EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season

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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#41 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 3:04 pm

UcanUwill wrote:What was wrong with Guduric in Memphis, he sucked so bad shooting basketball, now back in Europe and looks elite again with his pull ups and step backs.


Guduric is a good player, but that's it. He's nothing special. He's averaging 11 points a game. Which is certainly good for EuroLeague, but nothing great or anything, at least not with over 25 minutes of playing time, and being on a team where he has other players creating for him.

I mean, he looks a bit better than he did before he went to the NBA, but not by all that much really.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#42 » by a-French-Fan » Fri Mar 5, 2021 2:52 pm

I really liked to watch Jokubaitis against ASVEL this week. I hope that GMs will see how he's good.
Frank Ntilikina is a play-off player, but he plays for the Knicks.

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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#43 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:59 pm

Zenit scored 5 points in the 4th quarter, 20 points in the 2nd half, and just 33 points in the last 3 quarters...........

2nd Quarter: 13 points
3rd Quarter: 15 points
4th Quarter: 5 points


Box Score:

https://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=259&seasoncode=E2020

If it wasn't for the Sloukas / Koufos pick and roll and switch defense (worst defensive pair in EuroLeague by far), that Bartzokas decided to play the 1st quarter with, Zenit might not have hit 40 points for the whole game.......
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#44 » by UcanUwill » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:41 pm

Regular season is almost over, lets predict all Euroleague teams, who would you have? First team was very easy for me, second one is far more debatable

All First team

Valter Tavares
Nikola Mirotic
Nando DeColo
Vasilije Micic
Mike James

All Second team

Bojan Dubljevic
Jan Vesely
Marius Grigonis
Cory Higgins
Shane Larkin

All Defensive team (if it were one)

Brandon Davies
Chris Singleton
Shaquielle McKissic
Dogus Balbay
Thomas Walkup
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#45 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:34 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Regular season is almost over, lets predict all Euroleague teams, who would you have? First team was very easy for me, second one is far more debatable

All First team

Valter Tavares
Nikola Mirotic
Nando DeColo
Vasilije Micic
Mike James

All Second team

Bojan Dubljevic
Jan Vesely
Marius Grigonis
Cory Higgins
Shane Larkin

All Defensive team (if it were one)

Brandon Davies
Chris Singleton
Shaquielle McKissic
Dogus Balbay
Thomas Walkup


I'm not really feeling Dubljevic on the All-EuroLeague Team. He's one of my favorite EuroLeague players, but he didn't seem that good this year to me. I'm not sure about Grigonis either. He was playing really well to start the season, but he's cooled off a lot. I'm not even sold on Larkin deserving to be on the team either.

As for the all-defense team........McKissic? He's not a good defender at all. Rather poor actually. He gambles a ton and gets some steals because of that. That's pretty much all he does on defense. His pick and roll defense and man to man defense are absolutely atrocious for the most part.

I really like McKissick overall as a player. He's super aggressive and he might be the most explosive perimeter player in EuroLeague. But he's most definitely a bad defender. He's actually probably the worst defender Olympiacos has at the wing positions.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#46 » by UcanUwill » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:54 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Regular season is almost over, lets predict all Euroleague teams, who would you have? First team was very easy for me, second one is far more debatable

All First team

Valter Tavares
Nikola Mirotic
Nando DeColo
Vasilije Micic
Mike James

All Second team

Bojan Dubljevic
Jan Vesely
Marius Grigonis
Cory Higgins
Shane Larkin

All Defensive team (if it were one)

Brandon Davies
Chris Singleton
Shaquielle McKissic
Dogus Balbay
Thomas Walkup


I'm not really feeling Dubljevic on the All-EuroLeague Team. He's one of my favorite EuroLeague players, but he didn't seemt at good this year to me. I'm not sure about Grigonis either. He was playing really well to start the season, but he's cooled off a lot. I'm not even sold on Larkin deserving to be on the team either.

As for the all-defense team........McKissic? Really? He's not a good defender at all. Rather poor actually. He gambles a ton and gets some steals because of that. That's pretty much all he does on defense. His pick and roll defense and man to man defense are absolutely atrocious for the most part.

