A Statistical Analysis of the New Players

[Paydro70]

Well, as resident board robot, I felt it was my duty to break this one down in every painful detail. This is not going to be a pretty picture, so if you are squeamish, I would look away.

Player #1: Boris Diaw
Offense
Diaw used about 16% of the Suns' possessions through his time there, including one peak year of 17.5%. This is a fairly low number; for comparison's sake, his offensive "load" is about equivalent to Matt Carroll's when he's on the court. Not a total drifter like a Tyson Chandler, but not exactly Chris Paul either.
Diaw distributes his possessions unusually: about 15-20% turnovers, about 20% assists, and therefore 60+% shooting. His turnover rate is exceptionally bad, this year ranking him in the top 40 of turnover rate (out of 319), #11 among PFs. That said, he is 3rd in the league in assist rate among PFs, and many of his turnovers are of the "bad pass" variety.
Diaw is, typically, an efficient scorer. He is a .500 shooter on his career, .567 this season, and while he is not exactly a "shooter," he does well from the free throw line for a power forward (usually about 70%). As a result, his TS% of .600 this season ranks him 9th among power forwards. Typically he's more like a .570 TS% guy, but that would still be top-20 for this season.

Diaw shoots about 43% jump shots, on which he is a terrible .375 on 2pters (a good number from 3, but he takes very few of them). In close, however, he shoots 6th best in the NBA. He has four dunks on the season, and is fouled on an incredibly tiny 6% of his shots.

Unfortunately, Diaw is an unambiguously poor rebounder. Currently ranking 66th out of 71 PFs, Diaw's 9.5% rebound rate is actually an improvement over the previous two seasons. Back in his "good" year, he was a 10.8% rebounder, which would put him all the way up to .... #59, just ahead of Al Harrington and behind Walter Herrmann. A quick list of guards currently out-rebounding Diaw: Morris Peterson, Mike Miller, Andre Iguodala, Jason Kidd, Corey Brewer, Paul Pierce... and JR Smith and Chris Paul are roughly equal. His incompetence is roughly equal on the offensive and defensive glass.

Put together, Diaw's penchant for turnovers, small role in the offense, and poor rebounding combine to make him a 13.4 PER player, which again is higher than his previous two seasons. That currently puts him at 48th among PFs, just behind Yi Jianlian and Joe Smith, just ahead of Solomon Jones.

In terms of +/-, he hurts the Suns on offense by 1 point per 100 possessions, which is unsurprising since he is often on the court when Amare Stoudemire is not. Adjusted +/- numbers, however, also rank Diaw quite low, with guys like Ricky Davis, Martell Webster, and Raja Bell (we'll get to that one).

Defense
The signs suggest that Diaw is at least an okay defensive player. In addition to anecdotal incidents like guarding Tony Parker in the playoffs, Diaw helps the Suns' defense to the tune of 3.9 points per 100 possessions. This was also true last year, though two years ago (when he was being compared to Shawn Marion) it was not the case. Adjusted +/- numbers likewise rank Diaw highly (36th in the NBA), slightly ahead of guys like Shane Battier and Dwight Howard. His DRTG, usually around 109, and Defensive Win Shares are not very good, but he may be dragged down by his deficient teammates in these areas.

Statistically, Diaw has offered roughly the same amount of blocks and steals for the past 3 seasons, ranking about 35th among PFs in both categories per/48. In blocks that puts him equal to some small forwardy guys like Marvin Williams and Rashard Lewis with about .8 per 48 minutes. In steals, he gets .5 per 48, putting him with guys like Darko and, again, Hakim Warrick. He is not especially foul prone.

A quick note: Diaw set career highs in virtually everything in that magical year of 05-06: assist rate, usage rate, rebound rate, turnover rate (meaning fewer TOs), ORTG, DRTG, Win Shares, minutes, points, steals, blocks, and PER. He was that season a 17.5 PER player, which puts him around #19 among PFs, roughly equal with guys like Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiell. THAT guy is pretty good... but I want to emphasize that he has gone unseen for three years.

