I was thinking about this today, and wanted to give Vincent the benefit of the doubt (for whatever reason).
I was attempting to come up with valid, not sarcastic, reasons for starting McInnis (i.e. McMinus McCheerleader).
I have a few. They are not the best, but they are all I could come up with. And my imagination is actually pretty good.
1) Nazr is foul-prone, and this delays his entrance in the game, allowing him to be around in the crucial 4th quarters (overtimes).
2) Felton is being saved from playing point guard the whole game, which might, in theory, wear him out by the 4th quarter. This gives him a breather in the 1st quarter, somewhat. Of course, he is playing shooting guard... most but not all of the time McMinus is out there.
3) He is able to hack the opposing player/use up his fouls, and possibly irritate the other team into playing badly. Hey, it could happen.
4) Um... he allows... GWall... to get mismatches at PF... for a short time, without getting beat up too much...I'm really pushing the envelope here.
Reasons for Starting McInnis
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Reasons for Starting McInnis
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fluffernutter
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Walt Cronkite
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Only theory I can add brings together some of the aspects of what you suggested:
-Our most successful lineup is: Mohammed, Wallace, Richardson, Carroll, Felton. The more likely we are to use this lineup when it matters, the more likely we are to win.
Carroll can play good team defense and spreads the floor on offense and Mohammed is our most well rounded big, but Mohammed can only play for so long (flutternutter 1). However, this lineup is also most effecient when Felton and Carroll haven't take too much wear over the course of the game (flutternutter 2). Jrich guards prototypical 3s better than Wallace does, who we generally have to have guarding the 4 b/c Mohammed and Okafor are both better suited guarding the best post big (extension on fluffernutter 4).
-Our most successful lineup is: Mohammed, Wallace, Richardson, Carroll, Felton. The more likely we are to use this lineup when it matters, the more likely we are to win.
Carroll can play good team defense and spreads the floor on offense and Mohammed is our most well rounded big, but Mohammed can only play for so long (flutternutter 1). However, this lineup is also most effecient when Felton and Carroll haven't take too much wear over the course of the game (flutternutter 2). Jrich guards prototypical 3s better than Wallace does, who we generally have to have guarding the 4 b/c Mohammed and Okafor are both better suited guarding the best post big (extension on fluffernutter 4).
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SteveMorrison15
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I have kept my mouth shut when it comes to McInnis. I've read everyone's thoughts about him.
But I have not seen anything bad about him.
In NBA Live 07, I picked up McInnis and used him for bench play. But when he was in I knew he wasn't an Offensive option. So it forced my other players to shoot the ball. I think with McInnis playing the point, he does just that. The rest of the team knows he isn't known for shooting so they know it's up to them to shoot it. This forces McInnis to set the Offense. But if he is stuck with the ball, he makes that shot at the corner of the free throw line. But he's just a normal shooter, he misses it and makes it. That looks bad to people watching.
Maybe Felton isn't a NBA Point Guard. Or he doesn't know how to be himself and a NBA point guard. What I mean is, he is a Awesome scorer. He scored 30 points his rookie year. He can score. So I'm not saying that Felton will never be a NBA point guard, I'm saying he might need "training wheels" again for being a point guard. Just till he's comfortable, do I think we'll see McInnis in the starting line-up.
McInnis looks bad on defense because he's not known as a stopper. But if I knew Emeka Okafor was defending the paint, i would let players get by me too. But with Emeka playing not so Okafor, McInnis looks bad too and so his defensive assignment looks better.
IMO
But I have not seen anything bad about him.
In NBA Live 07, I picked up McInnis and used him for bench play. But when he was in I knew he wasn't an Offensive option. So it forced my other players to shoot the ball. I think with McInnis playing the point, he does just that. The rest of the team knows he isn't known for shooting so they know it's up to them to shoot it. This forces McInnis to set the Offense. But if he is stuck with the ball, he makes that shot at the corner of the free throw line. But he's just a normal shooter, he misses it and makes it. That looks bad to people watching.
Maybe Felton isn't a NBA Point Guard. Or he doesn't know how to be himself and a NBA point guard. What I mean is, he is a Awesome scorer. He scored 30 points his rookie year. He can score. So I'm not saying that Felton will never be a NBA point guard, I'm saying he might need "training wheels" again for being a point guard. Just till he's comfortable, do I think we'll see McInnis in the starting line-up.
