Wow Boris Diaw! (merged)

[W_HAMILTON]

I like acquiring Howard; I would have preferred to see our old team with him inserted at PF, to see what he could do. While he seems to be in good condition, I guess he's not in "game condition" just yet, but I think he could have been fine as a stopgap until we could have found something better. He's decent at just about everything, which is more than can be said for anyone else we tried to play at PF.

As for Bell...who do we blame Crawford's 50 on? I know Felton was guarding him some, but so was Bell. Felton and Bell are supposed to be good defenders. And Bell is supposed to be known as a "stopper," so even if Crawford scored the majority of his points on Felton, why would you not put Bell on him?

Like I said, I would have just preferred them to keep Bell, and look to have traded for Diaw while giving up less. He didn't look to be in Phoenix's plans anyways (he was playing barely half the game), and it seemed like he was growing unhappy there. Given his contract, and given Phoenix's history, you figure you could have acquired him in basically a contract dump, maybe for some of our young players that haven't turned out. Or, work out a 3-way where we give up some lesser pieces (Carroll, Felton, etc), Phoenix gives up Diaw, and the third team gives up a veteran with an expiring contract to Phoenix.

I really don't like what I've seen from Bell. I figured Diaw would be unmotivated and go back to being lazy since he was on a losing team, but he's produced. Bell hasn't. He had a nice offensive game yesterday (finally), but where was the defense?

[fatlever]

i'll be shocked if bell contributes significantly for this team on a consistent basis. i think ham is 100% right. we really should have found a way to acquire diaw w/out losing jrich.

[Bassman]

Like I said, I would have just preferred them to keep Bell, and look to have traded for Diaw while giving up less. He didn't look to be in Phoenix's plans anyways (he was playing barely half the game), and it seemed like he was growing unhappy there. Given his contract, and given Phoenix's history, you figure you could have acquired him in basically a contract dump, maybe for some of our young players that haven't turned out. Or, work out a 3-way where we give up some lesser pieces (Carroll, Felton, etc), Phoenix gives up Diaw, and the third team gives up a veteran with an expiring contract to Phoenix.

Phoenix wanted J-Rich, so there would have been no deal without him. Discussing getting Diaw for less is just not realistic. Bell will provide contributions, but no one expects him to be a star.

Remember, this team is still working on adapting to each other AND running LB's system. When Crawford was so HOT he pulled others out of their defensive assignments, creating greater havoc with these guys than with an established team.

[W_HAMILTON]

It shouldn't matter what you want. Phoenix was looking to unload a hefty contract for a player that barely averaged 24mpg, and a second player who had also grown discontent with the organization and where it was headed. You don't trade from a position of power in that situation. Who else would have traded a legit 20ppg, borderline All-Star for Diaw? Even D'Antoni in NY wouldn't have traded much for him (not that they have much to trade to begin with).

We could have gotten a decent PF by dangling basically anyone other than Richardson/Wallace/Okafor. You don't give up your best player to fill a need, even if it is a necessary need. Toronto may need, I don't know, a wing; but they'd be pretty damn stupid to trade Bosh for one. You keep your best pieces, and look to trade your lesser pieces to fill your needs.

[nba_addict]

Suns fan here.

After seeing what J-Rich can do in PHX Id say he is not the type of 2-guard that PHX needs. A 2-guard who can defend, shoot, slash and create is what PHX have been looking for. Its just amazing to see a 2-guard who can post-up though.

As for Boris, I think people hated him (specially in the trade board) because of his contract. The difference between Boris and J-Rich is that Boris will bring out the best of his teammates in everyway Boris could while J-Rich will make a pass-first playmaker look like he is the next john stockton.

Charlotte always had a player who look to shoot for themselves first without looking whether its a good shoot or not. More oftern than Felton, Richardson and Wallace always looks for their shots first without considering whether its a good (or most efficient) shot for the team or not. Including Boris and subtracting one player who shoots a lot will make things more efficient in offense. Boris is a good facilitator and finisher in the post and his court vision and passing ability is one of the best for 4/5's in the NBA today.

