EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season

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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#21 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:21 pm

I was thinking that Sloukas was playing better lately, and then I saw a stat that Olympiacos has the lowest plus minus of any team in EuroLeague, when he is on the floor..............

I knew he was playing bad, but not that bad. He's really skilled and smart, but he's been an enormous bust so far.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#22 » by UcanUwill » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:19 pm

I just now realized Mike Batiste is assistant coach of Orlando Magic, and hes been assistant in the NBA since 2017.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#23 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:06 pm

UcanUwill wrote:I just now realized Mike Batiste is assistant coach of Orlando Magic, and hes been assistant in the NBA since 2017.


Maybe Panathinaikos should hire him. Their experiment with Vovoras is not working at all. I doubt Batiste could do any worse.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#24 » by UcanUwill » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:50 pm

Derrick Williams compared Zelko Obradovic's BBIQ to LeBron James

“He is an excellent coach”, Williams said. “He knows everything about basketball, he’s probably the smartest person I’ve ever met. There are only two people who for me are at that level of knowing everything about the game: LeBron James and Zeljko Obradovic. They know everything about the other team, they know everything. about all the players on our team. Having a coach like that makes you want to work a lot harder, so I give him a lot of credit. I wasn’t used to having that kind of start that we had (last season with Fenerbahce), but that made us want to work a lot harder for him, to make him smile and really enjoy himself”, adds Williams, who won the Turkish Cup in 2020 under the guidance of Obradovic.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#25 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:59 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Derrick Williams compared Zelko Obradovic's BBIQ to LeBron James

“He is an excellent coach”, Williams said. “He knows everything about basketball, he’s probably the smartest person I’ve ever met. There are only two people who for me are at that level of knowing everything about the game: LeBron James and Zeljko Obradovic. They know everything about the other team, they know everything. about all the players on our team. Having a coach like that makes you want to work a lot harder, so I give him a lot of credit. I wasn’t used to having that kind of start that we had (last season with Fenerbahce), but that made us want to work a lot harder for him, to make him smile and really enjoy himself”, adds Williams, who won the Turkish Cup in 2020 under the guidance of Obradovic.


Is it really a compliment to compare a very long time head coach's basketball knowledge tot hat of a player? No matter what player? Kind of seems like a diss.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#26 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:06 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Is it really a compliment to compare a very long time head coach's basketball knowledge tot hat of a player? No matter what player? Kind of seems like a diss.


I dont think so in this case, cause LeBron is basketball memory bank, he knows everything about ever single coach and he remembers every play. Listen to Iman Shumperts interview on LeBron, LeBrons basketball knowledge is freaky.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#27 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Euroleague sideline reporters ARE SO BAD, but Zenit one has to be the worst, cant speak any English, cant understand what is he trying to say and neither did he himself.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#28 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:58 pm

That's literally - literally, the 5th game this season that Sloukas lost by himself for Olympiacos in just the last 5 seconds of the game, twice already against Zalgiris. He is such a choker. That combined with his awful defense........I used to really like Sloukas, but he's become the biggest fool's gold player I've ever seen in EuroLeague. No wonder Fener was so desperate to get rid of him.

And Bartzokas is just making it worse, as he insists on starting the game with Sloukas and Charles Jenkins together in the back court. They are both so damn awful on defense. The other team is always getting it rolling on offense, especially the guards because of that. It's so odd that the coach keeps using them together, when they are both so horrific on defense.

I can't even imagine how bad Sloukas would get killed on social media if he was choking away so many games, in such a horrible manner in the NBA. I've honestly never seen anything like it. Three of the chokes are among the all time worst I've ever seen, and losing the ball to Walkup was one of the worst chokes ever in EuroLeague.

I can't believe they gave Sloukas €5.5 million euros net income.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#29 » by UcanUwill » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:55 pm

I was about to write that Spanoulis is still best closer in the league easily, but Sloukas made it all for not. In Sloukas defense, Walkup is probably the best defender at PG position in Euroleague.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#30 » by JohnWillow » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:46 pm

Not about Euroleague, but Kyle Allman JR who is playing for VEF Riga in Champions League will be in the NBA in the next two years!

Such a great player wow.
Celtics fan. :crazy:
We also face the Kings twice in the near future. I think it's time Yabu pays back some of that free money he's been given his entire career and bounces Fox for a nice 2 week ankle sprain.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#31 » by UcanUwill » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:13 pm

James situation in Moscow basically opened Nikola Mirotic an open pathway to get MVP, I was pulling for Mike James all year long.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#32 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:48 pm

UcanUwill wrote:James situation in Moscow basically opened Nikola Mirotic an open pathway to get MVP, I was pulling for Mike James all year long.


Mirotic has been OK. I've watched most of Barca's games, and he has not played anything close to MVP level. I would have given it to Lucic, but as usual, he got hurt.

