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Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace?

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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#41 » by Charlottehoops » Fri Aug 6, 2010 12:19 am

Jaruff wrote:Gerald's good out of circumstance; if someone else is given the opportunity to start during our first season, Gerald's probably playing in Europe and we're having this debate with another player. Tamar Slay or Theron Smith could easily be in Crash's position today if things work out differently..


Your kidding right. We were an expansion team. Nobody said, " We are building this team around Gerald Wallace. Everyone else is complimentary." Gerald started because he was the best small forward on the team. Tamar and Theron sucked. That's why neither of them even lasted two season.

Jaruff wrote:Jax, on the other hand, had to work his way into the NBA. He's excelled with EVERY team that he's played for. Yes, Crash was behind a lot of people in Sacramento, but Jackson came out of nowhere to START for the Spurs when they won a championship.

Starting and playing well on a championship winning team > Being awarded the leading role on an expansion team full of rejects and no-names.


You seemed to be misinformed. Jax came straight out of highschool. He was not some Dleaguer who overachieved. Both of them were young players who simply played sparingly until they got their opportunities.

As far as who I think is better. Crash. Jax is the better scorer, but Crash is the more all around player. If Jax was packaged in a trade to acquire a star I would loose no sleep at all. If Crash was I would be seriously sadden with the magnitude of that sacrifice.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#42 » by ElCapitan01Jax » Fri Aug 6, 2010 5:10 am

Jack was already a starter his 4th year in the league and had a championship under his belt when he was at worst the fourth best player on the floor with the Spurs averaging a shade over 12 ppg in the series and playing excellent defense on whoever he defendes which happened to be Kenyon Matrin or even Jason Kidd which proves his versatility.At the time assistant coach Mike Brown (who later coached the traitors Cavs) said in a direct quote "The first year we had him in San Antonio, he was on the (injured reserve) most of the year. At first, he didn't understand why because he probably was the most talented player we had on that team, but he needed to mature a little bit so we stuck him there to see how he would respond. He was the best teammate on our team that first year. He was the first guy off the bench high-fiving his teammates during timeouts. He was in every single huddle. He was juiced at practice ready to play and compete and make the starters better, and it carried over into his second year when he got his opportunity to get out onto the floor and prove he could be a vital part of the organization.".The guy is a leader on the floor something Gerald Wallace is not.Lets take that into accountabilty.All you guys looking at stats in nonsenical.Watch the games and look at it whats it worth.How come Gerald was never even talked about as even a real good player before Jack got there?He changed the teams idenity and culture with less talent then a few years earlier when Okafor and J-Rich were both on the roster.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#43 » by SWedd523 » Fri Aug 6, 2010 5:13 am

I'm guessing you didn't become a fan of the Cats until Jack came to town?
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#44 » by ElCapitan01Jax » Fri Aug 6, 2010 5:14 am

SWEDD523 wrote:I don't get the point you're trying to make with those guys. I personally wouldn't call any of those guys (other than Jeff) efficient scorers.

Stats are but one part of determining the value of a player. You can't either solely rely on them or shrug them off as having no importance. You use them in conjunction with other things to see how good they are. For every time Jack made a big shot last year, he made one where you said, "Um... what was that?". The same can be said for his (overrated) passing.

Yes he has a ton of offensive talent, yes he can score in a variety of ways, but he doesn't always use his abilities in the best manner--posting up for example. He's big enough to go on the low block and get buckets all night if he wants too, but he'd rather jab step 15 times then pull up a contested jumper.

I don't want you to think I don't like him. I think he's a fantastic Batman to Crash's Robin, but there's no way around the fact that he isn't the offensive weapon he COULD be. Crash knows he isn't a dominant scorer, so what does he do? What he does best. Slash to the lane, hit the corner three when it's open, beat slower defenders off the dribble, etc. He doesn't overdo it.