Bell is a reliable 3pt shooter but you have to consider he is a streak shooter. Bell is also better off as catch and shoot shooter than him creating for himself. Felton and Augustine should realize Bell is an on option on offense whenever they drive to the basket.

17-8-4 in 53% shooting for first 5 games. Diaw is also averaging 3.2 TO's per outing but wait for him to settle it down to 2-2.4 range. Even against the Spurs in last years playoff Diaw just averaged 2.2 TO's. This early you already got the 05-06 Boris Diaw in the deal.

[ommmmmm7wytj]

You don't give up your best player to fill a need

J-Richardson was really the best player? the "best" scorer yes, but best player... If he was the go-to-guy he was a poor go-to-guy in comparaison of D-Wade, Lebron, Kobe... That's why the bobcats are so down.

When your "best" player doesn't give you what you expect from him, it's time to change. Some other players could be this go to guy, this "best player", in others words the man who touches the ball, who creates for others, who shows the way, who takes bigs shots.

Leaders are always big defenders, leaders make teamates better. J-richardson is not. Just a scorer, nothing else. 43% FG is just ok, 43% for a average defender, imo, that's bad. And he's just hot with his 3P%: 48% it's crazy; but he certainly won't shot like that all the season. In PHX, he's a better Barbosa, more athletic, better defender. Great for them. But Diaw, if he's not the answer to move the Bobcats into the Play-offs, he is the begining of something. He's a similar to Pipen: the bobcats have their lieutenant, just missing the right go to guy. Diaw (3Deux One zero!) could be the first step to built something big in Charlotte. Good lieutenants are certainly so rare as big stars. To be a lieutenant is almost a vocation. The wiling to play for others it's not so frequent. And if Boris could prove he can do il well, he will deserve his contract. 9M$ it is not a star contract, it is te contract of the lieutenant - and he is.

Boris will put the light on a new star. The question is (hum searching...) WHO? Okafor, Augustin? The star is not still there. (Butler and Granger called me to propose for the job...)

A top scorer who scores 18pts to 50fg% is more usefull than an other who shots 22pts to 43%.

If Boris is the "3Deux" (3D + 32, three-deux in french), who could be the "one zero (1.0) ignition"? (not Arenas please)

[W_HAMILTON]

How do people still say Richardson is just a scorer? Diaw has been filling up the stat sheet while in Charlotte, and he's averaging 17/8/4. Since being traded to Phoenix, Richardson is averaging 18/6/3. When their production is that close, you can't say one is "3D" then say the other does nothing but score. Richardson doesn't create for others like Diaw since he is not a great ball-handler, but Richardson does a lot more than just score.

And again, even if Diaw works out here, you try to get him for less than giving up your best player. He was playing barely half the game in Phoenix, and there were rumors that he had grown unhappy like Bell. People complain about Wallace's contract (~9m/year); well, imagine if we were paying him to play only half the game? Richardson had been arguably our best player, he's a great person that never complained about playing for us once he got here, and there were no rumors that he was unhappy about being here.

You don't trade your best player who is content with his situation for a rumored malcontent that has a contract his team would gladly rid themselves of. In the perfect situation to sell high and buy low, this team did the opposite.

[BigSlam]

In the perfect situation to sell high and buy low, this team did the opposite.

This team has a history of buggering that up. Heck, we over paid for Swish!! I'm still happy today that we made the trade, but hindsight says we gave up too much. We gave the GSW's a "get out of jail" free card - or in this case, a get away from the lux tax free card. You look at what the Clipps gave up for Camby and I can't help but think that a protected 1st should have been enough to get Swish.

Then we help the Pistons out by taking Nazzy off their hands for them.

Heck, we paid through the butt for Piggy Harrington who rotted on the bench or on the IL and not only did that, but gave him a multi year deal when no one else wanted to touch him.

We gave up a future pick for Jeff McFriggingInnis!!

