoulis. These are facts.

Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was, and would have taken Spain out if it wasn't for Spanoulis desperately trying to assert himself despite not being nearly good enough to get them over the hump.


2013 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece. Giannis is Greece's 6th best player. Greece did not win a medal.

You claim it "was Spanoulius' fault Greece lost", even though he was not on the team.

2014 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece. Giannis is Greece's 7th best player. Greece did not win a medal.

You claim it "was Spanoulius' fault Greece lost", even though he was not on the team.

2015 - Spanoulis does play with Greece, and leads the team in scoring and assists. Despite that, you claim that "was Spanoulis' fault Greece lost". Giannis plays one of the worst games anyone could possibly play against Latvia (in the tournament's most important game - the game deciding who qualifies for last chance tournament). Spanoulis wins the games against Croatia, Italy, and Latvia almost by himself.....you claim "Spanoulis is the worst player in the history of Greek national team", and "because of him Giannis did not win the tournament, win MVP, lead the tournament in scoring", blag blah blah

2016 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece........I said before the tournament started that you make up the same fake and imaginary excuses for when Giannis played awful again, and for when Giannis once again choked and proved he can't play basketball under FIBA rules, because they don't allow you to travel and palm the ball every time you touch it like they do in the NBA (that's the only way he can play basketball)....

You went on and on in the Bucks forum about how "it is all Spanoulis' fault" and how without him on the team, Giannis will dominate every game, be the best player on the floor in every game, etc. You even claimed in the Bucks forum, that Giannis was so vastly superior to the other players at this tournament, that it was like he was "playing against 8 year olds".

Now let's look at what actually happened. Giannis played extremely bad in the first half against Mexico, with careless turnovers and he got rejected twice by like a 6-7 player, and it was epic level rejections....

Giannis then goes on to play even worse against Croatia than he did last summer against Latvia. Against Croatia, Giannis played probably the worst game any player of the Greek national team has played in my entire lifetime.

Milbuck - "It is all Spanoulis' fault"...

Like I said, I am glad that this time, instead of just posting this nonsense in the Bucks forum, you made the mistake of posting it in a general thread. That way non Bucks homers could see how ridiculous and absurd your claims are.

Oh, and don't bother responding to this thread with your usual made up BS, because you are going back on ignore now.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#85 » by Prez » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:17 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:I politely ask you to stop trolling and making things up about what I said. I watched Eurobasket and I'm sorry if it bothers you but Spanoulis legitimately was garbage against Spain and single handedly cost Greece with his awful defense and low IQ offense. Giannis was tearing it up defensively and on the boards and had it going offensively but was frozen out by Spanoulis. These are facts.

Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was, and would have taken Spain out if it wasn't for Spanoulis desperately trying to assert himself despite not being nearly good enough to get them over the hump.


2013 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece. Giannis is Greece's 6th best player. Greece did not win a medal.

You claim it "was Spanoulius' fault Greece lost", even though he was not on the team.

2014 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece. Giannis is Greece's 7th best player. Greece did not win a medal.

You claim it "was Spanoulius' fault Greece lost", even though he was not on the team.

2015 - Spanoulis does play with Greece, and leads the team in scoring and assists. Despite that, you claim that "was Spanoulis' fault Greece lost". Giannis plays one of the worst games anyone could possibly play against Latvia (in the tournament's most important game - the game deciding who qualifies for last chance tournament). Spanoulis wins the games against Croatia, Italy, and Latvia almost by himself.....you claim "Spanoulis is the worst player in the history of Greek national team", and "because of him Giannis did not win the tournament, win MVP, lead the tournament in scoring", blag blah blah

2016 - Spanoulis is not playing for Greece........I said before the tournament started that you make up the same fake and imaginary excuses for when Giannis played awful again, and for when Giannis once again choked and proved he can't play basketball under FIBA rules, because they don't allow you to travel and palm the ball every time you touch it like they do in the NBA (that's the only way he can play basketball)....