Player #2: Raja Bell
Offense
Raja Bell once used about 17% of the Suns' possessions, but has subsequently dropped to only 14% in the last two seasons. He is currently 5th-lowest among shooting guards with guys like Quinton Ross and Devean George.
He gets assists on 12.5% of his possessions, and another 7.5% are turnovers. The latter is very low, 11th of 73. The former is middle of the road.
Bell does tend to make the shots he takes; he's a 43% shooter, but since over half of them are 3s, on which he's truly fantastic, his eFG% is a respectable 55%. He almost never gets to the FT line, though he's not so great at FTs for such a good shooter.... meaning his TS% is 56.9%. Still, that makes him #15 among shooting guards.
Bell is, of course, exclusively a jump shooter, taking an amazingly low 9% inside shots, which he doesn't do such a great job on anyway.

Bell is 49th among 73 SGs in rebound rate, nothing to write home about.... thanks to that and his basically non-existent offensive game, Bell earns a pitiful 9.2 PER, 57th of 73 SGs, which is below replacement-level.
However, he does offer the Suns an incredible 6.6 points per 100 possessions on offense. In large part this is a reflection of how badly Goran Dragic hurts the team, but he has also out-performed Barbosa in +/- for two years. I might pin that on Barbosa's tendency to play without Steve Nash, however. In adjusted +/-, Bell is below-average on offense, with the Ricky Davises and Gordon Giriceks of the world.

Defense
As we all know, Bell has a reputation as an excellent defender. The evidence is a little mixed. His DRTGs have never been very good, but I again think that might be an artifact of the Suns. However, this year he's actually hurting the Suns defense a little: 0.2 pts/100 possessions. Considering he's up against Dragic and Barbosa, it certainly doesn't bode well. Last year, however, he was a positive, backed up by his adjusted +/- for that year, which is quite good, even better than Diaw's.

As far as steals, he's really quite poor, only registering 34th of 42 qualified SGs with 0.59 per 48, and his fouls are neither particularly low or high (17th of 44).

So... it's hard to say right now how good of a defender Bell is this season, but there seems to be a conventional narrative now that he has markedly declined on that side of the ball.

[Paydro70]

I'll break down Singletary sometime later here.

[Walt Cronkite]

Great work

[667Club]

You can't translate statistics from two teams as different as the bobcats and the suns. These two players will play two very different roles on the bobcats. You will be surprised at how much better you will be with them. That's at least 5-10 more wins good than with Jrich. But if everyone click, i actually expect you to have a chance at the #8 spot. Albeit it's still a small chance.

First they will be efficient but also they will make other players better. Why ? because they both have a higher IQ.

If you want some more meaningful stats, look for example at Diaw's Statistics when he was a bigger part of the team. 05-06 Playoffs. Playoffs, that's where good players up their game and when bad players are revealed. Look at someone like Ginobilli and compare his season and playoff numbers for example. And if you wonder why Diaw was the MIP that year. Well his best position is High Post PF. In Atlanta he played Guard with a bunch of scrubs, a poor coach and no concept of a team at all. In Phoenix after his first year, he was behind Stoudemire and they play the same position (PF from the high post).

05-06 Diaw playoff stats:

20 games, 20 started.
Minutes per game: 40

PPG: 18,7
APG: 5,2
RPG: 6,7

FG: 53 %
3PT: 43% meaningless (3-7)
FT: 76 % (67-88)

STL: 0,9
BPG: 1
TO: 2,75

Is Diaw any different now ? No he isn't. He will put up the same numbers if needed (adjusted because of the lower pace but he could have more touch because you still had Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, and Barbosa outside of Raja of course). And the Bobcats would probably need it.

Stop worrying.