Mirotic isn't even the best player on Barca. If you watch the games, guys like Higgins and Davies, hell even Calathes are more important for them.

Unfortunately, Mirotic is obviously never going to change. He is still soft as can be on offense, very inconsistent with his 3 point shot, and still horrible on defense. And he still needs other players to create, and to just mainly be able to shoot open jumpers off their creation. He made a good choice in going to Barca, because he needs multiple scorers around him to take the defense pressure, so he can just shoot open jumpers mostly.

He isn't an MVP level player, and EuroLeague shouldn't give him that award. It would be even a worse choice than when they gave it to Bjelica and even worse than when they gave it to Vesely. Between those two getting the award, even Kirilenko was a questionable selection........and if Mirotic gets it, then that award is becoming a joke, even worse than the NBA MVP is with Giannis winning back to back.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#33 » by UcanUwill » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:James situation in Moscow basically opened Nikola Mirotic an open pathway to get MVP, I was pulling for Mike James all year long.


Mirotic has been OK. I've watched most of Barca's games, and he has not played anything close to MVP level. I would have given it to Lucic, but as usual, he got hurt.

Mirotic isn't even the best player on Barca. If you watch the games, guys like Higgins and Davies, hell even Calathes are more important for them.

Unfortunately, Mirotic is obviously never going to change. He is still soft as can be on offense, very inconsistent with his 3 point shot, and still horrible on defense. And he still needs other players to create, and to just mainly be able to shoot open jumpers off their creation. He made a good choice in going to Barca, because he needs multiple scorers around him to take the defense pressure, so he can just shoot open jumpers mostly.

He isn't an MVP level player, and EuroLeague shouldn't give him that award. It would be even a worse choice than when they gave it to Bjelica and even worse than when they gave it to Vesely. Between those two getting the award, even Kirilenko was a questionable selection........and if Mirotic gets it, then that award is becoming a joke, even worse than the NBA MVP is with Giannis winning back to back.



Once again with BS post mate. Mirotic started the season insane, he cooled off recently. First half of the season, Mirotic was easily Barca's MVP, last couple of games are probably Calathes'
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#34 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:47 pm

It's not BS. It's factual and objective game analysis. Mirotic just basically shoots jumpers all game long, thrown in with some post ups of guards on switches. He needs other offensive players around him to create for him. On defense he's absolutely awful. He's a very good rebounder also, but he spends so much time away from the basket on offense, that it negates some of his rebounding, at least offensively.

Overall, he's not an MVP kind of player.

Name me a nearly pure stretch four with bad defense that should be the MVP in the NBA, or any serious league. I mean come on, you are acting like the offense runs through Mirotic, when it actually doesn't. In fact, he has so many good players around him that he never even sees a double team.

He's a very good player, but he's no MVP. At least not any legit MVP, which is why it would be stupid if he got that award.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#35 » by UcanUwill » Wed Feb 3, 2021 4:49 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:It's not BS. It's factual and objective game analysis. Mirotic just basically shoots jumpers all game long, thrown in with some post ups of guards on switches. He needs other offensive players around him to create for him. On defense he's absolutely awful. He's a very good rebounder also, but he spends so much time away from the basket on offense, that it negates some of his rebounding, at least offensively.

Overall, he's not an MVP kind of player.

Name me a nearly pure stretch four with bad defense that should be the MVP in the NBA, or any serious league. I mean come on, you are acting like the offense runs through Mirotic, when it actually doesn't. In fact, he has so many good players around him that he never even sees a double team.

He's a very good player, but he's no MVP. At least not any legit MVP, which is why it would be stupid if he got that award.



He is still the best player on the best team, he shoots 4.5 FTs a game and has PIR of 22 in under 25 minutes, so not exactly just a shooter, someone like Nicolo Melli was just a shooter and good defensive rebounder, Mirotic is far more dynamic scoring mashine, far worse performers have won Euroleague MVP, as I said he slowed down now, but early in the season guy was The Problem in the league.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#36 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 6:48 pm

UcanUwill wrote:He is still the best player on the best team, he shoots 4.5 FTs a game and has PIR of 22 in under 25 minutes, so not exactly just a shooter, someone like Nicolo Melli was just a shooter and good defensive rebounder, Mirotic is far more dynamic scoring mashine, far worse performers have won Euroleague MVP, as I said he slowed down now, but early in the season guy was The Problem in the league.


PIR is one of the most overrated stats there is, very possibly THE most overrated. It's particularly biased in favor any player 6-8 (around 2.04) or taller, since PIR counts a rebound as a plus 1. Further on that, it counts a block as a plus one and a block against as a minus 1 (which makes no sense at all since the blocked player already gets deducted for a missed shot). So it's really biased in favor of guys 6-10 (around 2.08) and taller. In addition to that, it counts each point as plusses and each missed shot as a minus. So again, that is biased in favor or bigger players and/or players that shoot high percentage shots mostly around the rim. Someone that shoots all their shots within 2-3 feet from the rim (Vesely, Hassan Martin, Taveres, etc.) will of course have a higher PIR than other players, because every shot is right at the rim.

