Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro

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jptremblay
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#21 » by jptremblay » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:56 pm

a-French-Fan wrote:
TKainZero wrote:
sisibilio wrote:Just for the record, Ibaka went to Spain when he was 17-18 not 15.


Consideringibaka is playing like a 32 year old man, who knows


Actually he went first to France (his father lives in France), spent 3 months in France and then went to Spain (with really strange circumstances). More money in spanish basket-ball ^^ Then I find it normal that after becoming a pro in Spain he chose to play for Spain.

Spain (and more surprisingly ... Serbia) tried to recruit Doumbouya last year because in France there is no exception for athletes, and his naturalization took time.

For me for Ibaka case, the matter is if he was not a great basketball player, ccould he be naturalized? That, Russia, Georgia, Macedonia give a passport to a guy for playing, I don't care, but Spain a UE country, I am quite disappointed.
Anyone knows how many years an immigrant as to stay in Spain for applying for nationality?

Yes, the Ibaka case was something weird, he was naturalized by decree...because here we have a rule that allows to naturalize a foreigner in exceptional circumstances (which ones are very unclear). So he did not comply all the requirements to become naturalized in the same way as any other person not famous. But well, it isn't the same as the Slaughter, McCalleb cases...beacuse does guys didn't know a **** about those countries before being naturalized by them...while Ibaka, spent here 3 years and learned our language and culture, and frequently visits Spain in summer.
Mirotic in the other hand, meet all the requirements to become a spaniard citizen, just as any other immigrant who isn't famous.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#22 » by a-French-Fan » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:27 pm

jptremblay wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
TKainZero wrote:
Consideringibaka is playing like a 32 year old man, who knows


Actually he went first to France (his father lives in France), spent 3 months in France and then went to Spain (with really strange circumstances). More money in spanish basket-ball ^^ Then I find it normal that after becoming a pro in Spain he chose to play for Spain.

Spain (and more surprisingly ... Serbia) tried to recruit Doumbouya last year because in France there is no exception for athletes, and his naturalization took time.

For me for Ibaka case, the matter is if he was not a great basketball player, ccould he be naturalized? That, Russia, Georgia, Macedonia give a passport to a guy for playing, I don't care, but Spain a UE country, I am quite disappointed.
Anyone knows how many years an immigrant as to stay in Spain for applying for nationality?

Yes, the Ibaka case was something weird, he was naturalized by decree...because here we have a rule that allows to naturalize a foreigner in exceptional circumstances (which ones are very unclear). So he did not comply all the requirements to become naturalized in the same way as any other person not famous. But well, it isn't the same as the Slaughter, McCalleb cases...beacuse does guys didn't know a **** about those countries before being naturalized by them...while Ibaka, spent here 3 years and learned our language and culture, and frequently visits Spain in summer.
Mirotic in the other hand, meet all the requirements to become a spaniard citizen, just as any other immigrant who isn't famous.


I've just seen on wikipedia that you need ten years to becoming spanish citizen. So it certainly was a royal decree for Mirotic too? The fact it is that great institutions like Real Madrid went and took a talent in Montenegro. Spanish federation disappoints me for this. FIFA punished football clubs for this.
Spain is a great basket-ball country and needn't any naturalized player to win medals.
And of course, I agree with you, Mirotic and Ibaka are not same cases as Slaughter, Pullen, McCalebb etc...
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#23 » by jptremblay » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:46 pm

a-French-Fan wrote:
jptremblay wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
Actually he went first to France (his father lives in France), spent 3 months in France and then went to Spain (with really strange circumstances). More money in spanish basket-ball ^^ Then I find it normal that after becoming a pro in Spain he chose to play for Spain.

Spain (and more surprisingly ... Serbia) tried to recruit Doumbouya last year because in France there is no exception for athletes, and his naturalization took time.

For me for Ibaka case, the matter is if he was not a great basketball player, ccould he be naturalized? That, Russia, Georgia, Macedonia give a passport to a guy for playing, I don't care, but Spain a UE country, I am quite disappointed.
Anyone knows how many years an immigrant as to stay in Spain for applying for nationality?

Yes, the Ibaka case was something weird, he was naturalized by decree...because here we have a rule that allows to naturalize a foreigner in exceptional circumstances (which ones are very unclear). So he did not comply all the requirements to become naturalized in the same way as any other person not famous. But well, it isn't the same as the Slaughter, McCalleb cases...beacuse does guys didn't know a **** about those countries before being naturalized by them...while Ibaka, spent here 3 years and learned our language and culture, and frequently visits Spain in summer.
Mirotic in the other hand, meet all the requirements to become a spaniard citizen, just as any other immigrant who isn't famous.