Maybe Raja lost a step but look at his playoff numbers for godsake: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell ... stats.html. He is tough; he is a great 3 point shooter and very efficient player. And they play well together, you will see number of Raja's 3 assisted by Diaw.

And btw blocks or steal won't ever tell you if someone is a good Defender or else Iverson and Stoudemire are good defenders.

[b-ball forever]

Raja's numbers were down this year cuz he was frustrated with the way Porter was running the offense. He's still a good defender when he wants to be, he always steps it up in big games, LB will love him, and he'll be a good fit in his defensive minded system.


Diaw could easily go back to putting up solid numbers with a bigger role, even if he's more of a guy that does all the little things like boxing out, setting screens and picks, play good defense, keep the offense flowing then stuff the stat sheet.

You don't even have to go back to the 05-06 season to see how good he can play when he gets his touches. In THIS YEAR'S PLAYOFFS series aginst the Spurs, Diaw put up 14.6 pts on 55 FG%/5.6 rebs/4.6 assists in 5 games.
And that doesn't tell the whole story cuz D'Antoni only put him in the starting lineup and gave him an important role on the team for the last 2 games, and assigned him to guard Tony Parker.

In the first 3 games Parker averaged 33 points on near 60 FG%, Diaw was in his role player off the bench role, and the Spurs won all 3 games.

For the last 2 games D'Antoni decides to change his game plan, puts Diaw in the starting lineup, runs the offense thru him, and puts him on Tony Parker...
Result? > The Suns go 1-1 the rest of the way, Parker only averages 24 pts on 42 FG% with Boris defending him, and Diaw averages 21/9/8 with 1.5 blks and on 58 FG%!


Now that's obviously a small sample size, and Diaw does have his issues and a big contract, but those are basically the only games he's had premier role on the team ever since Amare came back from injury.

He's a guy like Odom. Needs to get his touches and dominate the high post to be effective. Look at how Odom's numbers skydived now that Bynum came back from injury and Gasol is their primary high-post guy... that doesn't mean Odom sucks, he's just not able to get his touches anymore.

Raja and Boris are also both very good locker room guys. They were good friends with everybody else on the team, Nash was real pissed to lose both of them.
Good luck with both of those guys, and Singletary too.

[spectre_]

Raja's numbers were down this year cuz he was frustrated with the way Porter was running the offense. He's still a good defender when he wants to be, he always steps it up in big games, LB will love him, and he'll be a good fit in his defensive minded system.

I was wondering if that could possibly be the case. Perimeter D isn't all about speed, lot of it's smarts, positioning and grit. He was 2nd team all defense last year.

[b-ball forever]

It's not about his defense being worse due to a direct defensive system change cause and effect, it's about how Porter completely changed the offensive system of the Suns, didn't let the Suns run up on fast breaks early on, made Shaq the focal point of the offense, went away from the Amare/Nash pick n roll, and completely killed the spacing on the court... which led to Raja/Nash/Amare all going to media saying how they didn't think that was the best system for the players we have, and Raja in particular not motivated to play hard anymore.

If LB can keep him motivated and comunicate with his players more then Porter has been doing, he'll be great and you guys will love his tough play.

[spectre_]

Is he a strong enough leader to be captain of the team? I think I read somewhere that he leads more by "his actions on the court".

I've always liked Bell. A strong defensive attitude can change a game if it's against a team's better/best player, and I'm hoping he can bring that.

I think I remember Slam once saying how he "hated Bell" but he'd love him if he were on his team!

[b-ball forever]

He was actually our defensive leader during the D'Antoni era, while Nash was the offensive leader.

Marion was a better defender, but Raja was the one placing his players on the defensive end.
He's very vocal too, both on the court and on the bench, so yeah, he could make a good co-captain.

[spectre_]

If we deal Crash and eventually Felton I think the role would be his. Even if we don't I can see him quickly taking Swish's leadership role (didn't we have 3 co captains?).

Thanks b-ball forever.

