Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas

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Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#1 » by Mamba4Goat » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:39 am

Hi guys, I was on Twitter and the topic came up of best player to never play in the NBA. Naturally I picked Llull.

Anyways, it got me thinking as I was diving into the draft a little about this question...

Who's the best undrafted NBA free agent that's playing overseas right now that could eventually come to the NBA?

After doing a quick dive and exploring my initial guess is Scottie Wilbekin.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#2 » by UcanUwill » Wed Apr 1, 2020 7:57 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:Hi guys, I was on Twitter and the topic came up of best player to never play in the NBA. Naturally I picked Llull.

Anyways, it got me thinking as I was diving into the draft a little about this question...

Who's the best undrafted NBA free agent that's playing overseas right now that could eventually come to the NBA?

After doing a quick dive and exploring my initial guess is Scottie Wilbekin.




Wilbekin I dont really like, Mike James is better. Facundo Campazzo I think is the best NBA fit out of all great Euroleague playes - Elite passing and playmaking, pesky defense, very flashy and fast, but very small. Rubio mixed with Barea IMO is who he is, Rubio skill in fast prime Barea's body.

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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#3 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:37 pm

Mamba4Goat wrote:Hi guys, I was on Twitter and the topic came up of best player to never play in the NBA. Naturally I picked Llull.

Anyways, it got me thinking as I was diving into the draft a little about this question...

Who's the best undrafted NBA free agent that's playing overseas right now that could eventually come to the NBA?

After doing a quick dive and exploring my initial guess is Scottie Wilbekin.


Wilbekin is a good player, but he's like a top 10 point guard, that's it.

About Llull being the best ever to not play in the NBA......I love Llull's game, one of my favorite players, but seriously he's no way in hell the best to not play in NBA.

Sergei Belov
Oscar Schmidt
Dimitris Diamantidis
Theo Paploukas
Nick Galis
Drazen Dalipagic
Dejan Bodiroga
Kresimir Cosic
Dragan Kicanovic
Juan Antonio Corbalan
Emiliano Rodriguez
Epi
Miki Berkovich
Radivoj Korac
Wlamir Marques
Carlton Myers
Valdis Valters
Ramunas Siskasukas
Aldo Ossola
Bob Morse
Wayne Brabender
Willy Steveniers
Allain Gilles
Wally Szczerbiak Sr.
Antonello Riva
Panagiotis Giannakis

and probably like 20 other guys in Europe, all had better careers than Llull and never played in NBA.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#4 » by a-French-Fan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:42 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Mamba4Goat wrote:Hi guys, I was on Twitter and the topic came up of best player to never play in the NBA. Naturally I picked Llull.

Anyways, it got me thinking as I was diving into the draft a little about this question...

Who's the best undrafted NBA free agent that's playing overseas right now that could eventually come to the NBA?

After doing a quick dive and exploring my initial guess is Scottie Wilbekin.


Wilbekin is a good player, but he's like a top 10 point guard, that's it.

About Llull being the best ever to not play in the NBA......I love Llull's game, one of my favorite players, but seriously he's no way in hell the best to not play in NBA.

Sergei Belov
Oscar Schmidt
Dimitris Diamantidis
Theo Paploukas
Nick Galis
Drazen Dalipagic
Dejan Bodiroga
Kresimir Cosic
Dragan Kicanovic
Juan Antonio Corbalan
Emiliano Rodriguez
Epi
Miki Berkovich
Radivoj Korac
Wlamir Marques
Carlton Myers
Valdis Valters
Ramunas Siskasukas
Aldo Ossola
Bob Morse
Wayne Brabender
Willy Steveniers
Allain Gilles
Wally Szczerbiak Sr.
Antonello Riva
Panagiotis Giannakis

and probably like 20 other guys in Europe, all had better careers than Llull and never played in NBA.


You forgot De Colo.

