FIBA has suspended a lot of national teams from Eurobasket 2017

[JohnWillow]

FIBA has suspended these federations from EuroBasket 2017: Serbia, Croatia, Turkey, Russia, Espania, Lithuania, Greece, Italy, Israel, Montenegro, FYR of Macedonia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Poland, Finland and If i'm correct France? What you think about this FIBA vs ULEB kind a war? What will happen next year in EUROBASKET?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IAmDPick/status/721094208950530048[/tweet]

EDIT: France national team is not suspended.

[JohnWillow]

National teams who would be left, who played in Euro 2015 would be Germany, Georgia, Latvia, Belgium, Israel, Czech Republic, Iceland, Netherlands and France.

[lambchop]

Yea doesnt mean much, cause olympics are in 2020. But the fiba world cup is in 2019 right?

[Von Bismarck]

Lol FIBA just killed itself. They're done.

[Overpaid Scrub]

Fiba have been done for a couple of years already, they make little money and no one cares about them.

[Dr Music]

I read this but can't find any reason for the suspensions. Thats at least 8 of the top ten teams in Europe. Also word that the teams might be banned from the Olympics and can affect the qualifying round coming up. So anybody know what happened that so terrible?

[lambchop]

I read this but can't find any reason for the suspensions. Thats at least 8 of the top ten teams in Europe. Also word that the teams might be banned from the Olympics and can affect the qualifying round coming up. So anybody know what happened that so terrible?

http://www.eurohoops.net/featured/211911/a-club-in-eurocup-means-no-national-team-in-fiba-competitions

[Dr Music]

Still does not make sense. The Eurocup has been going on for many years. Now because one club participates you go and ban a country from National team competitions? FIBA is shooting itself in the foot if this goes down.

[Bizz]

Well for US fans that don't follow European scene much here is whats going on:

FIBA Europe wants to follow the football (soccer) and create a champions league amongst best European clubs.

But best clubs in Europe didn't like the direction of FIBA and their monopoly (keeping most of the sponsorship and TV money for themselfes) so in 2000 best clubs in Europe (CSKA, Barcelona, ...) created an Euroleague. A completley new organization/competition not connected to FIBA in any way.

Fast forward to 2016 and the new leadership of FIBA Europe decided to take back what they lost 16 years ago. But Euroleague that is much closer to NBA in this regard reaacted quickly and revamped the Euroleague to only 16 best teams in Europe almost a closed league simmilar to NBA. When FIBA relised that they can not have the best competition since 11 clubs (all major clubs in Europe) you can see in NBA 2k16 singed a 10 year agreement to play in Euroleague. So FIBA wanted a consolation prize a second tier competition, but since Euroleague also orgnizes Eurocup (currently second best competition in Europe) they went after teams competing in this competition hard. But because clubs also prefer Eurocup to FIBA Champions League, much of this has to do with the fact winner of Eurocup gets to play Euroleague next seson, FIBA Europe decided to sanction any National team whose clubs will play in Eurocup next seson. And since clubs from balkan area, Russian and Baltic area, Spanish clubs,... despite the threats decided for Eurolegue and Eurocup, FIBA Europe suspended their NT.

As result US might play Finland, Netherlands and Belgium in the Olympics since all the top teams are under suspension unless they cave to the threats by April 20th. This will destroy the competition in the Olympics and erradicate any European competitions since no sponsor, TV or fans will want to watch a tournament without those countries. Suspended countries might create their own European competition but since Olympic comitte only recognizes FIBA they can not play in Olympic games.

[Mirotic12]

I honestly don't care. Every single EuroBasket, World Cup, and Olympics in recent years has been an absolute joke. FIBA destroyed the Euroleague when they ran it, and they have pretty much done the same with those national team competitions now also.

I actually kind of hope FIBA goes all out on this ridiculous nonsense and collapses and is totally done away with once and for all.

It's an extremely, extremely corrupt organization (way worse than FIFA could ever dream of being), and it has slowly wrecked international basketball.

I am to the point where I think even the corrupt European national basketball federations and the flying circus marketing gimmick NBA could do a better job at handling these international tournaments than FIBA can.

And let's be honest here, FIBA has no legal standing to be doing any of this. FIBA is claiming that they have the right to ban national federations and their national team that are from countries that have private corporate national club leagues, whose teams also play in a corporate private league (Eurocup Basketball).

This is absolutely absurd, and would never hold up in a just court. As all of these clubs play in private national club leagues, that are privately owned and run and have nothing to do with FIBA (same model as the NBA), and because also, FIBA is not threatening the same action to.....

China federation (private club league in CBA).

Australia and New Zealand federations (private club league in NBL).

USA and Canada federations (private club league in NBA).

And the list goes on and on and on...

