ImageImage

LaMelo Ball Thread #2

Moderators: fatlever, Diop, JDR720, BigSlam, yosemiteben

User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 39,231
And1: 38,613
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#1 » by JDR720 » Thu Jan 5, 2023 6:52 am

Read on Twitter

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1987068
Realized the last thread is on 100 pages.
User avatar
KEMBAtheMETEOR
RealGM
Posts: 42,852
And1: 11,083
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Location: 64000 inches high
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#2 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Thu Jan 5, 2023 4:10 pm

only 4552 more assists to catch Muggsy
Tank for Victor Werbenjagermanjensen
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#3 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 5, 2023 5:18 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=wa1YIfyrsSHdcyWYE0dkpg&s=19

Nice breakdown of Melos ridiculous pass to McD vs the Grizzlies

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app
Hornet Mania
Head Coach
Posts: 7,334
And1: 6,323
Joined: Jul 05, 2014
Location: Dornbirn, Austria
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#4 » by Hornet Mania » Thu Jan 5, 2023 5:59 pm

Melo definitely has a gift. I'd love to see a decent coach design a heliocentric offense around him like what Luka enjoys, or something like the SSOL Suns. I bet he could push 12+ assists a game.

We waste so many **** possessions with Plumlee dribbling the ball up the floor while Melo is right there. It drives me nuts.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#5 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 5, 2023 8:39 pm

melo needs to have a lineup of:

melo
2nd 3/D playmaker with size and elite POA defending (maybe Cody or DSJ, if he learns to shoot, neither are good enough long term)
3/D wing (not on roster, emphasis on the shooting)
3/D big with secondary rim protection (not on roster, closest is Thor type, but Thor nowhere near level)
PnR roll man with rim protection (maybe Mark)

Examples of ideal player types - if you turn Melo into a Luka type
Melo
Marcus Smart
OG or Wiggins
Jaren Jackson
Mark Williams (assuming he starts making 3s)
User avatar
KEMBAtheMETEOR
RealGM
Posts: 42,852
And1: 11,083
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Location: 64000 inches high
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#6 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Thu Jan 5, 2023 8:47 pm

^ PJ fits the PF mold you're looking for but probably want to upgrade him down the line.

Still think the dream lineup in your post lacks a real #2 scorer. Maybe Bridges returns and slots into the 3 or 4 spot eventually (because you know Melo will and probably is vouching for it)
Tank for Victor Werbenjagermanjensen
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#7 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 5, 2023 9:20 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:^ PJ fits the PF mold you're looking for but probably want to upgrade him down the line.

Still think the dream lineup in your post lacks a real #2 scorer. Maybe Bridges returns and slots into the 3 or 4 spot eventually (because you know Melo will and probably is vouching for it)


i was trying to get there without adding an obvious legit #2, like a jaylen brown, klay thompson 3/D wing or unicorn 3/PF like Victor. Mainly just the types of realistic player types to target to build out a legit solid playoff team around Melo. argument that both OG and Jackson coul avg 20ppg if given more of a role.

Key points, need 4 very strong defenders, ideally all 4 who can stretch the floor.

i would want a PF who is even better defender than PJ with more rim protection. not an easy ask, i know.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 12,384
And1: 7,129
Joined: Jan 05, 2014
 

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#8 » by Braggins » Thu Jan 5, 2023 11:16 pm

I think the full on heliocentric approach is viable for him and probably the best option on the current team because there is no one else on the team worth giving the ball to. However, I think it would be better to incorporate some Steph Curry off ball elements to his game and play more of a hybrid approach.

His decision making is still inconsistent and hes not a good game manager. He also isn't a strong finisher yet and teams have started to play the pass on his drives, which limits how effective he is at pressuring the rim. The good news is that his outside shooting is apparently insane and he has particular deep range. He also always played more of the shooting guard role when he played with Lonzo, so its not unfamiliar to him. I think an ideal scenario would be having someone (Scoot in our dreams) pressuring the rim while LaMelo runs off a bunch of screens and gets the ball a lot by catching it on the move against an already scrambling defense. I would still see him as the primary scorer and playmaker in that situation (Scoot could surpass him as a scorer, but not likely as playmaker), but the main difference would just be the approach in how you initiated the offense and set LaMelo up.

This way you maximally leverage his 3pt gravity, limit his game management responsibilities and let him focus on making **** happen, and limit his inside finishing issues. I think you could also apply this approach decently with a simple 3&D PG, but it would be better to have someone who could really take advantage of the space LaMelo's off-ball gravity would create, which is why I think the Scoot pairing would be so dynamic. It would be sort of like Garland + Mitchell, but our version of Garland is 6'7" and more dynamic. Anthony Black could also work because hes good at attacking the rim and could cover for LaMelo on defense (think how Livingston fit with Steph).

LaMelo's balance of off-ball movement vs PnR handler shouldn't be skewed as much towards off-ball movement as Steph obviously, but I think the full on heliocentric approach would waste some of his off-ball potential and unique 3pt gravity. His 3pt shooting unlocks a lot of cool team building possibilities and one of the things I really like about him is that he seems particularly easy to fit with other good players offensively.