[BigSlam]

Looking at all these numbers makes me think that rather than playing sport and chasing skirt during my school years, maybe I should have paid more attention in math.

Quality stuff by everyone.

And yes Spectre, you are right. Bell is a guy I have always had a pretty serious dislike for. I've never liked his tactics or style. But now he's with us, I'll probably love it and the swagger than he'll bring.

[spectre_]

Looking at all these numbers makes me think that rather than playing sport and chasing skirt during my school years, maybe I should have paid more attention in math.

Nah!

[rsavaj]

Looking at all these numbers makes me think that rather than playing sport and chasing skirt during my school years, maybe I should have paid more attention in math.

Quality stuff by everyone.

And yes Spectre, you are right. Bell is a guy I have always had a pretty serious dislike for. I've never liked his tactics or style. But now he's with us, I'll probably love it and the swagger than he'll bring.

I hope you'll grow to love him. From what I'm hearing, J-Rich was fiery, and he left it all on the court. Raja is precisely in the same mold. He was our emotional leader; he was the heart of our team. There's a reason Nash looked so lifeless out there against LA after he learned Raja was traded...

[Paydro70]

You can't translate statistics from two teams as different as the bobcats and the suns. These two players will play two very different roles on the bobcats. You will be surprised at how much better you will be with them. That's at least 5-10 more wins good than with Jrich. But if everyone click, i actually expect you to have a chance at the #8 spot. Albeit it's still a small chance.

On the contrary, you very much can. Player statistics are typically pretty stable after trades... good players are still good, bad players are still bad. What can make a difference is minutes and touches... but Diaw's problem isn't minutes, it's what he does with them. The trade won't make him a better rebounder, or less turnover-prone. He may get the ball more than in Phoenix, but I don't see how playing with worse teammates is going to help him score MORE efficiently. If anything, I'd expect his percentages to decrease. The system he's going to is even further from the D'Antoni ideal than Porter is... and you think this is an improved situation?

First they will be efficient but also they will make other players better. Why ? because they both have a higher IQ.

If you want some more meaningful stats, look for example at Diaw's Statistics when he was a bigger part of the team. 05-06 Playoffs. Playoffs, that's where good players up their game and when bad players are revealed. Look at someone like Ginobilli and compare his season and playoff numbers for example. And if you wonder why Diaw was the MIP that year. Well his best position is High Post PF. In Atlanta he played Guard with a bunch of scrubs, a poor coach and no concept of a team at all. In Phoenix after his first year, he was behind Stoudemire and they play the same position (PF from the high post).

I don't need to narrow it to the playoffs, because he played plenty, and well, in the 05-06 regular season, a fact I acknowledge. Are you arguing that in Phoenix he was not playing high-post PF? Because ironically, in his good year he was playing almost entirely center, and once Amare came back to play C and especially once Shaq showed up, Diaw has been able to play MORE PF, not less. Of course, Diaw's stats have actually been very consistent for the past 3 seasons... and lackluster. So am I really to think that it's Amare's fault Diaw fell off, though they really didn't play together much, or is it just that Diaw had one good year and could never get back to that?

Is Diaw any different now ? No he isn't. He will put up the same numbers if needed (adjusted because of the lower pace but he could have more touch because you still had Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, and Barbosa outside of Raja of course). And the Bobcats would probably need it.

On the contrary, he is different. He's 3 years of below-average basketball older, and he's been fat and unmotivated since signing his contract. He vocally chafed under a new coach's system, and is now headed to an even more controlling and domineering coach for a team that doesn't seem to be headed anywhere. The numbers he's putting up right now, on a per-36 basis, are a completely unacceptable return for JRich: 12.2pts, 5.6rebs, 3.1ast. Am I supposed to be wowed by that? One rebound and half an assist more than the guy he's replacing, in exchange for 7 points? I think I need the points back.

