FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process

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mojo13
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FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#1 » by mojo13 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:42 pm

I was curious if anyone knew the plans of USA Basketball for the 2019 WC Qualification process. I have not heard a peep out of USA Basketball and I am sure 99% of fans don't realize a) the WC qualification process has changed and b) the USA actually needs to participate in the qualification process (as opposed to historically directly qualifying by winning the Olympics) c) the USA (or anyone really) will not have access to NBA players for at least 4 of the 6 home and home windows.

Is there some sort of plan to put a d-league type team together this summer to train?

The 2017 FIBA AmeriCup is in Aug/Sept 2017 and the USA is supposedly participating per FIBA (which is unusual). It is a seemingly meaningless tournament other than prepping for the Nov 2017 WC Qualification window.

For thse that don't understand the qualification process:

Image

http://www.fiba.com/calendar2017/FBWC2019AmericasQualifiersENG.pdf
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#2 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:39 pm

As far as I know, FIBA will schedule Team USA games only when NBA season isn't active. So no problem for USA, unless that changes. I'm not sure what other teams will do with their NBA players, but probably simply not have them.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#3 » by mojo13 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:18 pm

I am not believing that until you can point to something official somewhere.
That seems like such an absurd thought that the USA would have some sort of special rights to only play games during the non-NBA season windows.
Any other country that is somewhat reliant on NBA players would be up in arms.

Maybe all countries will have that opportunity, but then why have mid season home and home windows rather than just play in the summer?

Not that FIBA has the most noble reputation. I could imagine FIBA saying - "Pay us $2M and you can play just the summer windows".
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#4 » by Mirotic12 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:42 pm

mojo13 wrote:I am not believing that until you can point to something official somewhere.
That seems like such an absurd thought that the USA would have some sort of special rights to only play games during the non-NBA season windows.
Any other country that is somewhat reliant on NBA players would be up in arms.

Maybe all countries will have that opportunity, but then why have mid season home and home windows rather than just play in the summer?

Not that FIBA has the most noble reputation. I could imagine FIBA saying - "Pay us $2M and you can play just the summer windows".


One of the top heads of FIBA (I think like a the 2nd guy in charge) was saying it in some interview I saw. They were asking about NBA players and that issue, and he said USA games can be scheduled all during NBA off times so it will be no problem.

Obviously, they can't schedule every team on NBA off time...so it must be a reference solely to USA, or maybe it is to USA/Canada. But no way can they schedule every team with NBA payers during NBA off times. Or maybe he just meant in general, and not as an actual rule. No other team can lodge a complaint, when they don't make it a rule, and just schedule "by random chance" USA that way every time. They already did it for years, giving USA best schedule and best bracket in every tournament on purpose, and always claiming it was "by random chance", even though everyone knows it wasn't.

As far as playing just in summer, the European teams demanded that end. They will no longer agree to playing just in summer, because it is killing their players and that's why in recent years some of the European teams miss 5-10 of their best players each tournament. The NBA season is shorter than the season in big European clubs. So it started to become an issue where the guys in European national and club teams, simply don't want to play in any national team games anymore - or if they do, they retire 5-10 years earlier than they used to.

It became such a problem in recent years, that EuroBasket, World Cup, and Olympics level started to noticeably drop by quite a lot. Under the summer only schedule, if a player was playing in a good European club team, plus his European national team, he was playing 11 out of the 12 months of the year, every single year, and in some cases, for years on end. In recent years, many of the biggest European players simply quit playing for their national teams, and said the schedule was impossible. So the European federations demanded this change to FIBA World's schedule. I don't think it's possible to ever go back to the summer only schedule. Not since European club basketball became so strenuous, with a 10 month long requirement for players under contract.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#5 » by mojo13 » Tue May 2, 2017 8:02 pm

Looks like no NBA players for the qualification. D-Leaguers and Euro-based players will get the call.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245822/FIBA-Changes-Will-Force-USA-Basketball-To-Use-Non-NBA-Players-In-Qualification
This one is more indepth
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/usa-basketball-nba-players-qualifying-fiba/story?id=47156599


A team of D-leaguers that is consistent, familiar with FIBA rules and well coached should easily qualify.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#6 » by Mirotic12 » Tue May 2, 2017 8:43 pm

mojo13 wrote:Looks like no NBA players for the qualification. D-Leaguers and Euro-based players will get the call.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245822/FIBA-Changes-Will-Force-USA-Basketball-To-Use-Non-NBA-Players-In-Qualification
This one is more indepth
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/usa-basketball-nba-players-qualifying-fiba/story?id=47156599


A team of D-leaguers that is consistent, familiar with FIBA rules and well coached should easily qualify.