You went on and on in the Bucks forum about how "it is all Spanoulis' fault" and how without him on the team, Giannis will dominate every game, be the best player on the floor in every game, etc. You even claimed in the Bucks forum, that Giannis was so vastly superior to the other players at this tournament, that it was like he was "playing against 8 year olds".

Now let's look at what actually happened. Giannis played extremely bad in the first half against Mexico, with careless turnovers and he got rejected twice by like a 6-7 player, and it was epic level rejections....

Giannis then goes on to play even worse against Croatia than he did last summer against Latvia. Against Croatia, Giannis played probably the worst game any player of the Greek national team has played in my entire lifetime.

Milbuck - "It is all Spanoulis' fault"...

Like I said, I am glad that this time, instead of just posting this nonsense in the Bucks forum, you made the mistake of posting it in a general thread. That way non Bucks homers could see how ridiculous and absurd your claims are.

Oh, and don't bother responding to this thread with your usual made up BS, because you are going back on ignore now.

I politely ask you again to stop trolling and putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about Spanoulis in 2013 or anything else. All I said was Eurobasket 2015, Spanoulis' low IQ chucking and awful defense single handedly cost Greece against Spain, while Giannis was clearly the best player on court. Which is a fact.

I am sorry if it offends you but the simple reality is that Giannis is better than Spanoulis ever was. As a Greek basketball fan you should be excited about this, there is a new face of the country.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#86 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:26 pm

mojo13 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:Giannis with another dominant performance as usual, by far the best Greek player on the planet. If he can get Greece even within 20 points against Croatia with the lack of talent around him, he's cemented as the Greek GOAT imo.


Giannis looked pretty bad today in the loss to Croatia. He has no outside shot at this point in his career. (no one on Greece can shoot)

3/14 FGs for the game (21%). 0/7 from 3pt with 6 turnovers. Yikes.

That lack of shooting is going to be tough for the Bucks to overcome. And he will be nowhere near the greatest Greek player of all time until he develops a decent outside shot, at least in international ball. He will be a very good player in the NBA even without an outside shot as the game is more open and more reliant on athleticism over actual basketball skills. Can he become the GOAT Greek NBA player? Probably. But GOAT Greek player of international ball? Long ways to go to answer that.


The chances Giannis becomes the best Greek player ever are extremely small IMO. In all honesty, he's a much much worse player than someone like Papaloukas was, and Papaloukas was nowhere near as good as Greek players like Diamantidis, Galis, Spanoulis, and probably not even as good as someone like Giannakis was.

I know he's just 21, but I don't think that matters in that point. For example, even a Greek player like Antonis Fotsis was much better at age 21 than Giannis is, and Fotsis never amlunted to being more than a role player in Greece's national and in big Euroleague teams.

He's Greece's most successful NBA player for sure. But he's not the best Greek player ever, and it's extremely unlikely that can happen. In FIBA you can't travel and palm the ball every time like in the NBA, you can't get open lanes to run on fast breaks, as teams don't allow that like in NBA, where the league demands teams allow open breaks for viewers to see dunks...

and most importantly, in FIBA, if you are a perimeter player like Giannis, and you can't hit even a wide open jump shot against any decent level team (not even when they leave you so open that they dare you to shoot), well, you become the same problem as guys like his teammate Nick Calathes, and Ricky Rubio. You become an actual liability to your team on offense.

Look at Calathes, Rubio, and Giannis in the NBA, it's a big problem having guys that can't shoot like that, even in the NBA, but in FIBA that gets magnified by about 3 times, because there is the absolute necessity that you be able to score in half court sets. The Calathes -Antetokounmpo guard tandem is probably the ugliest guard duo on offense I have ever seen in any big European national team.

