I don't get this... I didn't say anything about winning. Winning is the result of team talent and coaching, it should never reflect more than incidentally on an individual player's value. The Nuggets have an amazing roster, and in any other year would be an easy playoff team, but this is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Melo gets to play with at least one, usually two very good passers on the floor at all times, in a wide-open system that has the fastest pace in the NBA (which he is very well suited for) and with at least one other elite offensive talent to draw attention. His situation is at LEAST as favorable as Kobe and Paul, and is much better than LeBron's.
Whether he's in a top "tier" or not depends on how you draw the tiers. I think of the top "tier" as being 10-12 players deep, and consisting only of true superstars, and there's no way that Melo could be contained in that small a group, while Kobe, LeBron, and Paul are locks. If your top "tier" is 25 deep, maybe Melo fits in.
I don't see why JRich's performance for most of this year isn't "approaching" Melo. Melo is a better rebounder, but they're not far apart at all in terms of scoring ability, plus he passes more, turns the ball over less, and gets fewer possessions. That's not to say he's Melo's equal, just that having him AND Crash is really a lot better than just one Melo.
2 for 2 Swap
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Walt Cronkite
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Melo compliments Okafor's offensive liabilities but doesn't fill one of our weaknesses (an inability to guard any athletic 4s). Wallace can do that against at least half of those guys and it's not a 1st rounder, it's Jason Richardson.
If the proposed trade was Melo for Wallace and THIS year's 1st, things would be entirely different.
If the proposed trade was Melo for Wallace and THIS year's 1st, things would be entirely different.
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e4Nf6
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If the only time you saw Kobe, Lebron and Melo Play was on the olympic team you would think Melo was the best one.....
interesting discussion on the merits of Jr here:
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=12
I get the impression that most Denver posters think alot of JR and blame George Karl for not playing him more.....
interesting discussion on the merits of Jr here:
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php? ... c&start=12
I get the impression that most Denver posters think alot of JR and blame George Karl for not playing him more.....
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W_HAMILTON
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IggyTheBEaST wrote:Personally I think its a smart move for the bobcats, its pretty much gerald and your 1st last year to upgrade to melo, which seems like a no brainer to me.
Yes, but the Richardson trade was a damn good deal for us. You can't go back in time and do deals like that.
That's like saying, the Lakers should trade us Kobe for Wallace, because they're basically just giving up a late, late lottery pick for Gerald Wallace.
It don't work that way.
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DaBassSource
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Rich4114
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W_HAMILTON wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yes, but the Richardson trade was a damn good deal for us. You can't go back in time and do deals like that.
That's like saying, the Lakers should trade us Kobe for Wallace, because they're basically just giving up a late, late lottery pick for Gerald Wallace.
It don't work that way.
lol, well played sir
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BeesWax
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If we did this trade our starting lineup could be:
Felton
Smith
Melo
Randolph - 1st round pick
EO50
With Dude, Hammer, May, Morrison and Nazr off the bench. We have some size blocking ability and if Dude ends up as good as some of you think solid depth at every position. We would need another PG somewhere but it is a good starting point.
Felton
Smith
Melo
Randolph - 1st round pick
EO50
With Dude, Hammer, May, Morrison and Nazr off the bench. We have some size blocking ability and if Dude ends up as good as some of you think solid depth at every position. We would need another PG somewhere but it is a good starting point.
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Walt Cronkite
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We're already at a good starting point. Wallace and Richardson's play have not been the problem for the Bobcat's struggles.
Felton
Richardson
Wallace
Dudley
Okafor
is probably a more successful lineup than the one you just listed because Randolph won't be ready to play meaningful playoff type minutes for at least 2 seasons and there is no way you can say for certain that Smith will ever be good enough to offset how much better Melo is than Wallace (at scoring...goes without saying that it only addresses one of our weaknesses and probably makes the other glaring ones more of a liability...)
Felton
Richardson
Wallace
Dudley
Okafor
is probably a more successful lineup than the one you just listed because Randolph won't be ready to play meaningful playoff type minutes for at least 2 seasons and there is no way you can say for certain that Smith will ever be good enough to offset how much better Melo is than Wallace (at scoring...goes without saying that it only addresses one of our weaknesses and probably makes the other glaring ones more of a liability...)
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BeesWax
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I think that it is a better lineup. I think offensively it would be an upgrade. Defensively it is at least comparable. You have to think that JR at the two is close to Dude at the 4. I think that Randolph needs to be the pick because he is the best PF behind Beasley. I think that he would help EO with blocks and could play as much as any other draftee.
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Paydro70
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...why are we talking about lineups? This is literally a position-for-position swap, an SG and an SF for an SG and an SF. The only question is whether JRich (currently an average player, with potential to be better) and Melo (star of debatable proportions) is worth two very good players. Hell, JR is basically a poor man's JRich, and Melo and Wallace are both guys who like to play inside and board well.
Randolph could be our pick either way, I don't see Melo changing much there.
Randolph could be our pick either way, I don't see Melo changing much there.
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IggyTheBEaST
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W_HAMILTON wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yes, but the Richardson trade was a damn good deal for us. You can't go back in time and do deals like that.
That's like saying, the Lakers should trade us Kobe for Wallace, because they're basically just giving up a late, late lottery pick for Gerald Wallace.
It don't work that way.
your right, its like saying miller and jason smith has allen iverson value, I see what your saying, I was wrong to put it in those terms. But my conclusion is the same, I would definitely do this deal for the bobcats. Jr smith has a similar skillset to jrich and I think his involvment in the trade is being overlooked.
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ITBs Dream Team:
Iverson/Iggy/Lebron/Amare/Dwight
I <3 Thaddeous
ITBs Dream Team:
Iverson/Iggy/Lebron/Amare/Dwight
I <3 Thaddeous
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Walt Cronkite
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