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This here is a prime example of just how overrated the Euroleague truly is.
If Navarro is the MVP then guys with NBA talent like Nash, Arenas, and Ben Gordon would have to be given 10 MVP trophies in that league if Navarro can win 1.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... eague_mvp/

I hate to break it to you, but traditionally in Europe the final four MVP is the actual main MVP award. The season one is secondary. In the NBA it's opposite, but in Europe the final four MVP has always been the most important award.

Navarro wasn't the final four MVP. With that being said, Navarro is a great player and certainly could be a very good player in the NBA, I have no idea why you think you can make him sound like a poor player, his rookie season in the NBA he was on the all rookie team and he has had a couple huge games against Team USA. Myself, I thought McIntyre and Bourousis deserved the MVP more than he did, but he is a proven NBA player as evidenced by his rookie NBA season.

BTW, the winner of the more important final four MVP was Spanoulis. In case you forgot Spanoulis basically by himself in the 4th quarter beat Paul, Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Howard, Anthony in 2006. Past final four MVPs include NBA hall of famers Bob McAadoo and Dominique Wilkins. Others include Manu Ginobili, Toni Kukoc, Arvydas Sabonis, Anthony Parker (3 straight years a starter in the NBA), Dejan Bodiroga (considered one of the best players that ever lived that did not play in the NBA), Saras Jasikevicius (on several occasions was the nightmare from hell of Team USA), Papaloukas, maybe the best European point guard ever, Diamantidis (every bit as good as Shane Battier), etc..........

So what exactly is your point?

talkbasket wrote:Navarro is a great player and certainly could be a very good player in the NBA.

Navarro is obviously a great player in the Euroleague, he played one season in the NBA at age 27 and proved that he was NOT a "very good" player. He's just a decent player. A guy like Andre Iguodala is a "very good" player. Kirk Hinrich is a "good" player. Navarro is "decent," "okay," or "alright" player, but never "very good." It's not as if Navarro came to the NBA when he was 21 years old and had the season that he had, he was already a 27 year old man FULLY in his basketball prime. Obviously to him it's better to be a great player in the Euroleague with a chance to win MVP every year than it is just to be a decent player in the NBA fighting to become a starter for your team.

PowerElite wrote:

talkbasket wrote:Navarro is a great player and certainly could be a very good player in the NBA.

Navarro is obviously a great player in the Euroleague, he played one season in the NBA at age 27 and proved that he was NOT a "very good" player. He's just a decent player. A guy like Andre Iguodala is a "very good" player. Kirk Hinrich is a "good" player. Navarro is "decent," "okay," or "alright" player, but never "very good." It's not as if Navarro came to the NBA when he was 21 years old and had the season that he had, he was already a 27 year old man FULLY in his basketball prime. Obviously to him it's better to be a great player in the Euroleague with a chance to win MVP every year than it is just to be a decent player in the NBA fighting to become a starter for your team.

I just explained to you that the Euroleague equivalent of the NBA MVP is the final four award. I know it's hard for you to grasp that, since you know nothing about the Euroleague. The Euroleague final four MVP is the original and main MVP award that dates back to the original current era format. So if you actually even wanted to make a point you should have made this thread about Spanoulis. No surprise here, you know nothing about the Euroleague, obviously.

And it's hilarious how you make it sound like Navarro wins the MVP every year when he has one now. BTW, Scola is a very good NBA player and he has ZERO MVPs in Euroleague. NBA fans are all over the jock of Rudy Fernandez....he also has zero MVPs in Euroleague. NBA is all over the nuts of Rubio, again zero MVPs in Euroleague. You make it sound like just any POS player can win an MVP in Euroleague. What a freaking joke.

But hey, Tony Parker has an NBA finals MVP, Dirk has an NBA regular season MVP, therefore using your logic the NBA sucks and is a joke.

talkbasket wrote:You make it sound like just any POS player can win an MVP in Euroleague.

Saras Jasikevicius won one right? How well did he do playing with NBA players under NBA rules?

PowerElite wrote:

talkbasket wrote:You make it sound like just any POS player can win an MVP in Euroleague.

Saras Jasikevicius won one right? How well did he do playing with NBA players under NBA rules?

And like I said, using your "logic" the NBA sucks because Parker and Dirk won MVPs.

Parker and Dirk NEVER played in the Euroleague during their PRIME. Navarro was just in the NBA last year at age 27 and was a non factor for one of the WORST teams in the entire NBA then went on to be the MVP of the Euroleage. Saras Jasikevicius played in the NBA during his PRIME and looked like garbage after dominating the Euroleague. So no, you are NOT using "my logic." Anthony Parker is a Euroleague MVP winner AFTER being bounced out of the NBA for not being good enough. He returned to the NBA and has become a low level starter for a losing team that favors players with international basketball experience. These former Euroleague MVP's have a tough time coming to the NBA and even being average contributors. You said that Manu won a Euroleague MVP? Well he wasn't even in his basketball PRIME yet, that goes to show you just how much of a low level basketball award that is.

talkbasket wrote:

PowerElite wrote:

talkbasket wrote:You make it sound like just any POS player can win an MVP in Euroleague.