Oh wait .. actually , you did not ^^
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#5 » by Maccabi95 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 pm

Some write-ups of guys in EL right now and how they could translate to the NBA in no real order (not going to get into guys in EC or BCL):

guards

Shane Larkin (Efes) -- Coming off a historic EL season. If the shooting he showed this season is legit, he's a borderline starter in the NBA. Will always be a weak defender considering his size but at a certain point the offense is good enough to justify the defense. Well-rounded scorer at three-levels, good P&R creator, above-average athlete even for NBA (uber athlete in EL). I'd give him a one-year contract worth, say, $5 mil, and give him the keys to a second unit.

Facundo Campazzo (Real Madrid) -- As posted above, he's a bit quicker than Barea but decently similar otherwise. Crafty ball skills and creates space with his handle. Elite court vision and it's a pleasure to watch him set up his teammates. Defense and shooting ability are overrated, though. "Pesky" high-risk defender who is hidden well because Real dominates most EL teams physically at other positions. Shot form is weird -- doesn't get great elevation, follow-through is strange. Don't think he's much of a shooter at NBA level with farther 3-point line. I expect he'll get an NBA chance soon, but he could always go back to Real if it doesn't work out -- playing PG for Real is a pretty cushy situation.

Vasilije Micic (Efes) -- Big point guard who's up there with Campazzo and Calathes as best pure passers in Europe right now. Has come a long way with his shot since joining Efes. It's not the focal point of his game but he's enough of a threat to pull up in P&R action to keep the defense honest. Not exactly quick but enough handle to create space. Defense will be a concern as it is with most big, slow European guards, but I think if guys like TJ McConnell can be a primary creator on someone's second unit, Micic could be as well.

Scottie Wilbekin (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Don't think labelling him as "worse Mike James" as done above is at all fair. Wilbekin is the most prolific 3-point weapon in Europe right now. He's an equal threat to pull up from 35 feet in P&R action or to run around screens and drill contested spot-up threes. Translating to longer 3-point line isn't a concern for him since he's a threat to pull up when he crosses halfcourt. More of a combo than others listed -- good passer and creator out of P&R and takes care of ball, but doesn't have a diverse handle to create space. Isn't a threat to finish around the rim given slight frame but very good body control to make tough, sometimes unorthodox, floaters in the lane. Probably best bet of all the PGs to translate defensively -- slight frame prevents him from fighting through screens at times, but solid enough quickness, height/length, and toughness to at least not be liability. I'd give him the keys to a second unit and pair him with a 2 with some handling ability -- Wilbekin and Micic would be a very good fit together. Think Wilbekin's shooting ability makes him an NBA player on some level.

Mike James (CSKA Moscow) -- Coming off his most efficient season in Europe, but his NBA window has probably come and gone. Best athlete of any guard in Europe and his shooting his come a long way, but I'd still be worried about him being an inefficient combo who takes the air out of the ball at the NBA level.

Kostas Sloukas (Fenerbahce) -- Well-rounded guard who can do a bit of everything, although jack-of-all-trades types don't usually pan out from Europe.

Cory Higgins (Barcelona) -- The most complete SG in Europe right now probably. Efficient shooter on low volume, gritty defender with solid size and length, good enough handle to get to basket against set defense and be primary handler in a pinch. Probably not a difference-maker but is probably good enough to stick at the back-end of a rotation.

Tyler Dorsey (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Shooter with size, had solid first year in EL and I'd guess he'll go back to the NBA at some point. Scoring ability in lane needs refinement.

Kevin Pangos (free agent) -- was on the NBA fringe after 2017-18 but had a bad year in his first with Barcelona and was hurt this year. Good shooter and P&R creator, but would be a liability defensively.

wings:

Will Clyburn (CSKA Moscow) -- one of the only true SFs in Europe since most of them get poached to NBA more than any other position. Elite athlete with ball skills. Big concern is his shot but it's improved to where he's not someone the defense begs to shoot.

Janis Timma (Khimki) -- Shooter with size and bounce. A bit of a tweener defensively between 3s and 4s, but shooters with his size don't grow on trees so he's worth a look.