McInnis looks bad on defense because he's not known as a stopper. But if I knew Emeka Okafor was defending the paint, i would let players get by me too. But with Emeka playing not so Okafor, McInnis looks bad too and so his defensive assignment looks better.
IMO
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W_HAMILTON
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If you want another valid reason, McInnis is vocal on the court, unlike most of the players on our team. That's one reason they decided to mic' McInnis (backup PG) for our nationally-televised instead of Felton (starting PG), or any other of our players.
Howard Mass wrote:You do not have the right to not be offended. Just because something is offensive to you does not mean that it breaks the board rules.
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Paydro70
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The thing is, McInnis isn't an NBA player. He has the worst PER at PG in the league. He costs us 4.5 points per 100 possessions, nearly all on the defensive side. He cannot shoot or rebound, has a serious turnover problem, and also commits a lot of fouls. Seriously, I do not know what the redeeming part of his game is, except perhaps that he is unselfish.
I truly, truly, truly do not think he has any redeeming qualities at this stage in his career. The only explanations of his extra 12 minutes per game or so that he gets is that A) they think Ray plays well at SG, B) they like going "small" for some reason, and C) they do not pay enough attention.
I truly, truly, truly do not think he has any redeeming qualities at this stage in his career. The only explanations of his extra 12 minutes per game or so that he gets is that A) they think Ray plays well at SG, B) they like going "small" for some reason, and C) they do not pay enough attention.
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aceunc111
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I'm adding this to support Paydro's claim....I don't believe it's against the rules to post this because it SAYS insider..but I do not have a subscription and I've accessed it twice...if it's against the rules, please tell me and i'll take it off or you can take it off and I apologize.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... ontype%3d2
Go to PG and scroll all the way to the BOTTOM!!
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... ontype%3d2
Go to PG and scroll all the way to the BOTTOM!!
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fatlever
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no mcminus jokes... my serious thoughts on why i think sv is playing mcinnis.
1. jeff, along with DA and now maybe nazr, is probably the team leader.
2. jeff doesnt need shots and will defer to the other four, who do need shots
3. jeff, while being a horrible one on one defender, probably does a good job in the team defense concept... knowing rotations etc...
4. sv honestly views rays offense as a plus and doesnt want to take that away by forcing him into a pure passing role for 48 minutes.
5. playing jeff moves ray, jrich, wallace and okafor into matchups where they have a speed advantage.
thats all i can come up with....
i dont so much care if he starts or comes off the bench... but dudley deserves more minutes. carroll needs to keep getting 20-25 minutes and sv has got to stop playing felton, wallace and jrich 40+ every night.
1. jeff, along with DA and now maybe nazr, is probably the team leader.
2. jeff doesnt need shots and will defer to the other four, who do need shots
3. jeff, while being a horrible one on one defender, probably does a good job in the team defense concept... knowing rotations etc...
4. sv honestly views rays offense as a plus and doesnt want to take that away by forcing him into a pure passing role for 48 minutes.
5. playing jeff moves ray, jrich, wallace and okafor into matchups where they have a speed advantage.
thats all i can come up with....
i dont so much care if he starts or comes off the bench... but dudley deserves more minutes. carroll needs to keep getting 20-25 minutes and sv has got to stop playing felton, wallace and jrich 40+ every night.
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SteveMorrison15
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fatlever wrote:no mcminus jokes... my serious thoughts on why i think sv is playing mcinnis.
1. jeff, along with DA and now maybe nazr, is probably the team leader.
2. jeff doesnt need shots and will defer to the other four, who do need shots
3. jeff, while being a horrible one on one defender, probably does a good job in the team defense concept... knowing rotations etc...
4. sv honestly views rays offense as a plus and doesnt want to take that away by forcing him into a pure passing role for 48 minutes.
5. playing jeff moves ray, jrich, wallace and okafor into matchups where they have a speed advantage.
thats all i can come up with....
i dont so much care if he starts or comes off the bench... but dudley deserves more minutes. carroll needs to keep getting 20-25 minutes and sv has got to stop playing felton, wallace and jrich 40+ every night.
Those 2 points are what I said earlier. And seeing that you think the same way, that's got to be why he starts. There's no other reason why.
But If that's the case, then McInnis is more valuable than we think.