Saras Jasikevicius won one right? How well did he do playing with NBA players under NBA rules?

And like I said, using your "logic" the NBA sucks because Parker and Dirk won MVPs.

Didn't Dirk and Parker enter the NBA at like 19?

PowerElite wrote:Parker and Dirk NEVER played in the Euroleague during their PRIME. Navarro was just in the NBA last year at age 27 and was a non factor for one of the WORST teams in the entire NBA then went on to be the MVP of the Euroleage. Saras Jasikevicius played in the NBA during his PRIME and looked like garbage after dominating the Euroleague. So no, you are NOT using "my logic." Anthony Parker is a Euroleague MVP winner AFTER being bounced out of the NBA for not being good enough. He returned to the NBA and has become a low level starter for a losing team that favors players with international basketball experience. These former Euroleague MVP's have a tough time coming to the NBA and even being average contributors. You said that Manu won a Euroleague MVP? Well he wasn't even in his basketball PRIME yet, that goes to show you just how much of a low level basketball award that is.

Bob McAdoo, Dominique Wilkins, Arvydas Sabonis, Manu Ginobili former final four MVPs...........let me guess they also "suck" .

I don't agree with this award. In my view, McIntyre should have won it. Or Rakocevic or Splitter. If they wanted to give it to a player from a team present in the F4, I'd probably go with Bourousis or Lorbek. Anyway, I wouldn't even consider Navarro to win it.

To the OP: of course the NBA is at a much higher level than the Euroleague; the players are better (especially because there's a group of elite players in the NBA that it's absent in Europe). However, you're grossly underestimating Navarro, in my opinion. He landed in a very bad situation in Memphis, playing for a team and a coach with no idea on how to use him properly and his mind was already back in Barcelona as soon as Gasol was traded. I think the best comparison for Navarro would be Scola: I think Navarro would have been a player of similar level to Scola in the NBA had he landed in a similar situation.

Worm Guts wrote:
Didn't Dirk and Parker enter the NBA at like 19?

Show me any Rudy Fernandez or Luis Scola Euroleague MVPs.

Joana wrote:I don't agree with this award. In my view, McIntyre should have won it. Or Rakocevic or Splitter. If they wanted to give it to a player from a team present in the F4, I'd probably go with Bourousis or Lorbek. Anyway, I wouldn't even consider Navarro to win it.

To the OP: of course the NBA is at a much higher level than the Euroleague; the players are better (especially because there's a group of elite players in the NBA that it's absent in Europe). However, you're grossly underestimating Navarro, in my opinion. He landed in a very bad situation in Memphis, playing for a team and a coach with no idea on how to use him properly and his mind was already back in Barcelona as soon as Gasol was traded. I think the best comparison for Navarro would be Scola: I think Navarro would have been a player of similar level to Scola in the NBA had he landed in a similar situation.

McIntyre and Bourousis both had much better years than Navarro did IMO.

talkbasket wrote:

PowerElite wrote:Parker and Dirk NEVER played in the Euroleague during their PRIME. Navarro was just in the NBA last year at age 27 and was a non factor for one of the WORST teams in the entire NBA then went on to be the MVP of the Euroleage. Saras Jasikevicius played in the NBA during his PRIME and looked like garbage after dominating the Euroleague. So no, you are NOT using "my logic." Anthony Parker is a Euroleague MVP winner AFTER being bounced out of the NBA for not being good enough. He returned to the NBA and has become a low level starter for a losing team that favors players with international basketball experience. These former Euroleague MVP's have a tough time coming to the NBA and even being average contributors. You said that Manu won a Euroleague MVP? Well he wasn't even in his basketball PRIME yet, that goes to show you just how much of a low level basketball award that is.

Bob McAdoo, Dominique Wilkins, Arvydas Sabonis, Manu Ginobili former final four MVPs...........let me guess they also "suck" .

Did Navarro just win the Final Four MVP? No! So this thread isn't about who was the most valuable player out of the last 4 teams playing at the end of the season. With that said, how OLD was McAdoo and Wilkins when they won even the final four MVP? What was their Euro career health like in comparison to their prime years in the NBA?

talkbasket wrote:
Navarro wasn't the final four MVP. With that being said, Navarro is a great player and certainly could be a very good player in the NBA

Sorry to break the news to you, but Navarro had his chance and proved that he's nothing more than a bench player in the NBA, if that. He's not a "very good" player. I'm not even sure if I'd call him decent. He played on a crappy team and still couldn't prove himself when given a chance.

he has had a couple huge games against Team USA.