Yovel Zoosman (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Playing second fiddle in terms of hype on his team to Avdija (who I'm not including because, you know, he's going to be drafted) but Zoosman is another young wing with some ball skills. Not as explosive as Avdija and Zoosman needs to work on his shot as well but Zoosman could be on the NBA radar as a minimum guy in a few years.

Toko Shengelia (Baskonia, signed with CSKA Moscow) -- Plays a very strange role for Baskonia as kind of a point center and would translate more to being a combo forward at NBA level. Ridiculously strong frame and decent speed out in transition but not going to beat NBA wings with his first step. Hasn't been much of a shooter in his career and probably saw the writing on the wall that he needs to be a shooter to get back to the NBA as he was taking them much more this season. Interested to see how he fares with CSKA.

bigs:

Nikola Mirotic (Barcelona) -- Obviously turned down big NBA money to be in EL.

Nikola Milutinov (Olympiacos, signed with CSKA) -- May be the most well-rounded center in Europe right now -- strong, athletic, not a statue defensively. I'd have him as a very good back-up but he just reached a megadeal with CSKA so not sure if he's coming over anytime soon.

Eddy Tavares (Real Madrid) -- the NBA game might have grown beyond guys like him, but, man, he's a difference-maker in EL with his length. There has to be a place in the NBA for him although I bet Real gives him all of the money and keeps him.

Anthony Randolph (Real Madrid) -- Has become a competent, consistent stretch four for Real. Could probably be a competent stretch four for someone. But he probably stays with Real.

Devin Booker (Khimki) -- No, not that Devin Booker. This Booker is an undersized center who is probably the best P&R weapon of any big in Europe right now. I think he could fit into someone's second unit as a lob target.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#6 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:04 pm

Maccabi95 wrote:Some write-ups of guys in EL right now and how they could translate to the NBA in no real order (not going to get into guys in EC or BCL):

guards

Shane Larkin (Efes) -- Coming off a historic EL season. If the shooting he showed this season is legit, he's a borderline starter in the NBA. Will always be a weak defender considering his size but at a certain point the offense is good enough to justify the defense. Well-rounded scorer at three-levels, good P&R creator, above-average athlete even for NBA (uber athlete in EL). I'd give him a one-year contract worth, say, $5 mil, and give him the keys to a second unit.

Facundo Campazzo (Real Madrid) -- As posted above, he's a bit quicker than Barea but decently similar otherwise. Crafty ball skills and creates space with his handle. Elite court vision and it's a pleasure to watch him set up his teammates. Defense and shooting ability are overrated, though. "Pesky" high-risk defender who is hidden well because Real dominates most EL teams physically at other positions. Shot form is weird -- doesn't get great elevation, follow-through is strange. Don't think he's much of a shooter at NBA level with farther 3-point line. I expect he'll get an NBA chance soon, but he could always go back to Real if it doesn't work out -- playing PG for Real is a pretty cushy situation.

Vasilije Micic (Efes) -- Big point guard who's up there with Campazzo and Calathes as best pure passers in Europe right now. Has come a long way with his shot since joining Efes. It's not the focal point of his game but he's enough of a threat to pull up in P&R action to keep the defense honest. Not exactly quick but enough handle to create space. Defense will be a concern as it is with most big, slow European guards, but I think if guys like TJ McConnell can be a primary creator on someone's second unit, Micic could be as well.

Scottie Wilbekin (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Don't think labelling him as "worse Mike James" as done above is at all fair. Wilbekin is the most prolific 3-point weapon in Europe right now. He's an equal threat to pull up from 35 feet in P&R action or to run around screens and drill contested spot-up threes. Translating to longer 3-point line isn't a concern for him since he's a threat to pull up when he crosses halfcourt. More of a combo than others listed -- good passer and creator out of P&R and takes care of ball, but doesn't have a diverse handle to create space. Isn't a threat to finish around the rim given slight frame but very good body control to make tough, sometimes unorthodox, floaters in the lane. Probably best bet of all the PGs to translate defensively -- slight frame prevents him from fighting through screens at times, but solid enough quickness, height/length, and toughness to at least not be liability. I'd give him the keys to a second unit and pair him with a 2 with some handling ability -- Wilbekin and Micic would be a very good fit together. Think Wilbekin's shooting ability makes him an NBA player on some level.