McMinus is more like McHelps_us
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e4Nf6
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ok... deep breath,
Things that Mcinnis does well:
1. As mentioned earlier though a terrible one-on-one defender, he does rotate well both recovering from double teams and in a zone.
2. Doesn't turn the ball over an absurd amount
3. "Unselfish"(Read: has nothing to contribute offensively, and is at least smart enough to not shoot)
4. Hard to say watching most games either on TV or from the upper deck, but, It's possible that his "communication" helps the team as a whole on Defense as far as Switching on picks etc.
Wow, I feel a little dizzy after that...
Things that Mcinnis does well:
1. As mentioned earlier though a terrible one-on-one defender, he does rotate well both recovering from double teams and in a zone.
2. Doesn't turn the ball over an absurd amount
3. "Unselfish"(Read: has nothing to contribute offensively, and is at least smart enough to not shoot)
4. Hard to say watching most games either on TV or from the upper deck, but, It's possible that his "communication" helps the team as a whole on Defense as far as Switching on picks etc.
Wow, I feel a little dizzy after that...
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SamBone
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my serious thoughts on why i think sv is playing mcinnis.
1. jeff, along with DA and now maybe nazr, is probably the team leader.
False
2. jeff doesnt need shots and will defer to the other four, who do need shots
correction, Jeff is smart enough to know he can not shoot
3. jeff, while being a horrible one on one defender, probably does a good job in the team defense concept... knowing rotations etc...
don't think so, but maybe
4. sv honestly views rays offense as a plus and doesnt want to take that away by forcing him into a pure passing role for 48 minutes.
False, if his offense was a plus, why does he only get around 7 shots a game?
5. playing jeff moves ray, jrich, wallace and okafor into matchups where they have a speed advantage.
and size and strength disadvantage
My thinking is McInnis sucks and shouldn't play, let alone start. We are told that Mek does not want to guard 4's so Nazr comes off the bench. I don't have a problem with that as long as Nazr gets about 25 minutes. Hammer has to come off the bench, or we get 0 points off the bench. That is his role and job and as long as he gets his 25 minutes, he will produce and that is fine. The only logical option is start Dud. He did well when he had a chance, but for some reason Coach MORON doesn't use him. Start Dud and give hime 25 minutes a game. Use McInnis as you do Dud. Only about 6 minutes (3 in 1Half and 3 in 2nd Half). also you need to use Hollins for at least 7 min a game and when he is going well, use DA for 10!
1. jeff, along with DA and now maybe nazr, is probably the team leader.
False
2. jeff doesnt need shots and will defer to the other four, who do need shots
correction, Jeff is smart enough to know he can not shoot
3. jeff, while being a horrible one on one defender, probably does a good job in the team defense concept... knowing rotations etc...
don't think so, but maybe
4. sv honestly views rays offense as a plus and doesnt want to take that away by forcing him into a pure passing role for 48 minutes.
False, if his offense was a plus, why does he only get around 7 shots a game?
5. playing jeff moves ray, jrich, wallace and okafor into matchups where they have a speed advantage.
and size and strength disadvantage
My thinking is McInnis sucks and shouldn't play, let alone start. We are told that Mek does not want to guard 4's so Nazr comes off the bench. I don't have a problem with that as long as Nazr gets about 25 minutes. Hammer has to come off the bench, or we get 0 points off the bench. That is his role and job and as long as he gets his 25 minutes, he will produce and that is fine. The only logical option is start Dud. He did well when he had a chance, but for some reason Coach MORON doesn't use him. Start Dud and give hime 25 minutes a game. Use McInnis as you do Dud. Only about 6 minutes (3 in 1Half and 3 in 2nd Half). also you need to use Hollins for at least 7 min a game and when he is going well, use DA for 10!
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Paydro70
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I really can't buy the "McInnis is a smart team defender" angle because our +/- on defense is horrrrrrible with him. If we allow more points when he's on the court than when he's not, what other conclusion can we draw but that he hurts us on D?
He actually helps us very slightly on offense, which could be because he plays with the starters, but also because he does what you guys are suggesting he does on defense (doesn't screw up, orders people around, etc.) on offense. I am extremely skeptical of this point, but it's at least plausible.
He actually helps us very slightly on offense, which could be because he plays with the starters, but also because he does what you guys are suggesting he does on defense (doesn't screw up, orders people around, etc.) on offense. I am extremely skeptical of this point, but it's at least plausible.