So what? The Aussie, Shane Heal, had a couple of 20 pt games against Team USA. It's FIBA, not the NBA. Australia's young PG, Mills, outscored Paul and Williams in Beijing. Does that make him a better player or prove that he can play in the NBA? No. FIBA is a heck of a lot different than the NBA.

BTW, the winner of the more important final four MVP was Spanoulis. In case you forgot Spanoulis basically by himself in the 4th quarter beat Paul, Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Howard, Anthony in 2006.

Then he went to the NBA and proved that he can't keep up in a faster paced 82 game season. His lack of quickness and athleticism was exposed. The players you mentioned on that '06 USA team (James, Anthony, Bosh, Paul, Howard, etc.) were all 20-21 at the time. That was the last team from the old USA system of assembling a team a couple weeks before the tourney and winging it. You also forgot to mention that those same players (a bit more mature) beat Greece by 23 pts last year, in a game that wasn't even close. Team USA was up by 20 at halftime. Spanoulis really showed his worth by scoring 14 pts on 4-13 shooting. Your other favorite player, Diamantidis was 0-4 with 7 turnovers. Way to show 'em!

Past final four MVPs include NBA hall of famers Bob McAadoo and Dominique Wilkins.

Dominique was 36 and McAdoo was even older. McAdoo was still dominating the Euroleague at the age of 40. Ouch!

Others include Manu Ginobili, Toni Kukoc, Arvydas Sabonis, Anthony Parker (3 straight years a starter in the NBA), Dejan Bodiroga (considered one of the best players that ever lived that did not play in the NBA), Saras Jasikevicius (on several occasions was the nightmare from hell of Team USA), Papaloukas, maybe the best European point guard ever, Diamantidis (every bit as good as Shane Battier), etc..........

Ginobili is an All-Star and is the best player on that list. However, he's also played more seasons in the NBA than in the Euroleague. Kukoc was good, but nothing special. He never lived up to the hype. I wish Sabonis came to the NBA earlier. Parker is alright. Bodiroga might have been a decent player, but we'll never know. You continue to use past performances against Team USA in FIBA tourneys to determine these players' worth. I could probably gather a long list of European, South American, Brazilian and Australian players who have had strong games against Team USA. It doesn't mean anything and certainly doesn't mean they can play in the NBA. Jasikevicius was another bust. He's just another Euroleague wonder who couldn't compete in the NBA. Diamantidis stinks, plain and simple. He'd barely get off the bench in the NBA. Even comparing him to Battier discredits anything you post. I almost fell out of my chair after reading that comment. As I said before, you can't assess a Euroleague players ability by how well they perform against Team USA in a FIBA tourney.

Just to prove how different the Euroleague choice for MVP is to the NBA choice here are Navvaros stats for the season:

14,6 pts 3,6 assists 1,6 rbs in a little less then 28 mins played

So you see he did not dominate anyone statistically, where as the NBA MVP is the player who has the best STATS the Euroleague MVP is a combination of many other factors, and is a whole different animal.
A concept NBA fans have a real problem grasping.

Check on Navarro´s: he averaged around 10 points in the whole season, but if you take out of the equation the games he played less than 20 minutes he is over 15 ppg which is pretty good for a dawn awful team as the Grizzlies were, being the 3rd (at best) scoring option of the team and Rudy Gay at his side shooting every ball he touched. I still think Navarro would be a nice starter a la Ben Gordon or a good sixth man on a contender (look what Eddie House did the other day against Bulls, and Navarro is way more talented than him).

Many of you guys should not watch Euro games.. there is too few chucking and too much team playing and coaching for your taste...

Stats...

Alyosha12 wrote:Just to prove how different the Euroleague choice for MVP is to the NBA choice here are Navvaros stats for the season:

14,6 pts 3,6 assists 1,6 rbs in a little less then 28 mins played

So you see he did not dominate anyone statistically, where as the NBA MVP is the player who has the best STATS the Euroleague MVP is a combination of many other factors, and is a whole different animal.
A concept NBA fans have a real problem grasping.

These NBA guys in this thread have NEVER EVER in their lives watched a Euroleague game. Of course they lie about that, but it's perfectly obvious they have never seen a Euroleague game in their entire lives.

Alyosha12 wrote:A concept NBA fans have a real problem grasping.

That's true. Another thing many frequently fail to understand is that some guy who's putting up points and boards for a bad team in Europe is not the equivalent to Kevin Durant.

Joana wrote:

Alyosha12 wrote:A concept NBA fans have a real problem grasping.

That's true. Another thing many frequently fail to understand is that some guy who's putting up points and boards for a bad team in Europe is not the equivalent to Kevin Durant.

Yes. You see all the time some American player is on a low level team in a low level league with big stats and NBA fans brag about them "dominating the Euroleague". It's really quite amusing.