I've just seen on wikipedia that you need ten years to becoming spanish citizen. So it certainly was a royal decree for Mirotic too? The fact it is that great institutions like Real Madrid went and took a talent in Montenegro. Spanish federation disappoints me for this. FIFA punished football clubs for this.
Spain is a great basket-ball country and needn't any naturalized player to win medals.
And of course, I agree with you, Mirotic and Ibaka are not same cases as Slaughter, Pullen, McCalebb etc...

Just reviewed the Mirotic process and I wasn't right, he was naturalized with the same exception decree like Ibaka. I don't understand this because Mirotic came over here at 14 and left Spain at 23...so he could have been naturalized just like any other foreigner citizen.
And yes, you need 10 years to become a spanish citizen, but this rule doesn't apply always, for example in most cases it takes 2-3 years to acquire it, and in others just 5...so I consider Mirotic as a spanish citizen by himself.
But our goverment is always in bad timing, if we just waited some years for Mirotic...he could have play alongside Ibaka.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#24 » by Pachinko_ » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:56 pm

jptremblay wrote:Marc Gasol/Willy Hernangomez
Mirotic/Hernangomez
Abrines (OKC)/Claver
Rudy Fernández/Pau Ribas
Sergio Rodriguez/Ricky/Llull

That's a pretty deep team. Still a couple of steps behind the US but a favorite for a medal in any tournament.

The Hernangomez brothers are developing nicely, and Ricky is hitting his peak.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#25 » by sisibilio » Sat Jul 1, 2017 6:06 pm

jptremblay wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:I've just seen on wikipedia that you need ten years to becoming spanish citizen. So it certainly was a royal decree for Mirotic too? The fact it is that great institutions like Real Madrid went and took a talent in Montenegro. Spanish federation disappoints me for this. FIFA punished football clubs for this.
Spain is a great basket-ball country and needn't any naturalized player to win medals.
And of course, I agree with you, Mirotic and Ibaka are not same cases as Slaughter, Pullen, McCalebb etc...

Just reviewed the Mirotic process and I wasn't right, he was naturalized with the same exception decree like Ibaka. I don't understand this because Mirotic came over here at 14 and left Spain at 23...so he could have been naturalized just like any other foreigner citizen.
And yes, you need 10 years to become a spanish citizen, but this rule doesn't apply always, for example in most cases it takes 2-3 years to acquire it, and in others just 5...so I consider Mirotic as a spanish citizen by himself.
But our goverment is always in bad timing, if we just waited some years for Mirotic...he could have play alongside Ibaka.

Nope. It is irrelevant the process the player uses to get the nationality, if he has already turned 15 he's considered naturalized by FIBA.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#26 » by cojayar » Wed Jul 5, 2017 9:26 pm

jptremblay wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
jptremblay wrote:Yes, the Ibaka case was something weird, he was naturalized by decree...because here we have a rule that allows to naturalize a foreigner in exceptional circumstances (which ones are very unclear). So he did not comply all the requirements to become naturalized in the same way as any other person not famous. But well, it isn't the same as the Slaughter, McCalleb cases...beacuse does guys didn't know a **** about those countries before being naturalized by them...while Ibaka, spent here 3 years and learned our language and culture, and frequently visits Spain in summer.
Mirotic in the other hand, meet all the requirements to become a spaniard citizen, just as any other immigrant who isn't famous.


I've just seen on wikipedia that you need ten years to becoming spanish citizen. So it certainly was a royal decree for Mirotic too? The fact it is that great institutions like Real Madrid went and took a talent in Montenegro. Spanish federation disappoints me for this. FIFA punished football clubs for this.
Spain is a great basket-ball country and needn't any naturalized player to win medals.
And of course, I agree with you, Mirotic and Ibaka are not same cases as Slaughter, Pullen, McCalebb etc...

Just reviewed the Mirotic process and I wasn't right, he was naturalized with the same exception decree like Ibaka. I don't understand this because Mirotic came over here at 14 and left Spain at 23...so he could have been naturalized just like any other foreigner citizen.
And yes, you need 10 years to become a spanish citizen, but this rule doesn't apply always, for example in most cases it takes 2-3 years to acquire it, and in others just 5...so I consider Mirotic as a spanish citizen by himself.
But our goverment is always in bad timing, if we just waited some years for Mirotic...he could have play alongside Ibaka.