Now this deal. I'm with you W_Hamilton. If Diaw can continue you produce at this level for us it will cushion the blow, but there is no way we should have given up Swish for Diaw and no way in HELL we should have given up Dude and our own 2nd round pick for Bell. They both wanted out of PHX, one was hardly playing which made him VERY over paid and the other is past his prime. We should have been able to give them Ammo, McMay and our 2nd for Diaw and left it at that. That way they would have got two expiring deals with some upside and away from Diaw's contract and we would have been looking at the playoffs for sure with a Felton/DJ - Swish - Crash - Diaw - EO50 line up without losing the depth that the Dude gave us off the bench.

There is a bad history with this team and poor trading.

[ommmmmm7wytj]

It's too soon to say the trade is good or not. I mean, when your team looses, the stats don't matter. You need to found another chemistry. You don't compare stats after five or six games as you compare salaries in a trade. Even after the end of the saison is it significant to compare the victory percentage before and after? well, I'm not sure... When you're down (and out), your choices are commanded by the necessity. When you make a trade like that it's a long-term bet. The necessity was the rebuilding. It's done. Now is the time of a new era, of a new chemistry. And you can't see the secrets of the chemistry on a page of statistic. The chemistry was zero with the previous team, the previous "best player". Maybe Okafor, Wallace will be more confortable without Richardson. Who knows? Diaw can make 18/6/5 and other players can increase their numbers too.

In five game (it is only statistics, as I said chemistry is somthing more mysterious) the bobcats average 98 PPG (16th in the last five games). Season... 91 (last team). Where was Richardson? And PPG for opponents doesn't change with 93. +4.6pts (diff) the last 5 games: 7th team in the NBA; season: -2.53, the 21st in NBA.

The numbers don't speak. WE make them affable, and we make them say what we want. It is the first minute of a new game, Richardons is out, the team seems ok. Let them play a new song for us, write an new story, found a new chemistry. The contest is far from being finished. (I'm really going to seem stupid if Boris leaves Charlotte in February...)

[W_HAMILTON]

There's a lot of damn teams that lose, that doesn't mean all their players are awful. If we end up losing, and the Suns make it to the WCF or something, does that mean that Diaw is a crappy player? No? Then it shouldn't be said that Richardson is crappy just because he was on a losing team. He was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar down on the list of problems we had. If it wasn't for him, we would have been even more of a losing team.

As for why our team stunk offensively, it certainly wasn't because of Richardson. A lot of it had to deal with the offense that Larry Brown was instilling in the players, which forced them to play in ways they haven't been used to playing.

Also, it should be noted that Richardson missed a good portion of the season. So, I don't know how much our starting record can be blamed on anyone, because it seemed like Richardson and Wallace were missing games here and there, and they are two of our best players. With Richardson, we were 5-9 on the year, which isn't that bad when you take into account half of those 14 games were against teams with winning records, some of which are some of the best teams in the league (CLEx2, BOS, NOH, DEN, etc).

[spectre_]

We should have been able to give them Ammo, McMay and our 2nd for Diaw and left it at that.

Salary played a part. It would have been hard to take on Boris' 36 million and keep Richardson's 40 million on the books. If we'd have kept him and added Boris we'd be at 57 million and 10 players next year. This trade gave us some cap flexibility.

Duds should never have been included tho.

Edit:

Actually 52 with 9 players...forgot to subtract Ammo 5.2 million (geesh, were we stupid to pick up that option or what?). Ammo's contract next year probably makes him pretty much untradable this season. They probably wouldn't have took him.

[BigSlam]

Salary played a part. It would have been hard to take on Boris' 36 million and keep Richardson's 40 million on the books. If we'd have kept him and added Boris we'd be at 57 million and 10 players next year. This trade gave us some cap flexibility.

No doubt. But we have a lot of dead weight riding the pine getting paid and we should have turned that into Boris.

I'd like to think that we could have worked something out that would have moved a combination of Nazzy, Ammo, McMay, added a 2nd round pick and brought Boris back in.

My point is that in this trade, like pretty much every trade we have made, we over paid.

[spectre_]

Salary played a part. It would have been hard to take on Boris' 36 million and keep Richardson's 40 million on the books. If we'd have kept him and added Boris we'd be at 57 million and 10 players next year. This trade gave us some cap flexibility.