Can you imagine how insane the media, fans, public, USA Basketball, etc. would go if FIBA banned Team USA from the Olympics, simply because the NBA is a privately held league that does not want to be organized by FIBA? The level of outrage would be insane. But yet FIBA does that same thing to European federations, but on top of that ignores Euroleague, because it does not want to get on the bad side of the big and rich clubs in Europe either..

I mean, unless they buy off a crooked judge (which is very possible), FIBA is going to get annihilated in court.

Fiba have been done for a couple of years already, they make little money and no one cares about them.

FIBA is a total joke organization and a bunch of clowns. However, it's not true that they make little money. They made enormous net profits off the last 3 FIBA World Cups, and off of the last 6 FIBA EuroBaskets.

[Mirotic12]

Well for US fans that don't follow European scene much here is whats going on:

FIBA Europe wants to follow the football (soccer) and create a champions league amongst best European clubs.

But best clubs in Europe didn't like the direction of FIBA and their monopoly (keeping most of the sponsorship and TV money for themselfes) so in 2000 best clubs in Europe (CSKA, Barcelona, ...) created an Euroleague. A completley new organization/competition not connected to FIBA in any way.

Fast forward to 2016 and the new leadership of FIBA Europe decided to take back what they lost 16 years ago. But Euroleague that is much closer to NBA in this regard reaacted quickly and revamped the Euroleague to only 16 best teams in Europe almost a closed league simmilar to NBA. When FIBA relised that they can not have the best competition since 11 clubs (all major clubs in Europe) you can see in NBA 2k16 singed a 10 year agreement to play in Euroleague. So FIBA wanted a consolation prize a second tier competition, but since Euroleague also orgnizes Eurocup (currently second best competition in Europe) they went after teams competing in this competition hard. But because clubs also prefer Eurocup to FIBA Champions League, much of this has to do with the fact winner of Eurocup gets to play Euroleague next seson, FIBA Europe decided to sanction any National team whose clubs will play in Eurocup next seson. And since clubs from balkan area, Russian and Baltic area, Spanish clubs,... despite the threats decided for Eurolegue and Eurocup, FIBA Europe suspended their NT.

As result US might play Finland, Netherlands and Belgium in the Olympics since all the top teams are under suspension unless they cave to the threats by April 20th. This will destroy the competition in the Olympics and erradicate any European competitions since no sponsor, TV or fans will want to watch a tournament without those countries. Suspended countries might create their own European competition but since Olympic comitte only recognizes FIBA they can not play in Olympic games.

This is true, except that FIBA Europe no longer exists. All of the regional sections of FIBA were disbanded in 2015, and everything was changed to be directly under the centralized power of the entity called "FIBA World", or "FIBA Global", or "FIBA International".

I think that is one of the things that is driving this mess. The old FIBA Europe contingent is very angry and mad that they got usurped and lost their power. So they are trying to force clubs from their countries to play in FIBA's new joke 3rd tier level league, that is called "Champions League", but has no real champions in it.

It's a way for the old power of FIBA Europe (strong men) of federations like Turkey, Greece, Russia, France, Italy, Croatia, and Serbia, that used to dominate European basketball power structure, to get back their lost power. Which after FIBA eliminated the regional zones, and of course losing Euroleague back in the day, their powers are practically nill, other than within their own countries.

And the thing is that as for the 8 biggest national federations organizing their own tournament - I actually think that is what the NBA is pushing for. I feel that for many years now the NBA owners have been behind this whole thing, with wanting the Olympics turned into an under-23 tournament, the FIBA World Cup made as the replace for the Olympics in USA media and marketing, and then only USA and a select few countries that they deem "worthy" getting to play in this tournament.

Then with all of the money from that tournament going to the NBA, the players, and the national federations, and FIBA and the Olympics getting zero dollars out of it.

I really think that behind the scenes, the NBA has been making this happen for many years now, and that statements made by Stern and Cuban over the years basically said they were going to do it. Most people thought they were joking, but it looks like their handiwork is all over this. It makes total sense of course from the perspective of NBA owners. As it is now, they don't get the money from the Olympics and FIBA World Cup. But if they can get their own tournament, then they get all that money.

[Bizz]

Well FIBA has gone true some restructering and everything, but FIBA Europe still exist as an organization as is clear since the letter sent today states

Supporting or participating in such anticompetitive arragments is contrary to competition law and principles of FIBA, FIBA Europe and its National Member Federations.

With also FIBA Europe template. But yes they couldn't do this if FIBA wasn't behind them as these days there is barley any difference between them.

[Mirotic12]

Well FIBA has gone true some restructering and everything, but FIBA Europe still exist as an organization as is clear since the letter sent today states

Supporting or participating in such anticompetitive arragments is contrary to competition law and principles of FIBA, FIBA Europe and its National Member Federations.

