The Kon Knueppel Thread

[Rich4114]

yeah I mean, all season we joked about how wasting this entire past year for Kon Knueppel would have been an unforgiveable outcome, and it was all fun and games cause half the board thought we were a Flagg lock for some reason

now that its a very likely reality are we gonna cope ourselves into acting like maybe it wouldnt be so bad?

I'm guilty of that, but that was before I actually took the time to look past "mid-athletic shooting white guy next to Flagg" and watched his scouting videos and read what experts rave about him. I feel more confident he'll be a star-type player than Tre Johnson because he does so much more than shoot well.

[Chapelchilla]

Kon is not my first pick in our range (VJ is) but if you look at his actual highlight tape from the tourney -

Watch on YouTube

You can see he will be useful in the NBA. His outside shot is usually there. He also gets to the hole and finishes, either scoring or dishing it. He makes quick, decisive and smart passes. He plays HEADS up basketball. Makes plays on the move and connects. He is a good basketball player and will be picked in the top 10 and go on to have a multi year career.

[JMAC3]

Kon is not my first pick in our range (VJ is) but if you look at his actual highlight tape from the tourney -

Watch on YouTube

You can see he will be useful in the NBA. His outside shot is usually there. He also gets to the hole and finishes, either scoring or dishing it. He makes quick, decisive and smart passes. He plays HEADS up basketball. Makes plays on the move and connects. He is a good basketball player and will be picked in the top 10 and go on to have a multi year career.

Give Jeremiah Fears Cooper Flagg and Khaman as teammates and he probably has a lot better looking assist and shooting numbers too. Just because a guy is a good college player doesn't mean they are going to translate to the NBA game.

There is nothing in this highlight that college Grayson Allen couldn't do.

[yosemiteben]

yeah I mean, all season we joked about how wasting this entire past year for Kon Knueppel would have been an unforgiveable outcome, and it was all fun and games cause half the board thought we were a Flagg lock for some reason

now that its a very likely reality are we gonna cope ourselves into acting like maybe it wouldnt be so bad?

Not sure who the "we" you're referring to is, but a bunch of people (myself included) wait until after the season to analyze prospects.

Not coping to look at his resume for the season and be like "**** he was pretty **** good."

[KembaWalker]

He’s a perfectly fine. Hornets draft history is littered with guys that were perfectly fine college players. That cannot be the method of evaluation. There’s a middle ground between Tidjanes and Kneuppels. You can take a metaphorical swing on a guy without the floor being worst player in the NBA. We need guys that at least have a chance of being an all star one day. Luckily one of VJ and Ace will be there

[Diop]

Kon's college stats are eerily close to Australian Legend Andrew Gaze. Smart player, excellent shooter. Gaze is actually 6'7 but could never hang in the NBA because of his athleticism.

thats my concern.

[Diop]

Sam Vecenie via his annual draft guide on Kon:

SUMMARY: Knueppel gets unfairly pigeonholed as just a shooter. The versatility of his game makes him such an attractive prospect. It’s very hard to find players in the NBA who can dribble, pass, shoot, make decisions and defend on top of having solid positional size.

6'5" barefoot ~ 6'6.25" wing ~ 8'5.5" reach ~ 219 lb

for which position? is he a slow shooting guard? or is he a below average height, slower shooting guard?

[Diop]

if/when we do pick him, i will find a way to change my opinion im sure.

[Liver_Pooty]

I’m done getting mad at who we pick after last season. I completely lost my ****.

[JMAC3]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

[Bassman]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

I think Knecht was a hot shooter, who caught fire in games and couldn’t miss. That was his superpower. He is more athletic, albeit not a standout compared to the best in the NBA. His defense, passing and overall game management was not as good as Kon’s. KNipple has that Swiss Army knife feature set that compliments and augments success of a team, verses being a primary impact player.

Knipple is a heck of a shooter, but not in every situation. He has weaknesses that he’s working on. I do think his mindset and drive will help him get better at most every element of the game. He won’t be able to gain hops, but he can improve his quick twitch work to respond a bit faster. Kon moves well, is fluid, always eyes up and looking to pass or prepare to score. His defense is better than some give credit for, but that will be challenged at the next level, so he has to bring it up as well.

[yosemiteben]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

He was a better shooter, passer, and defender at age 19 then Knecht was at age 23.

[Braggins]

Ignoring age between two prospects whose draft ages are 3+ years apart is pretty dubious.

Having said that, I'm still willing to go out on a limb and say I think that draft media is overvaluing Kon relative to how NBA teams value him. If I turn out to be wrong about this I'll have to update my views on what I think teams value in the draft (or maybe I'm overvaluing the rest of the class), but him going top 5 in this class would be pretty unusual based on how I think teams tend to draft with premium picks.

I didn't watch very many games from this class overall, but I did watch a decent amount of Duke games (at least 6-8) and I did not think Kon looked like a guy who should be considered a top pick in a solid class. To be fair, I watched more games earlier in the season and he did look better in the games I caught at the end of the year, but most of the time I watched Duke I barely noticed this guy was on the court. It wasn't necessarily because he wasn't producing, but more because the things he did rarely seemed impressive or stood out. He hit open shots and was generally a good play finisher and made connective passes on offense and he played smart on defense.

I don't think his defense will be functional at all in the league because hes shooting guard size and dreadfully slow/stiff and he didn't really show anything at Duke that would indicate hes going to be an on ball creator on offense in the NBA. He'll be a useful player because his off-ball shooting seems like it could be super elite and hes really smart with a solid overall skill level on offense, but some of the projections I'm seeing for him seem a bit like what I would describe as irrational exuberance. If you want an example of what I'm talking about listen to Sam Venecie talk about him and notice how much of his "analysis" is him saying stuff like "I just love that guy" or "hes a dude" or "thats my guy".