Maybe Raja lost a step but look at his playoff numbers for godsake: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell ... stats.html. He is tough; he is a great 3 point shooter and very efficient player. And they play well together, you will see number of Raja's 3 assisted by Diaw.

What about those playoff numbers are supposed to inspire me? In 05-06 and 06-07, his numbers were lower across the board than the regular season (points, assists, rebounds)... then last year he shoots .650 from 3 and I'm supposed to think it's a renaissance? We all know he can shoot 3s, but he does literally nothing else on that side of the ball. We're hoping we got a lockdown defender from a 32 year old who the numbers suggest is notably slipping. I would like more than that.

And btw blocks or steal won't ever tell you if someone is a good Defender or else Iverson and Stoudemire are good defenders.

I never said they did, but I thought I'd throw them in there since I was doing a full stat workup. They do tell you something... but of course, not that much.

I'd like to respond more directly to b-ball forever, but I think I'd be making the same points. The only defense that can be offered for Diaw is the 05-06 season. Even in following seasons, his games as a starter are not remarkably better than his games as a reserve; he has never approached that level of play again.

I agree that Diaw, at his best, is somewhat like Odom but with much worse rebounding. But Odom was just as effective as ever last year with the same usage rate as Diaw: 16.5%. Perhaps you can make an argument for Diaw based on a lack of minutes (that he can't "get in a groove" or whatever), but not based on his role in the offense while on the floor, which has remained consistent.

I certainly hope we get the best-case scenarios here... a lockdown defender with a nasty 3-ball and good leadership, a great defensive PF who operates the offense from the high post, and we give away a limited fast-break oriented 3pt shooter. Unfortunately the worst-case for us is much more likely: we get an overpaid, aging defensive specialist who isn't what he once was, and an overpaid, overweight, unmotivated and offensively limited PF who can't rebound. I suppose it'll probably end up somewhere in-between, but it really needs to be best-case for this not to have been a total jack move when you consider that Dudley and the 2nd rounder were involved as well.

[b-ball forever]

I don't need to narrow it to the playoffs, because he played plenty, and well, in the 05-06 regular season, a fact I acknowledge. Are you arguing that in Phoenix he was not playing high-post PF? Because ironically, in his good year he was playing almost entirely center, and once Amare came back to play C and especially once Shaq showed up, Diaw has been able to play MORE PF, not less. Of course, Diaw's stats have actually been very consistent for the past 3 seasons... and lackluster. So am I really to think that it's Amare's fault Diaw fell off, though they really didn't play together much, or is it just that Diaw had one good year and could never get back to that?

Actually nah, Diaw was not playing center most the year in 05-06 at all.

Kurt Thomas was the starting center and Diaw was the starting PF up until KT got injured (around February). It was only after then that Diaw got moved to center, and after that even tho he got listed as a center he was definitely playing the role of a high post PF, running the pick n roll with Nash over there all the time and creating off of drives from there.

After Amare came back, Diaw was not playing in the high post. That was Amare's designated spot to run the pick n rolls with Nash (even if he was listed as the center), and rightfully so cuz Amare's a more deadly offensive threat from there then Diaw is, and also cuz Amare lacks the post moves it takes to play effectively in the low-post, unlike Diaw.

Once STAT came back Diaw was reverting between low post, the perimeter, and the weakside high-post (2006-2007). After his MIP year he was only used a pure role player, Nash/Amare/Marion or Shaq/Barbosa were all options over him.

Again, the only games in which he had a premier role in the team's offense after 2005-2006 were the 2 last games of this year's Spurs series, during which he put up 21/9/8.

On the contrary, he is different. He's 3 years of below-average basketball older, and he's been fat and unmotivated since signing his contract. He vocally chafed under a new coach's system, and is now headed to an even more controlling and domineering coach for a team that doesn't seem to be headed anywhere. The numbers he's putting up right now, on a per-36 basis, are a completely unacceptable return for JRich: 12.2pts, 5.6rebs, 3.1ast. Am I supposed to be wowed by that? One rebound and half an assist more than the guy he's replacing, in exchange for 7 points? I think I need the points back.