With also FIBA Europe template. But yes they couldn't do this if FIBA wasn't behind them as these days there is barley any difference between them.

FIBA Europe is now the same thing as NBA Africa. It is just an office located in the regional zone. It's not an actual separate entity or division anymore.

Last year FIBA eliminated all of the regional zones, and just put offices in each region. In the past, you could even make the argument FIBA Europe was more powerful than FIBA. Now, it's just a regional office of FIBA World.

Anyway, this thing is getting really nasty now. After the Greek League playoffs game between PAOK and AEK Athens, AEK Athens players, coaches, and executives accused the refs of rigging the game, and they said it is because the Greek basketball federation wanted to send a message to them that they are being punished for choosing to play in the Eurocup and not FIBA Champions League.

For some perspective on that, the Greek federation controls all the refs in Greece, including the ones in the Greek League, and the Greek federation ordered all Greek clubs to play in Champions League, or they would suffer punishment from the federation.

In addition to that, PAOK was also offered a 4 year contract by Euroleague to play in Eurocup, but they turned it down, and chose to play instead in Champions League. While AEK did the opposite and accepted the 4 year contract offer from Euroleague to play in Eurocup, and then they spurned FIBA's offer to play in Champions League.

Finally, AEK's management said after the game that AEK was sent a letter from the Greek federation that stated that in choosing to play in Eurocup instead of Champions League, that the Greek federation would ban them from being able to play in the Greek national league as a punishment.

Again, this is absurd, as AEK is a private club, and as the Greek League is a private league, not controlled by FIBA. But the head of the Greek federation, used to also be the head of FIBA Europe, and he's considered to be one of the most powerful people in FIBA circles.

So we see here some really, really ugly stuff coming from FIBA, showing what kind of an organization they are. Usually, this kind of stuff was done in Greek basketball behind the scenes in the Panathinaikos and Olympiacos rivalry (the Greek federation President used to play for Panathinaikos and also used to be their President), but now they are taking it to a whole different level, where it's not just going to be Olympiacos supporters that are outraged.

I don't see how these kind of bully tactics are going to be tolerated by the clubs and national leagues, without some kind of severe lawsuit being filed against FIBA.

[franckyvinvin12]

Mirotic, of course it can hold down in court. FIBA runs the Eurobasket, they invite whichever federation they want.

[janmagn]

Since what has Finland been suspended?
E: The Wikipedia list, don't see Finland there

Lähetetty minun LG-H440n laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic, of course it can hold down in court. FIBA runs the Eurobasket, they invite whichever federation they want.

I am pretty sure that what FIBA is doing is considered blackmail and that it violates European Union fair competition laws. FIBA should have no legal right whatsoever to tell AEK Athens, a private club, that plays in a private league (Greek League), same exact model as an NBA team and the NBA, that if it does not play in a FIBA organized league, that it will be banned from the Greek League.

Also, FIBA should have no legal right to then after AEK called their bluff, to tell the Greek basketball federation that the Greek national team will be banned from all further national team competitions because a privately owned club (AEK Athens), that plays in a privately owned and run league (Greek League - run by HEBA) decided not to play in a FIBA run club league.

After the Greek federation threatened AEK with being banned from the Greek League, AEK again called their bluff, that they have no legal right to do so, because they are a privately owned team, and because the Greek League is a private corporate run league that has absolutely nothing at all to do with FIBA in any way (the same exact as the NBA).

After this happened, the Greek federation, knowing it has no legal authority to ban clubs from the Greek League, responded by asking the national director of sports in the country of Greece to pass a legal ruling that would make a new law and precedent that the Greek federation actually has the power to ban clubs from the Greek League (because they actually have no legal power to do so).

The Greek federation said this was done because FIBA told them if they did not get AEK to leave the Eurocup and move to the Champions League, that Greece would be banned from national team competitions going forward.

This sure seems like it would fall under the definition of blackmail.

This would be the exact same thing as if FIBA announced that Team USA was indefinitely banned from international competitions (including the Olympics), until the NBA relinquished its control over to FIBA, and until the owners of NBA clubs signed agreements that FIBA would from then on decide what league their teams could play in (not the NBA, but instead only a league owned by FIBA).

Do you think that would ever hold up in court? Of course it would not. And why did FIBA ignore the NBA, and even the Euroleague, and choose only to attack Eurocup and national leagues, and choose to ignore NBA teams and Euroleague teams? Because those teams and leagues have more money than FIBA.

It's not legal for FIBA to break apart the NBA and to ban Team USA from national team competitions, unless the NBA teams would all agree to play in a league owned by FIBA, and the NBA owners would agree to share their profits with FIBA. And just like that is not legal, it's not legal to do it to any other privately owned clubs from privately owned and run leagues, nor to any other national basketball federation.

