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If we make playoffs we get no picks?

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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#21 » by fatlever » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:45 pm

dex, you've been keeping discussion going on this board. its fun to have new posts to read.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#22 » by Dexmor » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:23 pm

Thanks fatlevel. I think I would be a good mod with the hours I put in and I don't take part in the insults.

Back to ball, I still think they should have gotten Lopez because he's better then DJ and instead of having a 5'10 guy when we have a pg we could have a really good Center who is a surefire allstar next to Mek.
If they had to pick DJ which I do like DJ I still think they should of went for best player avialable which I have a hard time believing that is Lexi because we need everything but a pg.
Now if they really wanted a Center and they were willing to wait why not get DeAndre Jordan? He is a real center with real size and super athletic. With LB's teaching DeAndre Jordan could have been with Howard and Bynum in a couple years.
Lexi is high risk high high reward but DeAndre Jordan is a sure thing in 3-4 years.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#23 » by Dexmor » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:27 pm

Picking Jordan would have totally justified picking DJ and it would have been the best draft in Bobcats history and possibly the best draft of the year compared to the rest of the teams.
Maybe even better then getting Rose,Mayo,Beasley,Love.
I might choose DJ and DeAndre over any 1 of them. Probably not but you never know. Getting an awesome pg and C is huge. Just ask the Magic.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#24 » by BigSlam » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:30 pm

Fatlevel - what do you think about DeAndre Jordan?

Maybe Spectra can add something too?
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#25 » by dmutombo321 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:52 pm

BigSlam wrote:Fatlevel - what do you think about DeAndre Jordan?

Maybe Spectra can add something too?


I'll beat Fatlevel and spectra to the punch :wink:

It took him awhile but Deandre Jordan looks like he is going to pan out. He had 6 blocks in 30 minutes a few games ago. And during Bynums breakout game, Deandre didnt do too shabby himself: 23 points, 12 rebounds, 4 blocks. Yesterday, he had 20 boards, 7 offensive against GS.

His post skills are still rudimentary and underdeveloped but he looks to have the makings of a big time rebounder / shot blocker a-la Dalembert.

Ajinca on the other hand has all the skills you want in a center but lacks the body. I would tend to agree that if he can add 25 lbs of muscle in the offseason, he could really put it all together. If he reports next year at 225, I wouldnt expect anything different from this year production wise. He's just too skinny and gets shoved around in the post.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#26 » by e4Nf6 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:01 pm

Dexmor wrote:Yeah but some people just can't put on weight. Guys like Keon Clark, Kevin Garnett, Tyshawn Prince, Warrick and many others are just built like that.


It's interesting you should mention those guys because Garnett and Prince seem to do just fine despite being "skinny," What Walt said about not necessarily getting bigger but getting stronger is spot on. If all we get out of Lex is "another Tayshaun" or "another Garnett" that would be ok with me. :D

We haven't seen a great deal of Lex but, it looks like to me that while he could get stronger that isn't his main problem. He is still a little confused by NBA style Bball. He is a step slow and it's not his feet's fault.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#27 » by WaydownSouth » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:09 pm

Yeah fatlevel..... what do you think??

If DeAndre is/was such a sure thing then I find it hard that he slipped so far down in the draft, but it looks like the Clips pulled a potential diamond from the rough..

Everything I've seen of Jordan indicates (to me) that he has a limited offensive game, basically dunks and put backs. What I've seen of Lexi indicates that whilst he may not have the power game of Jordan, he has a 1000 time better mid range game which paired with Mek is a better option that Jordan's offensive game.

Lexi also has a 7'6" wingspan, he just needs to hang out with McMay for a 2 or 3 weeks and he'll put on some weight.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#28 » by dmutombo321 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:53 pm

e4Nf6 wrote:
We haven't seen a great deal of Lex but, it looks like to me that while he could get stronger that isn't his main problem. He is still a little confused by NBA style Bball. He is a step slow and it's not his feet's fault.


Yeah, no question. Lex is often confused and is definitely a step slow.

But I would argue that maybe some of it is the fault of his feet. He seems to have great footwork in the post when making moves offensively but seems to have trouble staying in front of his man on the other end of the floor when he is forces to step out. Some guys just dont move good laterally and it looks like Lex might be one of them. I happen to believe the Lex's skillset and lack of lateral foot speed make him best suited for center.