Diaw isn't fat. He WAS fat in 2006-2007 after coming back from his offseason holidays (at the time all those pics of him with all those fatass dirty scottsdale chicks were taken), but he's been back to gameshape for a long time now already.

Also, he's spot on about saying how Porter wasn't running the offense the right way in Phoenix. Nash, Raja, Amare all came out said the same thing too before Boris did, and rightfully so.
Our team is built for pushing the tempo and running... and Porter completely changed the offensive system of the Suns, didn't let the Suns run up on fast breaks early on, made Shaq the focal point of the offense, went away from the Amare/Nash pick n roll, and completely killed the spacing on the court.
It was obvious that that wasn't the right way to play basketball with the players we have.

Now with you guys that won't be the same story at all. Your team is built completely differently then ours, so playing in Larry Brown's system obviously isn't a problem for u guys, and I doubt Diaw has any issues with that. (Actually from what I gather he seems pretty excited to play under LB).

I agree that Diaw, at his best, is somewhat like Odom but with much worse rebounding. But Odom was just as effective as ever last year with the same usage rate as Diaw: 16.5%. Perhaps you can make an argument for Diaw based on a lack of minutes (that he can't "get in a groove" or whatever), but not based on his role in the offense while on the floor, which has remained consistent.

lol, don't be fooled by the stats.
I've watched a fair amount of Suns and Lakers games, and I can tell you that it's blatantly obivous when ya watch em that Odom had a way more important role on the Lakers last year then Diaw did with the Suns.

Odom was the 2nd option on offense behind Kobe pre-Gasol trade, and the co-2nd option with Gasol after that. Diaw on the other hand was the 5th option behind Nash, Amare, Marion or Shaq, Barbosa.
This Year Odom now has an identical role to Diaw, notice how he dropped from 14/10.5/3.5 to 8.5/6/3.3
Very similar to Diaw's numbers, and Diaw's been playing at a much slower pace then Odom this year (yeah, Terry Porter's dumbass system is MUCH slower the the Lakers system).

Diaw's numbers went down for exactly the same reason, this year the Lakers got Gasol as primary highpost man, while the Suns got back Amare as highpost dominator in 2006.

Both Odom and Diaw are still good players despite what the numbers suggest.

I certainly hope we get the best-case scenarios here... a lockdown defender with a nasty 3-ball and good leadership, a great defensive PF who operates the offense from the high post, and we give away a limited fast-break oriented 3pt shooter. Unfortunately the worst-case for us is much more likely: we get an overpaid, aging defensive specialist who isn't what he once was, and an overpaid, overweight, unmotivated and offensively limited PF who can't rebound. I suppose it'll probably end up somewhere in-between, but it really needs to be best-case for this not to have been a total jack move when you consider that Dudley and the 2nd rounder were involved as well.

Yeah, we'll see how it all works out, hopefully for the better of both teams.

I do like the way things look for u guys better then you seem to tho. Your team won't be as fun to watch w/o J-Rich, but I think it'll either be better or just as good as it was.

Stats are an interesting tool, but when u watch the games you realize that they don't tell the whole story
(OP was an interesting writeup still).

[Paydro70]

Actually nah, Diaw was not playing center most the year in 05-06 at all.

Kurt Thomas was the starting center and Diaw was the starting PF up until KT got injured (around February). It was only after then that Diaw got moved to center, and after that even tho he got listed as a center he was definitely playing the role of a high post PF, running the pick n roll with Nash over there all the time and creating off of drives from there.

After Amare came back etc. etc.

Thomas only played 1/3 of the team's minutes, Diaw 72%, so even if they played together for every minute Thomas was on the floor, Diaw was still playing center more than half his time that season. Likely he spent much more time than that at the 5, since 9 of his top 10 units did not include Kurt. Of course, saying "center" is a bit of a misnomer for D'Antoni's offense, so I'll take your word for it on Diaw's actual in-game usage as what we might call a high-post PF.