EuroLeague never agreed to let players play. So players in Europe, that don't play in EuroLeague or EuroCup.

A team of D-League players won't easily qualify. Team USA and Canada had better than D-League players and struggled at the Pan American Games..which is way lower, WAY lower level than these competitions will be. They can't just send a bunch of D-League players and easily qualify, not even through Americas region.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#7 » by mojo13 » Tue May 2, 2017 9:51 pm

A team of D-leaguers that is familiar with each other can easily finish in the top 7 of the Americas against others countries who also will have no NBA players, no EuroLeague players and no EuroCup players (the no EL and EC players has not been confirmed yet - if it has please post).

The Pan-Am games should be right about where the level of these games will be.

Plus the D-League is going to have better players this coming year with the additional of 60 new two-way NBA contracts and a tripling of the rest of the salaries.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#8 » by Mirotic12 » Tue May 2, 2017 11:01 pm

mojo13 wrote:A team of D-leaguers that is familiar with each other can easily finish in the top 7 of the Americas against others countries who also will have no NBA players, no EuroLeague players and no EuroCup players (the no EL and EC players has not been confirmed yet - if it has please post).

The Pan-Am games should be right about where the level of these games will be.

Plus the D-League is going to have better players this coming year with the additional of 60 new two-way NBA contracts and a tripling of the rest of the salaries.


The Pan Am Games was mostly the B teams of most of those national teams. If you take away NBA players, EuroLeague and EuroCup players from an A team, that is still quite a bit better than B teams, which is pretty much what was at the pan American Games.

EuroLeague and EuroCup players won't be there if NBA players aren't. The last time I read an interview with EuroLeague's CEO, he was asked about it, and he said (paraphrasing) "if the NBA players won't be there, then why should we let our players play?" Then he said something like, "if the clubs allow them to play, we won't get in the way".

Well, the chances are very small the clubs will let any important players play during the middle of the season. Only probably the guys that don't play in a rotation. Canada and USA couldn't expect any players to play under those circumstances, where the club has control over it.

Triple salaries isn't going to mean all that much in level of D-League. Rookies to the pros, from NCAA DI come to Greek League teams, and sign with low level teams (the poorest ones in the league) and start off at like $230,000 a year in how NBA counts salary...I am talking about guys from mid major NCAA schools with zero NBA and zero D-League playing time, that are true rookies, never played in Europe, and that are signing in the poorest teams. That's still like 5 times what D-League would pay.

And the teams from Latin America are not boxed into NBA, EuroLeague and EuroCup players at all. They have plenty of good players playing in leagues like Puerto Rico, Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Mexico, plus Americas League. Venezuela won an Americas Championship tournament, with their opponents having NBA and EuroLeague/EuroCup players.......and with themselves having a team consisting of FIBA Americas League players.

So no, I seriously don't think it's remotely close to being easy for a D-League team to qualify. 7 places is a lot of leeway......but to say they easily qualify is a stretch. You have to understand, I watch Americas League, and it's far better than D-League. So just players from the best Latin American leagues can give any D-League team plenty of problems.

At a very bare minimum, USA should select some real pro players from Europe and China, and Australia, mixed in with some D-League and/or college players, or something like that. 12 D-League players would be a very foolish experiment.

A few years back the D-League all star select team toured Europe, playing teams in Spain, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, then China....they played only second division teams from Spain, Greece, and Italy, and lost all 6 of those games. They played against 2 of the worst Lithuanian first division teams, and went 1-1. They played 2 games against first division Chinese teams, and went 1-1, for a 2-8 record (0-6 against 2nd division Italy, Greece, Spain)...granted, it's a bit different, since those were clubs teams, but you get the point.

So, I don't see anything being easy in making top 7 in Americas region, if they actually send 12 D-League players.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#9 » by perempe20 » Wed May 3, 2017 8:52 am

play the same team that qualified!
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#10 » by Rastas » Wed May 3, 2017 3:04 pm

Damn - no Bogut, Baynes, Maker, Simmons, Ingles, Exum, Delly and Mills as well as likely new NBA recruits Bolden , Humphries and Adel along with any Euro League/Cup playing aussies sure will put a hole in Australias qualification team .
Don't think too much about FIBA's new scheduling !
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#11 » by Mirotic12 » Thu May 4, 2017 9:14 pm

Rastas wrote:Damn - no Bogut, Baynes, Maker, Simmons, Ingles, Exum, Delly and Mills as well as likely new NBA recruits Bolden , Humphries and Adel along with any Euro League/Cup playing aussies sure will put a hole in Australias qualification team .
Don't think too much about FIBA's new scheduling !