The fact that they are both such liabilites on offense in the half court, and that the coach of Greece insists on playing them together, is what causes Greece to lose the last 3 years now. I have no idea why Greece's coach insists on playing them together. When Greece had Zisis and Spanoulis as guards, they could at least hide and cover up some of the offensive problems of Calalthes and Giannis in half court. Now without Zisis and Spanoulis, the opposing teams just knows all they have to do is get Greece in half court, then funnel open jumpers to Calathes and Giannis and that they will automatically win.

Even Mexico playing without Ayon (with Ayon they are much worse than European teams like Croatia for example), had the lead over Greece at halftime from playing that way. Even a high school coach should be able to see you can't play those two in the same lineup.

A lot of people only watch NBA, then try to apply NBA to FIBA. It does not work like that. If you look at the Bucks forum, they are almost all convinced than Giannis will average 30 points a game with Greece in 2013, in 2014, in 2015, and in 2016. When he averaged like 8-10 a game, they are completely baffled, because he averaged 16 or whatever in NBA, and because "FIBA players are vastly inferior to NBA players".

This kind of reasoning is typical of people that only watch NBA and then start talking about what will happen in a given FIBA tournament.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#87 » by Prez » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:29 pm

It's hard for me to consider Giannis anything less than substantially better than Spanoulis given the fact that Giannis is a rising star in the best league in the world, where Spanoulis absolutely sucked and was so outmatched he was gone after 31 games. You consider then that Giannis is only 21 and already vastly better, projecting into his prime the gap will only widen.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#88 » by Mustinjo » Fri Jul 8, 2016 8:05 pm

LOL, Mirotic12 strikes again. Hyperboles are flying all over the place.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#89 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 8, 2016 8:37 pm

Milbuck wrote:It's hard for me to consider Giannis anything less than substantially better than Spanoulis given the fact that Giannis is a rising star in the best league in the world, where Spanoulis absolutely sucked and was so outmatched he was gone after 31 games. You consider then that Giannis is only 21 and already vastly better, projecting into his prime the gap will only widen.


Giannis is literally nowhere near as good as Antonis Fotsis was at age 21. Even at age 19, Fotsis was way better than Giannis is now. This age excuse is nonsense and you know it.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#90 » by Prez » Fri Jul 8, 2016 8:41 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Milbuck wrote:It's hard for me to consider Giannis anything less than substantially better than Spanoulis given the fact that Giannis is a rising star in the best league in the world, where Spanoulis absolutely sucked and was so outmatched he was gone after 31 games. You consider then that Giannis is only 21 and already vastly better, projecting into his prime the gap will only widen.


Giannis is literally nowhere near as good as Antonis Fotsis was at age 21. Even at age 19, Fotsis was way better than Giannis is now. This age excuse is nonsense and you know it.

Okay, let's ignore ages. Giannis this year averaged literally 6x the points, 11x the rebounds, and 5x the assists Spanoulis did in the NBA. In the best basketball league in the world, Giannis is a rising star and Spanoulis was a complete scrub.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#91 » by Sixerscan » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:35 pm

Looks like Dario whupped Giannis' butt today.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#92 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:56 pm

Sixerscan wrote:Looks like Dario whupped Giannis' butt today.


They play at two totally different positions. Saric plays at PF for Croatia, and Giannis plays at SG and SF for Greece.

Giannis was dealing with guys like Krunoslav Simon and Bojan Bogdanovic.

Saric, incidentally, was playing against two Greek players that play out of their natural position. He played against Ioannis Papapetrou (he played in NCAA at Texas) who is a natural SF that has been changed to a PF, even though he's definitely a SF, and Dimitris Agravanis (Hawks draft pick), that is naturally a small ball stretch 5. Greece used those two out of position at PF, because all of their best power forwards were injured and missed the tournament.

I only remember a couple times where Giannis and Saric ever matched on a switch during the game.
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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#93 » by Mr. E » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:24 pm

I just wanted to give this forum a notice that the seasonal RealGM Olympics Forum is back!

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Re: Olympic Qualifiers 2016 

Post#94 » by RSCD3_ » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:04 pm

Will this become the olympic threads in time
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