I really like McKissick overall as a player. He's super aggressive and he might be the most explosive perimeter player in EuroLeague. But he's most definitely a bad defender. He's actually probably the worst defender Olympiacos has at the wing positions.


Yeah, as I said second team was hard, I went with Grigonis and Dubljevic because their percentages are still pretty elite, Dubljevic is just so good against players like Tavares, he can be a game changer in a series I think (maybe I already projecting possible play offs on a regular season list, kinda like NBA voters will project play offs dud on Giannis this year and most likely wont vote for him as MVP). And Grigonis is just easily top class player this year, up and downs lately, but he almost always get his numbers, 2 incredible game winners, insane percentages, I stick with my choice. And speaking about Larkin, hes been cooking, I think he is a lock for a all Euroleague team at this point.

McKissick was my most not surish pick, I just went with numbers, Hanga had better numbers, but I thought I will go with something more obscure. I think Thomas Walkup is a lock as best PG defender, Singleton is as good as it gets at PF, Center is really up to the debate, lots of good choices. A lot of people might say Tavares is a lock, and I settled with the fact that Tavares is good in Euroleague, but really yesterdays game once again shook Tavares credibility as defender in my eyes, they put Shengelia and Voightman and Tavares instantly turned into biggest liability. Thats why I dont like him as DPOY or best Center defender, I think Davies or Hines, they are not as dominant on defense in some areas, but they never a liability, Tavares for how good of a rim protector he is, he is just so bad at perimeter and pick and pop defense.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#47 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:32 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Yeah, as I said second team was hard, I went with Grigonis and Dubljevic because their percentages are still pretty elite, Dubljevic is just so good against players like Tavares, he can be a game changer in a series I think (maybe I already projecting possible play offs on a regular season list, kinda like NBA voters will project play offs dud on Giannis this year and most likely wont vote for him as MVP). And Grigonis is just easily top class player this year, up and downs lately, but he almost always get his numbers, 2 incredible game winners, insane percentages, I stick with my choice. And speaking about Larkin, hes been cooking, I think he is a lock for a all Euroleague team at this point.

McKissick was my most not surish pick, I just went with numbers, Hanga had better numbers, but I thought I will go with something more obscure. I think Thomas Walkup is a lock as best PG defender, Singleton is as good as it gets at PF, Center is really up to the debate, lots of good choices. A lot of people might say Tavares is a lock, and I settled with the fact that Tavares is good in Euroleague, but really yesterdays game once again shook Tavares credibility as defender in my eyes, they put Shengelia and Voightman and Tavares instantly turned into biggest liability. Thats why I dont like him as DPOY or best Center defender, I think Davies or Hines, they are not as dominant on defense in some areas, but they never a liability, Tavares for how good of a rim protector he is, he is just so bad at perimeter and pick and pop defense.


Don't get me wrong, I really like Dubljevic and Grigonis. But I'm just not sure that Dubljevic had an All-EuroLeague level this year. As for Grigonis, he probably did, he was probably even an MVP candidate early in the year. But his team doesn't look like they are going to make the playoffs. I have a hard time putting someone on the All-EuroLeague team if they don't even make the playoffs.

I think I might put Howard Sant-Roos on a defensive team. He's a very versatile defender. And maybe also Pierria Henry. He's a really tough perimeter defender, for the most part. As far as defense at the center position, Dunston is probably still the best defender at that spot.

There seems to be a double standard with how people judge Tavarers on defense. He almost completely shuts down the paint area and around the rim, but as you said, he can't guard outside the paint, due to his enormous size. But he's basically considered an elite defender it seems. I would compare that as a strange double standard to Papagiannis. Papagiannis also shuts down the paint area for the most part, and he might actually be an even better shot blocker than Tavares. He's certainly quicker and gets to the ball faster, and is definitely a better weak side help shot blocker. Papagiannis has the same issue on defense of course, of not being able to cover on the perimeter, again because of enormous size. But when you compare him to Taveres, Papagiannis is more mobile, quicker, faster, more athletic, and he's actually also noticeably better at covering on the perimeter. I mean he struggles with it, but he's not a complete liability with it. At times he does a good job even at showing on the picks and then recovering to the paint, or to a corner shooter.