Brad Newley
Jason Cadee
Nathan Sobey
Ryan Broekhoff

Right away just some names like that came to mind of Australian players playing in Europe (some on loan from NBL) that don't play EuroLeague or EuroCup. Between those kinds of guys and some of the other top players in NBL, I think they are perfectly fine, being in the joke Asian region.

They still probably have the easiest way to qualify, just like before.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#12 » by Dtown84 » Sun May 7, 2017 4:00 pm

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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#13 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jul 6, 2017 4:15 pm

EuroLeague scheduled games during the qualifications. So players can only play if their team releases them, which is very unlikely, unless they are not a rotation player.

EuroCup (league level below EuroLeague) will not have any games scheduled, so the players can play, if their teams let them, which would be much more probable in that case.

FIBA Basketball Champions League (BCL) (3rd tier European league) left the qualification times open, and players from their are free to play.


http://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/476549/euroleague-eurocup-clubs-calendar-approved/

EuroLeague and EuroCup clubs and calendar approved
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#14 » by a-French-Fan » Fri Jul 7, 2017 2:17 pm

No NBA players, and now no Euroleague players ... Anybody could find an interest for such a competition?

Understand me, I really love my national team whatever the roster, and as a french fan I could imagine few games without NBA players because we have some good players out of NBA (De Colo, Heurtel, Diot, Westermann, Causeur, Tillie, Beaubois), but without euroleague (and maybe eurocup) players, we will see qualification rounds without any player with international level ...
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#15 » by Rastas » Fri Jul 7, 2017 2:52 pm

I'm basically waiting for Mark Cuban or some other billionaire visionary to propose some new world basketball championship thingy played at the right times to oppose this FIBA G league crap.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#16 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jul 7, 2017 7:35 pm

Rastas wrote:I'm basically waiting for Mark Cuban or some other billionaire visionary to propose some new world basketball championship thingy played at the right times to oppose this FIBA G league crap.


Yeah, but the problem is the last time that Cuban mentioned that, he implied that he wanted the NBA to own it, and then for NBA owners and players to get money off it. I can't see any way in hell that any national federation or team other than USA would ever agree to that.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#17 » by sisibilio » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:02 pm

In the prequailifyers Albania lost by 76 points after finishing up by 2 the first quarter.
Doesn't smell fishy AT ALL.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#18 » by madskillz8 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:46 pm

This should be a game-changer in FIBA-Euroleague dispute.

Federations of biggest European national leagues in Spain, Turkey, Italy, Russia, Greece and Germany have discussed the issue and released the following statement against Euroleague.

Image
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#19 » by mojo13 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:13 pm

This means nothing. You expect anything different here? These are the national FIBA federations - what else are they going to say?
Maybe FIBA should try something other than threats, ultimatums, and constant passive aggression.

It is probably more interesting and important that the French federation broke ranks and criticized FIBA.

I sort of like the EL's solution to just do the full slate of home and Homes in the Summer when all players are available.
http://www.mvp247.com/2017/09/euroleague-propose-summer/
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Re: FIBA World Cup Qualifcation Process 

Post#20 » by mojo13 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:49 pm

Weird announcement today with France naming its EL players to its WC Qualification squad.
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/european-qualifiers/news/france-announce-preliminary-squad-for-november-world-cup-qualifiers

Andrew Albicy
Fabien Causeur
Nando de Colo
Boris Diaw
Antoine Diot
Moustapha Fall
Thomas Heurtel
Edwin Jackson
Charles Kahudi
Louis Labeyrie
Adrien Moerman
Vincent Porier
Kevin Seraphin
Axel Toupane
Leo Westermann

Along with 9 back ups (24 total) in case the EL guys are not released.
The players on standby are Axel Boutelille, Mouhammadou Jaiteh, Axel Julien, Alain Koffi, Lahaou Konate, Paul Lacombe, Mathias Lessort, Amine Noua and Elie Okobo.

I am not sure what the heck is going on. Maybe a play to put pressure on the EL to change its dates. Since the deadline for the 24 man roster is now not until Nov 6th they have plenty of time to make chnages.

EDIT: It now seems Italy has done the same:
http://www.fiba.basketball/basketballworldcup/2019/european-qualifiers/news/italy-name-turin-as-venue-for-romania-game-also-announce-24-man-squad
There are five EuroLeague players: Simone Fontecchio and Awudu Abass (Olimpia Milano), Gigi Datome and Nicolò Melli (Fenerbahce), Daniel Hackett (Bamberg).

I guess there is not much downside, as you only need 12 guys. Interesting to see they are naming their best players not in the NBA and are able to name 9 guys they had on the Eurobasket team.

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