It is not fully true what you say about the 10 years. It depends form which country you are from. There are some cases or nationalities that require less time.
- General rule: 10 years
- Refugees: 5 years
- Iberoamericans, Philipines, Eq. Guinea, ..: 2 years
- Born in Spanish territory: 1 year
- Married with Spanish: 1 year
- Spanish grandfathers: 1 year
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#27 » by jinxed » Sun Aug 6, 2017 3:17 pm

cojayar wrote:
jptremblay wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
I've just seen on wikipedia that you need ten years to becoming spanish citizen. So it certainly was a royal decree for Mirotic too? The fact it is that great institutions like Real Madrid went and took a talent in Montenegro. Spanish federation disappoints me for this. FIFA punished football clubs for this.
Spain is a great basket-ball country and needn't any naturalized player to win medals.
And of course, I agree with you, Mirotic and Ibaka are not same cases as Slaughter, Pullen, McCalebb etc...

Just reviewed the Mirotic process and I wasn't right, he was naturalized with the same exception decree like Ibaka. I don't understand this because Mirotic came over here at 14 and left Spain at 23...so he could have been naturalized just like any other foreigner citizen.
And yes, you need 10 years to become a spanish citizen, but this rule doesn't apply always, for example in most cases it takes 2-3 years to acquire it, and in others just 5...so I consider Mirotic as a spanish citizen by himself.
But our goverment is always in bad timing, if we just waited some years for Mirotic...he could have play alongside Ibaka.


It is not fully true what you say about the 10 years. It depends form which country you are from. There are some cases or nationalities that require less time.
- General rule: 10 years
- Refugees: 5 years
- Iberoamericans, Philipines, Eq. Guinea, ..: 2 years
- Born in Spanish territory: 1 year
- Married with Spanish: 1 year
- Spanish grandfathers: 1 year


What is an iberoamerican?
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#28 » by sisibilio » Tue Aug 8, 2017 10:07 am

American countries with spanish or portuguese as official languages.
So Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican rep and all of central and south America except for Belize, Surinam and Guyana.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#29 » by Genjuro » Tue Aug 8, 2017 12:20 pm

As far as I've been told, Ibaka and his agents had reached an agreement with the Spanish Federation to play with the NT for a (limited) number of years, and that would've been already fulfilled. So it's possible that he never plays again with Spain.

As for how competitive Spain will be in the future, I guess the NT will fight for the medals, but it won't be dominant. Back to the pre-Gasol days, although hopefully in a better shape.
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#30 » by Popovich » Wed Aug 9, 2017 3:12 am

Of course it will
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Re: Spain is still going to be elite after Pau, Navarro 

Post#31 » by THE J0KER » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:45 am

Spain seems to me now in the deep problem because of lack of the big talents for about ten years period! If we look at (non-veterans) under-31 players, best is injury risky playmakers, Rubio and Llull, out of "international" Spaniards it seems that Ibaka will not play anymore and Mirotic is not that good as it seemed once (plus Doncic decide to play for Slovenia). I like the improvement of young Hernangomez brothers which development, together with Marc Gasol ability to play on the high level next three years (he will be 35yo in Tokyo) is crucial for Spain team until 2020 period. After Tokyo Olympics, if no new extraordinary prospects, Spain will lose their international superpower status which they have most of the time in this new century, and will turn more into level of "very good" teams but not filled with too many stars, like for example Lithuania today, or Serbia around period between Beijing08 and London12.

But at least upcoming fall will not be something dramatic like it happens to Croatia in 2nd half of 90s or to Argentina today, where no any decent replacements for one fantastic generation.

On the other hand, bad news is that Serbia is going to be basketball dominant force once again, France will better handle exit of Parker-Diaw generation than Spain P.Gasol-Navarro, Greece have time to build great team around true superstar, Canada, Australia and Croatia with so many talented young players must have bright future, Lithuania which bench is stacked with good players can rise overnight again into real force with just one another star/leader of at least Valanciunas level...

Spain is once again #1 favorite to win EuroBasket this year, and probably one of the TOP3 favorites in 2019 and 2020 at World Championships and Olympics, probably last big tournaments where younger Gasol will play. But after Tokyo, if some positive miracle does not happen, Spain NT will be far away from quality they have in the first and second decade of this century.

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