I think many people, myself included, have been guilty at times of underrating his ceiling to some extent, but I still think top 5 is going overboard with him.

[GoBobs]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

1. Free throw %
-Knecht was 77% at Tennessee, Kon was 91% at Duke

2. True Shooting %
-Knecht was .578, Kon was .642

3. Ast/Turnover ratio
-Knecht was close to 1:1 with 1.8 ast/1.7 turnovers, Kon was more like 2:1 with 2.7 ast/1.4 turnovers

[driveandkick]

I know people will absolutely hate this post, but regarding yesterdays report that Peterson wants driven, high character players that are committed to constant improvement (which is why we like VJ and Kon) like that makes sense to me. I truly think that matters and we currently have too many players who just so clearly don’t seem to care to win.

[KembaWalker]

a lot of those "little things" and connector type attributes that people gush over are going to all but disappear in a league where not only is he himself underwhelming in size and athletic ability but also on a team that is undertalented and tactically outmatched in 75%+ of matchups.

the shooting is great. if you draft him expecting literally anything more than shooting ever its gonna be disappointing

[JMAC3]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

He was a better shooter, passer, and defender at age 19 then Knecht was at age 23.

I have already stated Age matters, but also if you are just comparing them for the players we expect them to be as rookies I am not seeing some gigantic edge that favors Kon right now.

Kon: 6-5 without shoes, 6-6.25 wingspan, 219 lbs
Knecht: 6-5.25 without shoes, 6-9 wingspan, 212 lbs

Kon: unknown athletic testing (dodgy)
Knecht: 39 inch max vert

Kon: 14.4 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1 spg, 0.2 bpg, 1.4 tov
Knecht: 21.7 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.8 apg, 0.7 spg, 0.6 bpg, 1.7 tov

Kon: 47.9 FG%, 40.6% three (5.3 att), 91.4% FT (3.3 att) and 64% TS
Knecht: 45.8 FG%, 39.7% three (6.5 att), 77% FT (5.7 att) and 57.8% TS

Kon: 15.7% ast, 12.9% tov, 0.6 blk%, 2% steal%
Knecht: 13.4% ast, 10.6% tov, 2.4 blk%, 1.3% steal%

Kon: 9.5 bpm, 6.5 off, 3.0 def. -- Duke #1 offense adjusted efficiency, Duke #4 defensive adjusted efficiency
Knecht: 9.9 bpm, 7.8 off, 2.1 def-- Tenn #31 offense adjusted efficiency, Tenn #3 defensive adjusted efficiency

Kon: 2/5 Dunks, 77/122 Rim, 20/49 mid, 84/207 three (92.9% assisted)
Knecht: 29/34 Dunks, 122/207 Rim, 49/136 mid, 93/234 three (84.9% assisted)

Biggest differences I see.
1. Kon is more efficient, played on #1 offense. Knecht played on 31st best offense
2. Knecht is bigger, more explosive- 29 Dunks vs 2 Dunks. Better measurables.
3. Knecht was more active at rim, midrange and less of threes were assisted- better self creation.
4. Passing looks pretty similar to me, Assist% slighly favors Kon, TOV% favors Knecht.
5. Both played on elite defenses, that were clearly not bouyed by their play but others around them.

I wasn't a fan of Knecht last year, thought his defense was suspect (1% def epm this year) and his advanced age would hinder him. Even though he tested better than expected in wingspan, vert I trusted what I saw on tape more. I think Kon is going to have a lot of the same issues, even if he is younger he is a worse athlete and less fluid mover than Knecht is right now.

[Liver_Pooty]

A very big reason Kon played on the nations best offense is because of himself.

[yosemiteben]

Outside of age, which I do factor in my player evals for sure. What makes Kon a better player than Dalton Knecht?

He was a better shooter, passer, and defender at age 19 then Knecht was at age 23.

I have already stated Age matters, but also if you are just comparing them for the players we expect them to be as rookies I am not seeing some gigantic edge that favors Kon right now.

You asked what makes him a better player. He is more skilled - a better shooter, better passer, and better defender.

Knecht depended in large on his size and athleticism to thrive. Kon excelled and showed a higher skill level despite limitations to his size and athleticism.

I really don't understand why it's hard to see them as completely different calibers of prospects.

[JMAC3]

He was a better shooter, passer, and defender at age 19 then Knecht was at age 23.

I have already stated Age matters, but also if you are just comparing them for the players we expect them to be as rookies I am not seeing some gigantic edge that favors Kon right now.

You asked what makes him a better player. He is more skilled - a better shooter, better passer, and better defender.

Knecht depended in large on his size and athleticism to thrive. Kon excelled and showed a higher skill level despite limitations to his size and athleticism.

I really don't understand why it's hard to see them as completely different calibers of prospects.

You are saying he is a better shooter, which to me is very debatable-- you stating it as if it as an obvious fact seems disingenuous. Outside of free throw percentage they are very close, Knecht shot better off dribble as a #1 option.

Better passer yeah maybe but it isn't some large discrepancy as mentioned in ast% and tov%.

Defense based on what? Knecht is more athletic and bigger standing reach and wingspan.
Knecht averaged 1.3 Stocks, Kon averaged 1.2 Stocks.
Kon played on 4th best defense, Knecht played on 3rd best defense
Again, you stating it so plainly that Kon is a better defender as if it is obvious... based on what?