No doubt. But we have a lot of dead weight riding the pine getting paid and we should have turned that into Boris.

I'd like to think that we could have worked something out that would have moved a combination of Nazzy, Ammo, McMay, added a 2nd round pick and brought Boris back in.

My point is that in this trade, like pretty much every trade we have made, we over paid.

They'd never have taken Nazr (who would besides us?), and anyway the cost would have hit us even worse...esp. in year 3 when Richardson is making about 14.5 million + Boris' 9.

Because of the financials I think it had to have been either Richardson or Crash, and their salary structure might also have had something to do with that choice (1.1 million rise per yr. vs. flat). Because of Crash's more overall game I think we made the right choice there, but for all I know Crash could be dealt this week.

I agree that we overpaid by adding in Duds...but that's what we do. Someone needs to inform management it's not a good thing to be everyone else's patsy in every single trade.

[Mr2400]

a pick, McMay, and Ammo for diaw? give me a break, the suns are not in rebuild mode.

[BigSlam]

a pick, McMay, and Ammo for diaw? give me a break, the suns are not in rebuild mode.

No, they are in "keep us the heck away from the lux tax and rid a $9 million dollar a year malcontent who doesn't fit with our current make up and is playing less than half a game" mode.

[nba_addict]

^ The trade is done guys and nothing else you can do about that.

As for Boris, I think people hated him (specially in the trade board) because of his contract. The difference between Boris and J-Rich is that Boris will bring out the best of his teammates in everyway Boris could while J-Rich will make a pass-first playmaker look like he is the next john stockton.

Some key stats after Diaw trade:

Gerald Wallace - 17.8 ppg - 7.5 rpg - Seems its more or less Wallace average but tweak is Gerald is shooting 64% from the filed.

Emeka Okafor - 19.2 ppg - 12.4 rpg - 2.2 bpg and 59% FG shooting.

Just saying. Eliminating J-Rich helps the frontcourt and the team to score more efficiently. That leaves Felton and Augustin chucking shoots with low FG%. As an outsiders opinion one of Felton or Augustin had to go for some upgrade (preferrably Felton) in other position(s). With Boris in front court you dont need a PG who dominates the ball too much and shoots a lot but just a guy who distribute the ball and a reliable shooter. As for now, as long as Felton and Augustin defers some of their shots to Wallace, Diaw and Okafor that would help a lot for the team.

And Boris?
16.6 ppg - 7.8 rpg - 4.2 apg 50% FG

Im starting to like this team.

This may just end up the best MJ move so far as a GM (or is it Larry Brown?).

[DraftSpecialist]

On the bright side of trading Richardson, you guys have some salary cap flexibility in the near future. Raja, Ammo, May, and Felton will all be off the books in 2010. Only 41 million on the books heading into that off-season with Okafor, Diaw, Augustin, and Wallace all still under contract.

I don't how likely it is you will be able to make a splash via FA that year, when you consider the other teams looking to do the same thing. But you may be able to package those contracts to a team who is looking to clear more cap room before the trade deadline.

[nba_addict]

I say it before, its time for Felton to go for the betterment of the team. Him continously chucking voluminous shots with low %FG is what is dragging the team to the floor. Forget about his points, assist numbers and defense. An steady PG with reliable outside shooting is what this team needs at the starting PG spot given the Okafor-Diaw-Wallace frontcourt is working well.

[cavsfan_osiris]

I say it before, its time for Felton to go for the betterment of the team. Him continously chucking voluminous shots with low %FG is what is dragging the team to the floor. Forget about his points, assist numbers and defense. An steady PG with reliable outside shooting is what this team needs at the starting PG spot given the Okafor-Diaw-Wallace frontcourt is working well.

awesome adjective

I don't think DJ is ready for that role just yet. Coming of the bench is an ideal situation for him right now. The Cats shouldn't extend an offer sheet to Felton after this season, but they will need to get a starting PG, if they want to compete for a solid playoff position.