Earlier in the season when lex saw minutes at the 4 with Hollins checking the opposing 5, it wasnt uncommon for Ajinca's man to blow right by him at the top of the key and be at the rim before Lex could even react. I sat courtside for a toronto game and he was repeatedly burned by Bargnani on drives. He seems to do a worse job checking mobile 4's than even Okafor who has a less than stellar reputation in that department.

As for the weight issue, skinny players like Prince and Kevin Martin are wings whose games really arent predicated on banging in the post. Yes, Garnett's long and lean but he is two inches shorter than Ajinca and still has 33 lbs on him.

Slam and I had heated arguments a couple summers ago on Kevin Durant's projected position. Slam persisted that Durant would enter the league playing 4 and I thought otherwise citing his staggering lack of bulk. Durants rookie season he played exclusively at the 2-3.

This year, he plays alot more 3 but very rarely have I ever noticed him get any time at the 4. Incidently, one of these rare occasions happened to be a OKC @ Charlotte game I attended back in December. Swift, Petro and Sene were all out injured and Chris Wilcox got in foul trouble, eventually fouling out of the game. Durant was forced to log minutes at the 4 while nick collison moved over to center. During this brief stint, Durant was abused in the post by none other than Sean May who, in 20 or so minutes of action, logged 10 points and 11 rebouns, repeatedly shoving Durant out of the way like a rag doll after backing him down for layups.

Getting back on topic though, If Ajinca can get up to 240-245, I think I can be a real asset for us. Right now, he is just too frail to hold his position. And I dont think he'll ever be able to reliably step out on mobile 4s.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#29 » by BigSlam » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:48 am

dmutombo321 wrote:Slam and I had heated arguments a couple summers ago on Kevin Durant's projected position. Slam persisted that Durant would enter the league playing 4 and I thought otherwise citing his staggering lack of bulk. Durants rookie season he played exclusively at the 2-3.

Just to clarify, my stance was that he was better suited to the 4 long term, not that he should have started his NBA career at the 4. Since the coaching change and the move of Durant from the 2 (a position he should never play) to the 3/4 his fg% has improved and his rebounding has improved. It's not unusual for the Thunder to play either Krstic or Collison at the 5 with Green and Durant switching between the 3/4. He's a MUCH better player at this position than he ever would be at the 2 - and now it's not just my opinion that says so, the numbers back it up too.
Earlier in the season when lex saw minutes at the 4 with Hollins checking the opposing 5, it wasnt uncommon for Ajinca's man to blow right by him at the top of the key and be at the rim before Lex could even react. I sat courtside for a toronto game and he was repeatedly burned by Bargnani on drives. He seems to do a worse job checking mobile 4's than even Okafor who has a less than stellar reputation in that department.

I wonder if this is because up until this point he's been able to get away with just being long? So if the guy he was defending got by him he could just use his length to interfere with the shot from behind but now he's in the NBA where the guys he is guarding are much more athletic and explosive he'll need to learn to use his feet and not be lazy?
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#30 » by e4Nf6 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:52 am

It's an interesting question, and we haven't seen much of Lex and I could change my mind after seeing him play more....

In my opinion "lateral movement" doesn't really exist. It exists, but not as a separate physical capability separate from your overall speed/quickness. I think that lateral quickness is a product of a good defensive stance, good concentration, and good anticipation. (as well as quickness/athletic ability of course)

How else does somebody like Bruce Bowen stay in front of Steve Nash while JR Smith or Gerald Green couldn't do it to save their life.

Watch Lex as he runs the court or as you said, his footwork in the post. He's much more comfortable there so he "looks" faster. On defense he doesn't get low, he bites on fakes and doesn't move his feet so he "looks" slow.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#31 » by Paydro70 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:19 am

There's a lot of terminology problems when you're talking about physical capabilities. I think I agree with you, e4, in that "lateral quickness" is effectively the same thing as "quickness" or "agility," or one might also say "acceleration." I think if you have a quick first step on offense, it's effectively the same thing as being quick to stay in front of someone on defense, the question is mostly mental from there. However, there is a difference between straight line running speed and agility, which is something that the NFL combine continually bears out. People are often much faster (comparatively) in running short distances and changing directions or at running a straight line. In the NFL, that's the 40-yard dash versus the cone drills, in the NBA it'd be the 3/4 court sprint versus the lane agility drills.