[lambchop]

lol fiba is a joke. Those federations will never give in to fiba. I hope they start their own national comp every couple of years.

[Mirotic12]

lol fiba is a joke. Those federations will never give in to fiba. I hope they start their own national comp every couple of years.

Well, some of the European national federations are controlled by FIBA associates. So they are in agreement with this. But in the case of the national club leagues, the only one in Europe that is of any importance that is run by a national federation is the Turkish League. Also, Turkey is not an EU member, so they are not bound by EU laws. However, there is a lot of talk about them joining the EU soon.

All the other major national and regional club leagues are run by separate private corporations that have their own boards and governorship. Just like the NBA.

Back in the early 90s, the European national leagues started to turn professional. The model where FIBA runs the league, means that the league is an amateur status league and legally is even classed as such (think of how FIBA competitions were before 1992 Olympics). But the model where the league is run by a private corporation is professional, and under legal status, those leagues have to operate under the laws of their country and the EU (if they are a member state) as a professional sports entity.

So these national leagues like Spanish League, Italian League, Greek League, French League, German League...I can see absolutely no way at all that FIBA would have any legal authority or power to tell them what to do, or to punish them, or their teams. I don't even see how the private run international regional leagues like ABA League ("Adriatic League"), or VTB United League (Russia's pro clubs run league) would be bound by anything to FIBA.

This same kind of stuff that FIBA is doing now, is why most of the big clubs from those leagues broke away from FIBA EuroLeague back in 2000, and formed a new league. Because FIBA acts this way and does stuff like this, always thinking they should control everything.

Since those leagues and clubs broke away from FIBA and re-organized the Euroleague themselves before, then I am sure that national federations that wanted to do so can do the same. The problem is though, that you have people running some of those national federations that are powerful FIBA associates and actually want their federation to do what FIBA is doing. If FIBA did not have employees running some of those federations, I am sure they would never have dared to even attempt this.

[Mirotic12]

So apparently, Greek, Italian, Lithuanian, and Israeli teams that chose to play in Eurocup, rather than in FIBA Champions League, were banned out of their national club leagues by the federations of the country they play in. And this was supposedly done because FIBA told those national federations that their national teams would be banned from the Olympics and EuroBasket if they did not do so...

This is the most ridiculous and absurd nonsense in professional level sports history. And the most comical thing about it is that almost all the fans of the poor and small basketball clubs in Europe (teams that have refused for many years to spend any money on their teams, and literally relied on only sponsors, and the public for their budgets) are totally in favor of what FIBA is doing. And they are in favor of it just beacuse they want to punish the rich teams that spend money and so their teams can't beat those teams.

So they want Euroleague and Eurocup shut down, and they want those teams banned also from national leagues (so their small clubs with cheap owners) can win national championships.

And clearly, these kinds of "fans" have the agenda to have the big European clubs bankrupted and closed down, so then their small clubs could play in this new "Euroleague" run by FIBA. Where no team probably would have a budget of more than 5 million euros.

I've never seen so many supposed fans of a sport that actually want to close down the sport and destroy it, as is the case with European basketball fans. And these types of fans even claim they have the only motive of supporting FIBA in that they want to "save the sport".

Unbelievable how much hate and vitriol these fans of these small clubs have against the sport of basketball in Europe, just because they support teams that no longer care to invest money and no longer try to be competitive. This logic that they can't beat the good teams, so they must then destroy the big league and the big teams and shut them down, "for the good of the sport", or my personal favorite, "for the sporting merit" is just absurd.

Sporting merit means you try to win on the basketball court, NOT in the boardroom or in the courtroom. But winning in the boardroom / courtroom, because you are incapable of winning on the basketball court is what FIBA and fans of small clubs in Europe, or even big clubs (by history, tradition, and fans) with cheap owners in Europe claim is "sporting merit".

I hope FIBA dies a quick death at this point. It's a cancer for the sport of basketball, and so are the cheap owners and jealous fan bases of the clubs in Europe that support it.

[GoSu]

So apparently, Greek, Italian, Lithuanian, and Israeli teams that chose to play in Eurocup, rather than in FIBA Champions League, were banned out of their national club leagues by the federations of the country they play in. And this was supposedly done because FIBA told those national federations that their national teams would be banned from the Olympics and EuroBasket if they did not do so...

Add Spain, Russia and Bosnia federations to that list too. They were the first to "give up" on their local clubs and promissed FIBA they will ban these clubs from local leagues if they choose to play in Eurobasket.

At this moment Slovenia's basketball federation is the only one who "stood up" to FIBA.. So much for our hopes that all our federations come together against this bull..

European Comission already involved in this "dispute" between Euroleague and FIBA, presumably some substantial fines coming for FIBA in the near future.