Basically, Papagiannis is a better version of Taveres on defense. Yet, he's basically considered to be a horrible defensive player, while Taveres is considered to be elite. European basketball has some of the same complete BS on who is a good defender and who is a bad defender as the NBA does. It's pretty much the same thing with how some fans / media just start saying a player is a good / bad defender and that's pretty much it. That's how they are rated, whether it's true or not.

A perfect example is the trolling of Panathinaikos fans and media. Diamantidis was never the best offensive player, so to make him be the "best player ever", and "even better than Jordan", they just started trolling and spamming endlessly about how he was this god on defense. It worked, he kept winning defense awards and now people that didn't actually watch and analyze, believe he was peak Pippen on defense or something. The reality is that he often couldn't guard the small and quick point guards.

It's funny actually, because on Panathinaikos, and the Greek NT, it was Spanoulis that always got assigned to guard the best offensive guard of the other team, and not Diamantidis.......How does that make any sense at all if Diamantidis is really "the greatest defender of all time", as the ridiculous trolling and spamming claims he is.

Or in the NBA, like are we really to believe that guys like Kobe and LeBron were always elite defenders? Even in their mid to late 30s? Even when they were clearly taking off lots of possessions on defense, even entire games, or even whole stretches of the season on defense? Somehow we are, because with that being the case, they would still get on an all defense team.

Unfortunately, the whole so and so is a good or bad defender is largely just based on fan and media trolling and spamming. Tavares, as an example, is really obviously a case of just exactly that. Granted, he does shut down the paint area, but it still doesn't add up to being a defensive player of the year. There are other centers that also shut down the paint, and can cover on picks and switches, for example, someone like Dunston. Actually, on Tavares' own team, Garuba is probably a better all around defender at the five position than.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#48 » by Fundamentals21 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:38 pm

Was watchin' this the other day... Good peek into Larkin.

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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#49 » by UcanUwill » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:05 am

Larkins home is pretty sweat, got to say.

ABout other things, Tadas Sedekerskis is really good and versatile defender, he might have a spot at Lithuanian NT.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#50 » by UcanUwill » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:23 pm

Mike James with ANOTHER conflict with coach. Yeah, this guy is fools gold.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#51 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:32 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Mike James with ANOTHER conflict with coach. Yeah, this guy is fools gold.


There are media reports of this same thing from every team and coach he's played on in his career.....
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#52 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:38 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Mike James with ANOTHER conflict with coach. Yeah, this guy is fools gold.


There are media reports of this same thing from every team and coach he's played on in his career.....


Yeah, I know, I thought Messina screwed up at first, but now it all makes sense, guy just can't be content with his coaches.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#53 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:45 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Yeah, I know, I thought Messina screwed up at first, but now it all makes sense, guy just can't be content with his coaches.


What more does he want? He's literally been given the green light to do whatever he wants on the last two teams he played on (Milano and CSKA).

Jasikevicius, Siskauskas, Spanoulis, Teodosic, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, De Colo, Navarro, Manu, Bodiroga, Parker..........I can't remember any of them ever getting a 100% green light on any team. Llull had it maybe for just a little bit in Real Madrid, but not to the extent James has had in his last two teams. And that's really just because Laso is like Europe's version of D'Antoni.

The only other example is obviously Shved.......and it's become almost comical how bad his team has been over the years. I guess Khimki just uses Shved like a marketing tool, with no intention of being able to actually win. Kind of like a weird NBA style marketing gimmick, which doesn't work in European basketball.

In CSKA, James has been playing like Shved also, like it's back to the 1980s to 1990s of European basketball..........when guys like Dalipagic, Galis, Petrovic, Schmidt, Carlton Myers, Danilovic, Alphonso Ford, etc., could literally just ball hog and chuck endlessly and it was allowed.

That type of individualism hasn't been a thing in high level European basketball for the last 15-20 years or so. Yet, teams have been allowing James to play just that way. And it's not like the other example with Shved, where the team expects to lose basically. Milano and especially CSKA want to tin. CSKA wants to win championships.

Itoudis is Obradovic's protégé, and Obradovic has one of the most structured and rigid offensive systems ever. Yet, Itoudis is just letting James ball out all the time. Same thing with Messina in Milano. Messina runs a super rigid and structured offense, yet James was just allowed to play however he wanted.