It's also biased against smaller players and/or creators, because it counts an assist as + one, and assists are very hard to gain in the way FIBA counts them in the box score. It also deducts for each shot missed, so the more jump shots a player has to take (smaller players), it lowers their PIR. The same with the end of the shot clock shots, long range difficult threes with the shot clock about to expire and often being contested, which usually it is the point guard or whomever the main ball handler/lead guard is that has to take those shots - so again, it lowers their PIR. And again, a blocked shot against counts as a minus 2, as it deducts for the missed shot and the block, which is definitely biased against smaller players.

Then there is how each foul for or against a player is counted as a plus one or minus one, without any context whatsoever, which is of course ridiculous. So if you foul a player to keep him from shooting, say at the end of a quarter with a foul to give, you get a minus 1, despite that you made a positive play for your team, and that's just one example of how counting the fouls like that makes no sense. On top of all of that, it has no weighting or adjusted properties at all. And simply makes a player's PIR either higher or lower, based on their minutes played and usage. The more you play, the more you touch the ball, the higher your PIR, without any consideration for actual performance or efficiency.

It's a stat that really should have no bearing at all on judging how good players are, or who deserves to be the league's MVP.

It's ridiculous that the EuroLeague is even still touting it as an all important and decisive stat.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#37 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Feb 3, 2021 7:11 pm

As for Mirotic, of course he is obviously a better player than Nico Melli, at least on offense (Melli is way better on defense), but that doesn't make him an MVP this season. There are other players that deserve the MVP more than him without question this season. Just saying, which team has the best win/loss record, and which player has the highest PIR on the team, and then saying that player is automatically the league MVP is nonsensical. That can't be the only criteria to decide a league MVP.

The player that has played the best, meant the most to his team, is his team's most important player, has meant the most for wins, etc. - that should be the league MVP. From watching most of Barca's games this season, Mirotic just never looked like he has been at that standard this season. But if he does get the league MVP just because of Barca's win/loss record and his PIR stat, then the league's MVP award is really just a joke. They should just go back to the earlier days when there was no actual MVP award, and they just named the PIR leader the MVP (like when Bodiroga and Sabonis were playing), before they created the actual real MVP award, that was supposed to be voted on. Why even have the actual MVP award created then? Just go back to the old way, when there was no actual MVP award and they just named the PIR leader "MVP", as they still do now with the weekly MVP award.

There is no point to a voted on actual award, if you are just going to look at team records and PIR and then say who has the highest PIR / win loss record. It's largely the same thing as before the award even existed and they just said a PIR leader was "MVP".

And they changed it from that in the first place because they had guys getting "MVP" that clearly were not playing the best in the league. I mean they had Joe Blair as a freaking "MVP" before the award existed, in the old format where they just called the PIR leader "MVP" and didn't have an actual award. Seriously........Joe Blair. To put in perspective how ridiculous that was, on the awards back then that were actually voted on, that actually were given awards, Blair didn't even make the all-EuroLeague team, not the first team and not even the second team. He wasn't even on the 2nd team, and yet was supposedly "MVP" of the league.

Then the next season Sabonis was "MVP" - again not when there was an actual given award, but just the PIR leader being called that, but Sabonis was on a team that did not make it past the top 16. A player doesn't advance past the top 16 and was called "MVP" (the league's name then for the PIR leader). So of course after those examples the league changed that and stopped saying the PIR leader was the MVP, and started giving an actual award, and it was given based on an actual criteria and voting.

So to just say well Mirotic you know he plays on a good team, and look at his PIR so therefore he should win the MVP by default, well that completely eliminated the whole reason why the award was created in 2005 in the first place.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#38 » by UcanUwill » Fri Feb 5, 2021 6:38 pm

What was wrong with Guduric in Memphis, he sucked so bad shooting basketball, now back in Europe and looks elite again with his pull ups and step backs.
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#39 » by reamily » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:41 pm

UcanUwill wrote:What was wrong with Guduric in Memphis, he sucked so bad shooting basketball, now back in Europe and looks elite again with his pull ups and step backs.

Closeouts in nba are much faster than europe, despite euroball being better terms of ball movement and use of big men..therefore with lot of height you can just stand on your zone and do your job on defense..and i really dint sold on guduric release it was evident in the world cup when he wasnt even helping the serbian team
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Re: EUROLEAGUE 2020-21 season 

Post#40 » by UcanUwill » Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:30 pm

Micic just had 37 points on 12 FGA.

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