how should we judge felton for the rest of the season?

[W_HAMILTON]

I don't blame him on our defense, I blame him when our offense sucks.

And I already said how he should be judged. Whether or not he makes his team mates / team better, and whether or not he performs at a level that any run-of-the-mill PG couldn't do if they were given the same sort of role that Felton has been given in our offense.

[DaBassSource]

You give almost anyone 43 minutes, let them do far and away the majority of the ball-handling and decision-making, and let them shoot 17 times ...
?

Oh that's how CP3 gets his numbers...I understand now...

You can't just do those things for almost anyone...If you did that for McMinus you would look like a fool.

He needs to be judged by whether or not he makes his team and his team mates better, and more importantly, whether or not he can produce at a higher level than any other run-of-the-mill PG would be able to if they were placed on this team and given the same sort of prominent role.
?

How exactly do you quantify this? Your saying you can't use his stats and unless teammates are taking advantage of the positions they are in then you basically can't use their stats..and considering our schedule, and no Crash, I doubt we win many more games( at least I hope we don't ...got to get the BEAST). So you can't use that...So how will YOU know if he is making teammates better...? I guess against all odds if we won 5 - 10 of our remaining games I would think he had to make someone better. Because I'm not sure I see us winning that many...

[fluffernutter]

I really would not take W_HAMILTON very seriously on this point guard issue.

Applying W_HAMILTON's standards to New Jersey this year, Jason Kidd would fail in significant ways: didn't make the team better (underperforming), didn't make teammates better (most having sub-par years), etc.

Ergo, Kidd is a bad point guard.

Not that the situation in NJ was bad, or the coaching was bad, or the mix of personnel was bad, or anything else remotely complicated.

Kidd failed the exacting, binary W_HAMILTON standards, and thus is a bad PG.

Kidd = Bad.

Bad PG's should be sat or assume backup roles.

So either W_HAMILTON is right and Kidd is a bad point guard, or W_HAMILTON is wrong and Kidd is a good point guard but was not working out in NJ for any number of reasons and (somehow) NJ got a huge amount back for him.

Call me crazy, but I'm not willing to call the current top5 HOF point guard Kidd trash.

That's why I think it's entirely safe to ignore W_HAMILTON on this point. He's in a special place, where nothing can reach him.

[W_HAMILTON]

-= original quote snipped =-
Oh that's how CP3 gets his numbers...I understand now...

You can't just do those things for almost anyone...If you did that for McMinus you would look like a fool.

Uh, Chris Paul averages the same amount of minutes as Felton. And if you put Chris Paul on this team, and like in the Boston game gave him 43 minutes, let him do the majority of the ball-handling and play-making, and let him shoot 17 times, he would have probably given you close to 30 points, 15 assists, and a win.

And actually, you give Jeff McInnis the same role, and he probably gets you at least 10-12 points and 8 assists. And that's for a guy that many said is the worst PG in the league. He never came close to shooting 17 times, and the one time he played more than 41 minutes, he got 7 assists.

How exactly do you quantify this?

How about being given the best offensive team we've had in our franchise history, and him leading them to a disappointing record during an easy part of the schedule? How about having them as one of the worst offenses in the league during that time? How about being "gifted" the starting PG position again recently during that road trip, and his effect on the team was virtually unnoticeable as to when the awful Jeff McInnis was our starting PG?

Applying W_HAMILTON's standards to New Jersey this year, Jason Kidd would fail in significant ways: didn't make the team better (underperforming), didn't make teammates better (most having sub-par years), etc.

Ergo, Kidd is a bad point guard.

Oh, fluffy. I left this alone for a reason, but since you brought it back up thinking you made a point, I'll proceed to explain to you the obvious.

You realize NJ gave up Kidd, right?

I don't know what his situation was this year, nor do I care. Did he become disgruntled after being with them so long? Is he "over-the-hill?" Is Carter? I don't know, and again, I don't care really. I know he's been a helluva PG for most of his career, and I know a helluva lot of PGs that wouldn't have been able to take the teams to the Finals that he did. So, at worst, he can rest on his laurels, which is something Felton can't do because he's always disappointed.

[BigSlam]

How did I know that this thread would spiral out of control?

It would be nice to have a thread on this board that doesn't utimately break down in the same way as all of the others relating to this topic do over and over again.

[W_HAMILTON]

It would be nice to have a thread on this board that doesn't utimately break down in the same way as all of the others relating to this topic do over and over again.

As long as you have the same old Felton Fanatics unable to accept that he's had a disappointing and underwhelming career, and feel the need to make every excuse possible and blame everyone in the world when he continues to disappoint, this will keep happening.

The only way it will change is for him to ever become as good as a few of the delusional ones think, in which case I would stop criticizing him, or he leaves this team, because there's no circumstances where the delusional ones would ever accept him as a disappointment as long as he's on this team. It will always be the coach's fault, or the player's fault, or injuries, or (insert your favorite excuse here).

[Rich4114]

I think what he's asking is that we not talk about this same old topic in every single thread.

[W_HAMILTON]

Then I guess he's asking you and your crew to stop blaming everyone in the world when Felton disappoints, and accept him for what he is.

[BigSlam]

-= original quote snipped =-
As long as you have the same old Felton Fanatics unable to accept that he's had a disappointing and underwhelming career, and feel the need to make every excuse possible and blame everyone in the world when he continues to disappoint, this will keep happening.

I know why you do it, and in a way, you have a point. But it just gets real old.

I think the line is pretty clear and most everyone has chosen their sides. Because of that, I just don't see the need to continually thrash it out without presenting or covering anything new.

[DaBassSource]

[quote="W_HAMILTON"][/quote]You might want to look up the word "quantify"...that is all I asked....How do you quantify "making teammates better"

[W_HAMILTON]

It's pretty damn easy, and I explained it already.

It's everything.

You think he makes his team mates better.

You think we are better with him as our PG.

If that's the case, we should win more. We should score more. We should shoot better. Players should shoot better, and perform better offensively.

You can "quantify" all of these things. Now, you might not want to because you already pre-made excuses for him, ie, with the injuries, and the tougher schedule.

But too damn bad.

He had it set up perfectly for him to succeed at the start of the season; our main guys were healthy, we had an easy schedule, and we were even in the "honeymoon" phase. And he proceeded to get us off to a disappointing start and had us as one of the worst offensive teams in the league.

[zoned unc]

as usual Hamilton drags out his make his teammates better argument without any effing clue as to what it means.

[fatlever]

this is not a thread to discuss the past. this is not a thread to discuss brevin knight or jeff mcinnis. this is not a thread to discuss chris paul. this is not a thread to discuss sam's coaching (or lack of).

this is a thread to talk about what specific thigs are we looking for from felton for the next two months, specific things to give us the best idea of whether or not we should continue to build this team around felton at the point or find another point in the summer.

again, this thread is to discuss what we are looking for from felton for the remainder of this season. period. if you cant stay on topic, dont post in this thread. find one of the 1000 other felton threads to discuss why you think he has failed in the past.

[fatlever]

since i see rich started the "felt-o-meter" thread, i am going to lock this one. it served its purpose, which was a poll. no need to have two similar threads open.