Mike James (CSKA Moscow) -- Coming off his most efficient season in Europe, but his NBA window has probably come and gone. Best athlete of any guard in Europe and his shooting his come a long way, but I'd still be worried about him being an inefficient combo who takes the air out of the ball at the NBA level.

Kostas Sloukas (Fenerbahce) -- Well-rounded guard who can do a bit of everything, although jack-of-all-trades types don't usually pan out from Europe.

Cory Higgins (Barcelona) -- The most complete SG in Europe right now probably. Efficient shooter on low volume, gritty defender with solid size and length, good enough handle to get to basket against set defense and be primary handler in a pinch. Probably not a difference-maker but is probably good enough to stick at the back-end of a rotation.

Tyler Dorsey (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Shooter with size, had solid first year in EL and I'd guess he'll go back to the NBA at some point. Scoring ability in lane needs refinement.

Kevin Pangos (free agent) -- was on the NBA fringe after 2017-18 but had a bad year in his first with Barcelona and was hurt this year. Good shooter and P&R creator, but would be a liability defensively.

wings:

Will Clyburn (CSKA Moscow) -- one of the only true SFs in Europe since most of them get poached to NBA more than any other position. Elite athlete with ball skills. Big concern is his shot but it's improved to where he's not someone the defense begs to shoot.

Janis Timma (Khimki) -- Shooter with size and bounce. A bit of a tweener defensively between 3s and 4s, but shooters with his size don't grow on trees so he's worth a look.

Yovel Zoosman (Maccabi Tel Aviv) -- Playing second fiddle in terms of hype on his team to Avdija (who I'm not including because, you know, he's going to be drafted) but Zoosman is another young wing with some ball skills. Not as explosive as Avdija and Zoosman needs to work on his shot as well but Zoosman could be on the NBA radar as a minimum guy in a few years.

Toko Shengelia (Baskonia, signed with CSKA Moscow) -- Plays a very strange role for Baskonia as kind of a point center and would translate more to being a combo forward at NBA level. Ridiculously strong frame and decent speed out in transition but not going to beat NBA wings with his first step. Hasn't been much of a shooter in his career and probably saw the writing on the wall that he needs to be a shooter to get back to the NBA as he was taking them much more this season. Interested to see how he fares with CSKA.

bigs:

Nikola Mirotic (Barcelona) -- Obviously turned down big NBA money to be in EL.

Nikola Milutinov (Olympiacos, signed with CSKA) -- May be the most well-rounded center in Europe right now -- strong, athletic, not a statue defensively. I'd have him as a very good back-up but he just reached a megadeal with CSKA so not sure if he's coming over anytime soon.

Eddy Tavares (Real Madrid) -- the NBA game might have grown beyond guys like him, but, man, he's a difference-maker in EL with his length. There has to be a place in the NBA for him although I bet Real gives him all of the money and keeps him.

Anthony Randolph (Real Madrid) -- Has become a competent, consistent stretch four for Real. Could probably be a competent stretch four for someone. But he probably stays with Real.

Devin Booker (Khimki) -- No, not that Devin Booker. This Booker is an undersized center who is probably the best P&R weapon of any big in Europe right now. I think he could fit into someone's second unit as a lob target.



Some of those are drafted, like Timma or Tavares, Mirotic and Larkin of course. Tavares would make terrible NBA player, cant guard perimeter at all with zero offensive skill, would be one of the worst players on both ends in the NBA, but everyone already knows what I think of Tavares, the most ridiculous DPOY of all time, any coach worth a salt can turn him into defensive liability facing him.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#7 » by Maccabi95 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:24 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Some of those are drafted, like Timma or Tavares, Mirotic and Larkin of course. Tavares would make terrible NBA player, cant guard perimeter at all with zero offensive skill, would be one of the worst players on both ends in the NBA, but everyone already knows what I think of Tavares, the most ridiculous DPOY of all time, any coach worth a salt can turn him into defensive liability facing him.