Spoiler:
Imagine trying to guard a Scoot + Mark PnR with a spread out floor and LaMelo running off a million screens
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 35,396
And1: 16,080
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: Diop Dead Ugly
 

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#9 » by Diop » Thu Jan 5, 2023 11:36 pm

;ab_channel=NBA

he still reminds me of Williams with his play and style. Williams needed old man Hubie Brown to get him play a more serious, successful style of basketball. We need to find that mensch for Ball.
Image
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#10 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 5, 2023 11:39 pm

The offball curry stuff is why I want him paired with another pseudo pg like a smart (or DSJ as a poor mans smart)

Note dsj is 2nd in league in % of drives that result in a pass. He's good at drive kick to melo. Melos off ball shooting is a huge skill that shouldn't be ignored.

He'd also function great next to a great passing big like green or joker (Mason not quite it)

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#11 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 5, 2023 11:40 pm

Diop wrote:;ab_channel=NBA

he still reminds me of Williams with his play and style. Williams needed old man Hubie Brown to get him play a more serious, successful style of basketball. We need to find that mensch for Ball.
I guess that was supposed to be cliff lol

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#12 » by fatlever » Fri Jan 6, 2023 9:27 pm

from Lowe...
5. The randomness of LaMelo Ball's defense
Ball is 21. Ankle injuries compounded by a "Curb Your Enthusiasm" plotline come to life have derailed his season. The Charlotte Hornets are tanking by accident. I wouldn't read much into any worrisome signs.

But Ball's defense is a problem. There are two types of gamblers in the NBA: geniuses operating so many steps ahead, with such deep knowledge of opposing playbooks, their gambles are barely gambles at all. These are card counters: Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Manu Ginobili.

Type 2 is the guy just running around. That's Ball. Some of Ball's wild bets pay out; he's smart, with good anticipation and snappy hands. He can grow into a card counter. But too many are random, attempted from positions of weakness and without much thought behind them. When they fail, there is no way for Charlotte to recover.

Ball makes errors you'd expect from young players, though in larger doses: going under screens against top shooters, falling asleep off the ball. When an emergency requires on-the-fly rotations, Ball is often the one who snaps the string:


Charlotte has allowed 113 points per 100 possessions when Ball rests -- and a grotesque 119 when he plays. That would rank last among teams, and it's not entirely a coincidence.

On offense, Ball is one of only two players attempting at least 20 shots per 36 minutes and fewer than 3.5 free throws, per Basketball-Reference data. (Klay Thompson is the other.) Only 15 guys crack that 20-shot barrier, and it's basically the league's best players -- plus Ball. He's shooting a lot.

Ball will be fine. He's young, big for his position, with vision you can't teach. He's a good shooter. His game is just out of balance right now.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#13 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:07 pm

Read on Twitter
?t=8GVh7BmdQAoA6nM1wWOYgg&s=19

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#14 » by fatlever » Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:36 am

melo's finishing at the rim has been abysmal for far too long. combined with his inability to draw fouls, his offensive ceiling is capped until he figures out one or both.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 53,795
And1: 10,701
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#15 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:14 am

melo has the worst def rating of any player in league playing over 13 mins/game at 121.6
User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 39,231
And1: 38,613
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#16 » by JDR720 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:13 am

Read on Twitter
User avatar
JMAC3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,469
And1: 2,394
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#17 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:47 pm

fatlever wrote:melo needs to have a lineup of:

melo
2nd 3/D playmaker with size and elite POA defending (maybe Cody or DSJ, if he learns to shoot, neither are good enough long term)
3/D wing (not on roster, emphasis on the shooting)
3/D big with secondary rim protection (not on roster, closest is Thor type, but Thor nowhere near level)
PnR roll man with rim protection (maybe Mark)

Examples of ideal player types - if you turn Melo into a Luka type
Melo
Marcus Smart
OG or Wiggins
Jaren Jackson
Mark Williams (assuming he starts making 3s)


I think this lineup is a bit overkill, but yeah I agree we need a wing defender and a rim protector.

Currently we have neither if you are counting how many minutes have been played with Plumlee.

LaMelo
Amen Thompson
3 point specialist
PJ
Mark

Is probably good enough.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 19,114
And1: 12,582
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#18 » by yosemiteben » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:58 am

Read on Twitter


Anybody got an athletic subscription that can speak to what these quotes are like?
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 37,650
And1: 13,884
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#19 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:05 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Read on Twitter


Anybody got an athletic subscription that can speak to what these quotes are like?


Great coach,” Ball said of his relationship with Clifford. “We watch (a lot of) film, he helps me with a lot. Just love that he’s here, I’m glad that he’s here. We love to have him and just try to get better every day. Keep on building.” When you watch Ball — whether it’s on the court with his teammates or in the locker room — there’s something about him that draws others close. Sure, he can be goofy and silly at times but he means well. He’s a diamond in the rough of a year that needs nurturing and development. But regardless of what the Hornets are going through, Ball’s going to remain true to himself— and his team should follow suit. “Same person,” Ball said with a smile. “Just out here hoopin’ for real. Ain’t nothing really changed.”
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 37,650
And1: 13,884
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: LaMelo Ball Thread #2 

Post#20 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:18 am

Per Cleaning the Glass, Charlotte is a plus-5.6 offensively with Ball on the floor, good for the 85th percentile. Over his first two seasons, his impact was in the 60th and 65th percentile, respectively. Averaging a career-high 8.2 assists a game, Ball’s court vision and IQ are what a front office can build around. “I’m up there,” Ball said confidently of his place among the NBA’s best playmakers. It’s easier said than done but Ball has real gravitational pull. He makes those around him better and Clifford knows that better than anyone
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.

Return to Charlotte Hornets