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fluffernutter
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Oh, I'm incredibly skeptical, but it is more interesting to figure out some logical reason for McInnis starting than simply assert Vincent is an utter moron.
The other possibility is that McInnis is a better point guard than Felton, in the mind of Vincent. I don't see any evidence of that on the court, in the statistics, by any other measurement.
The "why not start Dudley" question is a really good one. Why not, if you want to hold off on Nazr? Obviously that requires that Felton bring the ball up the court... is that too much to ask? Hm...
The other possibility is that McInnis is a better point guard than Felton, in the mind of Vincent. I don't see any evidence of that on the court, in the statistics, by any other measurement.
The "why not start Dudley" question is a really good one. Why not, if you want to hold off on Nazr? Obviously that requires that Felton bring the ball up the court... is that too much to ask? Hm...
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spectre_
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Thing is even that isn't true. During the last game that wasn't televised Mugsy said on the radio that Touche' has been lobbying to be more involved with the offense...about which Mugsy said "and that can't be a good thing". 
I still think he has some incriminating pictures of Vincent...it's the only possible answer.
I still think he has some incriminating pictures of Vincent...it's the only possible answer.
RaptorJ wrote:they (Bobcats' fans) seem to be some of the least intelligent posters on RealGM from some of the trash they say.
Irony
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DaBassSource
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I can't buy the better point guard excuse thing...because when we need to make plays or bring the ball up in traffic it is not Jeff... I really do not see much value to him....except he's good friends with Ray. Ray seems to look up to him so maybe there is a confidence thing there....but that is stretching it...I can buy that he is the vocal one on the court but please Nazr/MC/Duds start talking...fluffernutter wrote:Oh, I'm incredibly skeptical, but it is more interesting to figure out some logical reason for McInnis starting than simply assert Vincent is an utter moron.
The other possibility is that McInnis is a better point guard than Felton, in the mind of Vincent. I don't see any evidence of that on the court, in the statistics, by any other measurement.
The "why not start Dudley" question is a really good one. Why not, if you want to hold off on Nazr? Obviously that requires that Felton bring the ball up the court... is that too much to ask? Hm...
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Rich4114
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Things I think Mcinnis does well in all seriousness:
#1. handles the ball well, one of our few true ball handlers
#2. can hit those short-mid range floaters consistantly along with the short mid-range jumpers.
But that's about it. We suck when he's on the court and that's what matters most. We were playing our best ball very early on in the season when Felton still had his confidence and we were using a semi-normal starting lineup. I have no problem with some guys playing 35-40mpg if they can handle it, we've got a very young team who should have plenty of stamina, at least the non-big men.
It's disappointing to watch the Bobcats this season because EVERYTHING they told us coming into opening night has been a damn lie. We were supposed to be a run and gun fast paced team led by Felton with Okafor there to command the boards and be involved in offense and be our defensive centerpiece. We've become a sorry ass half court offensive team who relies on J-Rich being hot from outside and Wallace going Dwayne Wade to the hoop.
I guess I've come to the conclusion a while ago that SV does not know how to coach in the NBA and I can't really blame him, he's never done it before. He's got something in his head that he thinks works but clearly doesn't and hopefully next year we can end this horrid experiment and bring in a guy who has had a winning season in the NBA before at least.
#1. handles the ball well, one of our few true ball handlers
#2. can hit those short-mid range floaters consistantly along with the short mid-range jumpers.
But that's about it. We suck when he's on the court and that's what matters most. We were playing our best ball very early on in the season when Felton still had his confidence and we were using a semi-normal starting lineup. I have no problem with some guys playing 35-40mpg if they can handle it, we've got a very young team who should have plenty of stamina, at least the non-big men.
It's disappointing to watch the Bobcats this season because EVERYTHING they told us coming into opening night has been a damn lie. We were supposed to be a run and gun fast paced team led by Felton with Okafor there to command the boards and be involved in offense and be our defensive centerpiece. We've become a sorry ass half court offensive team who relies on J-Rich being hot from outside and Wallace going Dwayne Wade to the hoop.
I guess I've come to the conclusion a while ago that SV does not know how to coach in the NBA and I can't really blame him, he's never done it before. He's got something in his head that he thinks works but clearly doesn't and hopefully next year we can end this horrid experiment and bring in a guy who has had a winning season in the NBA before at least.