The problem is, even if that does explain his increased assist rate, it doesn't explain the lower turnovers (shouldn't they be up, if anything, if he's handling the ball so much?), the doubled block rate, and the career high rebound rate. I think it's pretty clear that those numbers are because he was playing closer to the basket on defense than he did other years, which he won't be doing for us. They might also be because he was highly motivated, which he also probably will not be for us. We can talk about how much of a role he's going to play in our offense, but what scoring option is he? My guess is no higher than 4th, behind Okafor, Wallace, and whoever's playing PG, so I don't think he's going to be taking as many shots as he did in 05-06 either, even if he does get to distribute.

Diaw isn't fat. He WAS fat in 2006-2007 after coming back from his offseason holidays (at the time all those pics of him with all those fatass dirty scottsdale chicks were taken), but he's been back to gameshape for a long time now already.

We'll see, I guess. This may just be a point of some sensitivity for me (and other Bobcats fans) because of the Sean May experience. Any history of motivation problems doesn't make me happy, but he'll of course get the chance to prove me wrong.

Also, he's spot on about saying how Porter wasn't running the offense the right way in Phoenix. Nash, Raja, Amare all came out said the same thing too before Boris did, and rightfully so.
Our team is built for pushing the tempo and running...
SNIP
Now with you guys that won't be the same story at all. Your team is built completely differently then ours, so playing in Larry Brown's system obviously isn't a problem for u guys, and I doubt Diaw has any issues with that. (Actually from what I gather he seems pretty excited to play under LB).

Again, we'll see. This is 100% not a running offense, even with the Porter slowdown the Suns are still the #12-paced team, and we're #29. In a sense I can see how Diaw fits in very well as a guy to run some plays through, but if the consensus is that his best year was with the SSOL Suns, why shouldn't I view this as a disaster waiting to happen? I certainly hope he's just complaining about playing PF instead of point-PF, but his comments on how the new offense wasn't "exciting" bode ill.

lol, don't be fooled by the stats.
I've watched a fair amount of Suns and Lakers games, and I can tell you that it's blatanly obivous when ya watch em that Odom had a way more important role on the Lakers last year then Diaw did with the Suns.

Odom was the 2nd option on offense behind Kobe pre-Gasol trade, and the co-2nd option with Gasol after that. Diaw on the other hand was the 5th option behind Nash, Amare, Marion or Shaq, Barbosa.
This Year Odom now has an identical role to Diaw, notice how he dropped from 14/10.5/3.5 to 8.5/6/3.3

I don't see how a drop from 20% usage to 16.5% isn't significant. Look at his per-minute on-ball numbers, they dropped across the board, most notably in assists. His shooting didn't actually decline as much as his passing, his assist rate went from 19.5% in 06-07 to 13.8% in 07-08. He was used to finish plays much more, Gasol was definitively the number two, and in fact before he got there Andrew Bynum saw the ball more than Odom did.

The only way Odom can be construed to have played a much bigger role is if you're fooled by minutes... on a per-minute basis, Diaw took more shots, got more assists and turned the ball over more. He definitely touched the ball just as much as Odom.

Yeah, we'll see how it all works out, hopefully for the better of both teams.

I do like the way things look for u guys better then you seem to tho. Your team won't be as fun to watch w/o J-Rich, but I think it'll either be better or just as good as it was.

Stats are an interesting tool, but when u watch the games you realize that they don't tell the whole story
(OP was an interesting writeup still).

Thanks, it did take me a little time. I appreciate your response, it's always nice to have a civil conversation on the internet ( ). You obviously have a lot more experience with Diaw and Bell than I do, and so I hope your observations are correct and that I'll be beyond thrilled by their play. I am not, as you say, optimistic about it though.