Bobcats players to do list

[fluffernutter]

-= original quote snipped =-



Then quit singling him out.

He gets some blame, as does everyone for their individual performances.

But when it comes to the team, he is not the main reason we sucked, or even one of the top two.

We had absolutely no leadership and no direction on this team for most of the year, we gutted the two positions where we had gotten leadership from before, and we got questionable production from both of those spots most of this season -- coaching and PG -- and of course those are the two most important positions on THIS team that we've assembled.

Those two deserve the most blame for why we sucked this year, and after that, you have most of the players sharing equally in blame for their individual production.

I might as well leave the room.

You are arguing not with a straw man, for that exists (at least in theory).

You are arguing here with the phantom of a ghost. Because I don't believe in and never stated many of the things you find objectionable.

Saying that GWall was disappointing is not singling him out. It's saying he was disappointing. Other players might or might not also be disappointing. There is no inference to be made there. I seem to remember your being "disappointed" with Felton on occasion (I think??) without your also mentioning your disappointment with GWall or Carroll.

And I never claimed GWall was the top reason we sucked, nor the 2nd top reason. If nothing else, he didn't play enough. I think he was about reason # 10, if you want to know my opinion (as if you actually wanted to know my opinion).

Nor did I somehow state or imply that my disappointment in GWall was greater than my disappointment in Felton and/or Vincent and/or anything else.

Should I leave the room now for you to continue this debate in my absence? It doesn't seem to matter what I write, after all.

[W_HAMILTON]

You don't see me constantly mentioning Wallace and Carroll, because when I do mention that they had bad years, no one turns it into a 30-page thread trying to defend them sucking. Add in the fact that I am pretty sure Carroll, Wallace, Okafor, etc didn't all start to suck over the offseason, and more than likely it was the situation they found themselves in which caused the disappointing production, and of course I'm not going to criticize them constantly. I'm going to criticize what I believe the real problems are.

Our biggest problems this year, #1 or #2, whichever you prefer:

1/2 = Coaching
1/2 = PG play

Everything else, including individual performances, follows that.

The type of individual performances you are complaining about, even if they didn't perform that way, that would not change the fact that #1 and #2 were problems.

If Wallace didn't play like "Superman," or didn't go "one-on-one" so much, or whatever you are criticizing him for -- it doesn't make Vincent a good coach. It doesn't make McInnis a good PG. It doesn't make Boykins a good PG. It doesn't make Felton turn in more consistent, less questionable efforts at PG.

[fluffernutter]

You don't see me constantly mentioning Wallace and Carroll, because when I do mention that they had bad years, no one turns it into a 30-page thread trying to defend them sucking. Add in the fact that I am pretty sure Carroll, Wallace, Okafor, etc didn't all start to suck over the offseason, and more than likely it was the situation they found themselves in which caused the disappointing production, and of course I'm not going to criticize them constantly. I'm going to criticize what I believe the real problems are.

Our biggest problems this year, #1 or #2, whichever you prefer:

1/2 = Coaching
1/2 = PG play

Everything else, including individual performances, follows that.

The type of individual performances you are complaining about, even if they didn't perform that way, that would not change the fact that #1 and #2 were problems.

If Wallace didn't play like "Superman," or didn't go "one-on-one" so much, or whatever you are criticizing him for -- it doesn't make Vincent a good coach. It doesn't make McInnis a good PG. It doesn't make Boykins a good PG. It doesn't make Felton turn in more consistent, less questionable efforts at PG.

You know what's funny here?

You seem to think I have some hidden agenda.

I really don't.

I think it's fine to mention, in passing, without great detail or elaboration, that a player on the team (GWall) had a bad year (not sucked - I actually said he was disappointing). It was obvious to everyone that GWall struggled this year. And I mentioned it. It's an area for concern, as is his health.

Because I mentioned GWall's disappointing season does not imply anything about where I think "our real problems lie."

I'm not saying that had GWall played much better, there would still not be major problems with the team.

I don't think if GWall played better, it would make Vincent look that much better, or Felton look that much better.

I'm not saying any of this.

I can't imagine why you think I have a huge hidden iceberg under what was a common-sensical observation.

I mean, it's interesting that you think this way (sort of), but it's nothing to do with me.

And finally, asserting that my concern with a player not developing, and possibly even regressing some, in ONE post, hardly constitutes "complaining." On this board, complaining is what happens when you beat something into the ground at least 50 times. In the same week. That's what we call complaining.

[W_HAMILTON]

You jumped back into the argument. I was responding to someone else, and you felt the need to get defensive about me saying what some people have been implying about Wallace. Just as in the other thread, where you bring up those Okafor stats, then say "hey, I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just wondering what's going on guys!"

You sure do seem to be a bit defensive when it comes to how other people view you. I don't know why you would need to post those disclaimers that you really are unbiased, and defend things that have been said and implied, if you say you yourself never said them, or implied them.

Paranoid?

Or is it a bit of self-guilt?

It can't be self-guilt, because you're a neutral observer with no hidden agenda.

I know this, because you said so.

[fluffernutter]

You jumped back into the argument. I was responding to someone else, and you felt the need to get defensive about me saying what some people have been implying about Wallace. Just as in the other thread, where you bring up those Okafor stats, then say "hey, I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just wondering what's going on guys!"

You sure do seem to be a bit defensive when it comes to how other people view you. I don't know why you would need to post those disclaimers that you really are unbiased, and defend things that have been said and implied, if you say you yourself never said them, or implied them.

Paranoid?

Or is it a bit of self-guilt?

It can't be self-guilt, because you're a neutral observer with no hidden agenda.

I know this, because you said so.

[floppymoose]

I don't think the Bobcats will be much faster, if at all. Larry Brown likes a deliberate tempo where he can control the game with defensive pressure and rebounding. OTOH this Bobcats lineup may have more athleticism than he's had in the past, so I'm not sure.

The rules have changed.

No really, literally, the nba rules have changed. I think you are giving away wins now if you don't play a little faster.