Like, what exactly does James want from his teams? Does he want to be able to play like James Harden? Surely he can grasp that's impossible to work in EuroLeague?
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#54 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 2, 2021 3:54 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Yeah, I know, I thought Messina screwed up at first, but now it all makes sense, guy just can't be content with his coaches.


What more does he want? He's literally been given the green light to do whatever he wants on the last two teams he played on (Milano and CSKA).

Jasikevicius, Siskauskas, Spanoulis, Teodosic, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, De Colo, Navarro, Manu, Bodiroga, Parker..........I can't remember any of them ever getting a 100% green light on any team. Llull had it maybe for just a little bit in Real Madrid, but not to the extent James has had in his last two teams. And that's really just because Laso is like Europe's version of D'Antoni.

The only other example is obviously Shved.......and it's become almost comical how bad his team has been over the years. I guess Khimki just uses Shved like a marketing tool, with no intention of being able to actually win. Kind of like a weird NBA style marketing gimmick, which doesn't work in European basketball.

In CSKA, James has been playing like Shved also, like it's back to the 1980s to 1990s of European basketball..........when guys like Dalipagic, Galis, Petrovic, Schmidt, Carlton Myers, Danilovic, Alphonso Ford, etc., could literally just ball hog and chuck endlessly and it was allowed.

That type of individualism hasn't been a thing in high level European basketball for the last 15-20 years or so. Yet, teams have been allowing James to play just that way. And it's not like the other example with Shved, where the team expects to lose basically. Milano and especially CSKA want to tin. CSKA wants to win championships.

Itoudis is Obradovic's protégé, and Obradovic has one of the most structured and rigid offensive systems ever. Yet, Itoudis is just letting James ball out all the time. Same thing with Messina in Milano. Messina runs a super rigid and structured offense, yet James was just allowed to play however he wanted.

Like, what exactly does James want from his teams? Does he want to be able to play like James Harden? Surely he can grasp that's impossible to work in EuroLeague?


I have no idea what is James problem, but I don't think it had much to do with basketball. James did improved his game, it was leading to wins and his efficiency was good. In the past he was hilarious chucker, but this year he was legit good, I wanted him to win MVP, but yeah, as I said he was a fools gold all along, because as usual now, he once again became persona non grata on his own team right before most important part of the season starts, James is probably done in Euroleague, he can probably average 40 points in China or if hes lucky he will get bench role in the NBA.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#55 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 4:26 pm

UcanUwill wrote:I have no idea what is James problem, but I don't think it had much to do with basketball. James did improved his game, it was leading to wins and his efficiency was good. In the past he was hilarious chucker, but this year he was legit good, I wanted him to win MVP, but yeah, as I said he was a fools gold all along, because as usual now, he once again became persona non grata on his own team right before most important part of the season starts, James is probably done in Euroleague, he can probably average 40 points in China or if hes lucky he will get bench role in the NBA.


Yeah, unfortunately, China seems about right. Jimmer is there because he just wants to shoot 30 times a game and play no defense. James probably ends up there because of whatever.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#56 » by UcanUwill » Fri Apr 2, 2021 8:06 pm

God damn Koufos is bad, how was he in the NBA for so long, brutal.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#57 » by Mirotic12 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 7:37 am

UcanUwill wrote:God damn Koufos is bad, how was he in the NBA for so long, brutal.


He was 1-9 on literally point blank layups and dunks.......there were like 5 times that Spanoulis spoon fed him a wide open layup or dunk and he missed it badly.............

All those years when he played on Greece's national team he was bad. I mean Bourousis was like light years better than him. But all the NBA only fans claimed Koufos was "Greece's best player" and that Bourousis "wasn't good enough for the NBA".

Whatever.

The combination of Koufos and Sloukas on defense is what is so horrific. Koufos is a bad defender, especially on pick and roll, switches and close outs.......Sloukas might be the worst defensive point guard in EuroLeague. I actually can't think of any point guard as bad as him on defense.

Hopefully that combination is never used in the Greek NT this summer.

James' agent is saying he's going back to the NBA....

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