Sure, I was writing from the perspective of guys who were in Europe in general because if you're specifically looking for UDFAs who have never played in the NBA, the list of guys who could actually play in the NBA is pretty short.

From my list you're only left with:

Campazzo
Wilbekin
Sloukas
Pangos
Clyburn
Zoosman
Booker

Of those guys, I think Campazzo and Wilbekin are the two most likely to get a non-minimum contract. I wouldn't see Sloukas or Pangos sticking. Clyburn depends on his health. Zoosman could be a developmental candidate. Booker would be a minimum guy.

And, regarding Tavares, he certainly isn't switching on the P&R, lol, and the NBA has certainly moved beyond players like him. I do think his impact in EL is certainly overall positive, though.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#8 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:35 pm

Maccabi95 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Some of those are drafted, like Timma or Tavares, Mirotic and Larkin of course. Tavares would make terrible NBA player, cant guard perimeter at all with zero offensive skill, would be one of the worst players on both ends in the NBA, but everyone already knows what I think of Tavares, the most ridiculous DPOY of all time, any coach worth a salt can turn him into defensive liability facing him.


Sure, I was writing from the perspective of guys who were in Europe in general because if you're specifically looking for UDFAs who have never played in the NBA, the list of guys who could actually play in the NBA is pretty short.

From my list you're only left with:

Campazzo
Wilbekin
Sloukas
Pangos
Clyburn
Zoosman
Booker

Of those guys, I think Campazzo and Wilbekin are the two most likely to get a non-minimum contract. I wouldn't see Sloukas or Pangos sticking. Clyburn depends on his health. Zoosman could be a developmental candidate. Booker would be a minimum guy.

And, regarding Tavares, he certainly isn't switching on the P&R, lol, and the NBA has certainly moved beyond players like him. I do think his impact in EL is certainly overall positive, though.


Campazzo should be in the league, he is one of those players who if he never comes, it will be crazy to think such player never played in the NBA. Not to mention hes just such a good fit and is the most NBA material player not in the NBA IMO. MAybe not the best Euroleague player, but most NBA material player in my opinion.

Wilbekin I dont really like because he excels as the main guy, he is great when hes the most talented guy on a team, but in the NBA, with lets say at least 3 more talented perimeter players on a team, can he actually play the role of, well, role player? I dont really know, and I think thats why players like him are often ignored by NBA GMs. Like who would have thought Daniel Theis would be better NBA player than Larkin, but he is, and when you put actual thought, its really not that crazy or surprising. I mean NBA has far less talented players than Wilbekin, sure, but I will not lose sleep if he never comes around.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#9 » by Maccabi95 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:09 pm

Wilbekin doesn't require the ball in his hands. Probably his biggest strength is spot-up shooting and running around screens to spot-up shooting. That separates him from guys like James, who really need the ball in their hands to be effective.

I think his issue is that NBA GMs are just going to view him as an NBA SG, and that is going to make working defensive sets with him difficult. But if you find a spot for him on a team that has a 2 or 3 who can handle the ball well enough to let Wilbekin play off the ball a decent amount, I think he could be a surprisingly impactful shot maker, who unlike most of these guys, wouldn't be a liability defensively (if he's guarding other backup PGs).

I voiced my concerns with Campazzo -- not sure if his shooting or defense translates. But he's such a good passer that I'd be willing to find out.

But NBA would likely be a paycut for both, and definitely a smaller role for both. Same for Larkin, Clyburn, Shengelia, etc. So it's tough to see any of them coming over tbh.
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Re: Best undrafted NBA free agent overseas 

Post#10 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jul 2, 2020 7:29 am

their first contract would be a paycut, but sometimes you need to bet on yourself, because if you prove yourself, you will get that NBA CAP money. Worse players than Campazzo are getting 10 million a year in the NBA. I think Facundos defense would definitely translate, and yes, his shooting sucks, but he is not as inept a scorer as Rubio was for most of his career.

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