As for Ajinca... I'm not even sure what you mean, Slam, when you say "getting away with" "up until this point." The man has barely played on a professional level, in France or the U.S. He hasn't had to actually do anything yet, and I think we know very little about his capabilities. In his extremely limited minutes so far at the NBA level, he has demonstrated varying levels of incompetence in everything. This is pretty much as expected, he was drafted as a "project" and you really can't even begin to judge him until next year (when he at least needs to have improved).

I think we've all been in agreement from the beginning that his potential was always as a jump-shooting big ala Bosh and Aldridge, both of whom are basically PFs who occasionally have played C. That remains his upside for now, I completely agree with Fatlevel that it doesnt really matter... if Okafor is on the floor he'll be a PF for sure.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#32 » by BigSlam » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:30 am

Paydro70 wrote:As for Ajinca... I'm not even sure what you mean, Slam, when you say "getting away with" "up until this point." The man has barely played on a professional level, in France or the U.S. He hasn't had to actually do anything yet, and I think we know very little about his capabilities.

I was basing it on this stuff. I mean, he's always seemed to have "ok" shot blocking numbers so if he doesn't have the greatest footwork, my assumption is that he relies on his length (unlike someone like EO50 who uses a great understanding and timing to get his)?

Unfortunately, he’s going to have to gain a considerable amount of weight to utilize the latter, a difficult proposition considering how skinny he is in the lower body. That lack of bulk hurts him defensively, but his wingspan more than compensates for that deficiency on this level.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Las ... hree-2962/
Defensively, the big man showed good potential as a shot-blocker. A wing-span of nearly 7’9” combined with good timing allowed him to block 3 shots during the game, and the guards from team USA seemed to challenge him less and less in the paint as the game progressed. His man to man defense would also benefit from added bulk on his frame.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Nik ... onal-Team/
On the other hand, some of the stuff he displays from time to time is ridiculously impressive. We’re especially taking about the intimidation he delivers around the basket and his ability to block shots. He’s so freaking long, while also nicely athletic, that he can reject a shot from virtually at the roof, right where he sometimes comes up with some impressive rebounds. He’s gaining defensive awareness, better following his match-ups, and recognizing where and when to execute a team rotation. To summarize: still raw, still promising.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/U-1 ... unds-2187/
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#33 » by e4Nf6 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:18 am

I actually think that "lateral quickness" on display when one is guarding 1-on1 is more about technique and anticipation than athletic ability. Although general quickness certainly helps. I think if you had Raja/Bowen/Shane Battier run through cones with a stop watch, that their time would not compare to say, Monta Ellis or Nate Robinson. But the first group of guys is far better at keeping NBA players in front of them.

The point being....If "lateral quickness" is something that depends more on technique than athletic ability, that means it can be taught. Which means it is less on an issue for Lex, who has in abundance, things that cannot be taught.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#34 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:03 pm

LOL at this entire thread. i just went back and read page 2. that's some collective funny stuff there. "fatlevel" too damn funny.
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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#35 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:09 pm

introducing...... FATLEVEL

half fat man, half level

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Re: If we make playoffs we get no picks? 

Post#36 » by doc.end » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:28 pm

Dexmor wrote:Thanks fatlevel. I think I would be a good mod with the hours I put in and I don't take part in the insults.

Back to ball, I still think they should have gotten Lopez because he's better then DJ and instead of having a 5'10 guy when we have a pg we could have a really good Center who is a surefire allstar next to Mek.
If they had to pick DJ which I do like DJ I still think they should of went for best player avialable which I have a hard time believing that is Lexi because we need everything but a pg.
Now if they really wanted a Center and they were willing to wait why not get DeAndre Jordan? He is a real center with real size and super athletic. With LB's teaching DeAndre Jordan could have been with Howard and Bynum in a couple years.
Lexi is high risk high high reward but DeAndre Jordan is a sure thing in 3-4 years.

Except Ajinça totally outplayed Jordan in our workout. LB knew who he wanted among Ajinça, Hibbert, McGee and Jordan for sure (the same workout group).
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