I defnitely agree.I cant stand when he takes that contested jumper from 15 feet away after a few jab steps when hes not punishing a smaller guy with his crafty moves on the block.He actually shot 28 pct from shots on the right side midrange 2 years back with the Warriors so its not like thats his bread and butter.He needs to cut down on the threes and get to the rim.At the end of the day it will still be a 21-5-4 season barring injury.Same old mister consistant for you.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#45 » by ElCapitan01Jax » Fri Aug 6, 2010 5:16 am

SWEDD523 wrote:I'm guessing you didn't become a fan of the Cats until Jack came to town?


yeh ur right.If the Cats are over 500 at the break and hes puttin up the stats I told u he would he better be an all star or Im really gona start believeing theres a conspiracy with Stern and Jack from his previous incidents
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#46 » by fatlever » Fri Aug 6, 2010 4:17 pm

i think jax has a good shot at making the all-star team IF we are over .500 and IF his stats are, on the surface, better than crash's. crash caught everyone's attention last season with his eye popping rebounding numbers. now crash has broken the seal on the all-star game, which always makes it easier to get back. the bobcats wont get 2 players in unless we are dominating, so jax has to prove to coaches/stern/voters that he deserves it more than crash. voters look at wins and basic stats.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#47 » by BigSlam » Fri Aug 6, 2010 8:46 pm

Battery wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm not sure I would call someone who is a career 41.9% shooter from the floor who has never averaged 45% or more from the floor in a single season over a 12 or so year career as an "offensive weapon".



Of course you wouldn't. Anyone who looks at stats to justify a players worth is not looking at the entire picture. This isn't baseball.

Dude - you know he has a PER of 15.69.................right?!?!?!
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#48 » by Battery » Fri Aug 6, 2010 10:29 pm

BigSlam wrote:
Battery wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I'm not sure I would call someone who is a career 41.9% shooter from the floor who has never averaged 45% or more from the floor in a single season over a 12 or so year career as an "offensive weapon".



Of course you wouldn't. Anyone who looks at stats to justify a players worth is not looking at the entire picture. This isn't baseball.

Dude - you know he has a PER of 15.69.................right?!?!?!



And he has a 81.06 on the BEM. Bet you didn't know that!
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#49 » by ElCapitan01Jax » Sat Aug 7, 2010 5:22 pm

Jack and Crash both all stars for 2011.How bout that and the Cats win 46 games. :lol:
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#50 » by danielektropunk » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:20 am

gerald wallace i love him!!!
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#51 » by DY_nasty » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:49 pm

I'd rather Crash as a #2 guy than Jax as a #1.

That counts as an answer right?
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#52 » by ajbry » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:52 pm

That makes no sense.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#53 » by DY_nasty » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:24 pm

ajbry wrote:That makes no sense.

I know :lol:

Stephen Jackson as the #1 guy is never going to win anything, and he does too much crazy stuff to be the be anyone's sidekick. Gerald Wallace should never be the #1 guy - but he could be a legit #2 on a contending team and do a hell of a job.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#54 » by realfung » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:09 pm

i don't know if Crash is a franchise player, but Jax is not for sure and he is at the end of his prime.

You tell me please.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#55 » by Marvel » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:13 am

Crash is the obvious answer here.He does have an annoying tendency at running too hard,jumping at pump fakes(damn how many times did he fall for Pietrus again) to close out shooters, but you can take that with a grain of salt ,when you take into consideration the other amazing things he brings every night to win games.
Jax TOs,poor shot selction hurt him just as much.I'd take Crash because he doesn't kill us like Jax does with his TOs and shot selection.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#56 » by D21 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:28 am

ElCapitan01Jax wrote:I still dont understand how Crash was nominated over Jax on the all star team given his impact of what he made on the team since the trade

Maybe because of their Efficiency.
Not saying they used it to select the players, but nearly all the selected players were in teams in the run for playoffs, but more were leaders in Eff in each positions.
Don't remember the Eff at that time, but it was certainly almost the same at the end of regular season, and Wallace got more than 22.7 (6th in the East), while Jackson got only 16.9 (24th in the East).

Jaruff wrote:If we don't trade for him we don't make the playoffs

If you don't make the trade, but has Bell healthy and stay the same team than the previous season, you certainly still make the playoffs. Less offensive weapon, and maybe not better, but you would have made the playoffs. Once Bell and Diaw came the previous season, you turned to be a .500 team and playoffs contender.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#57 » by DY_nasty » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:33 am

D21 wrote:If you don't make the trade, but has Bell healthy and stay the same team than the previous season, you certainly still make the playoffs. Less offensive weapon, and maybe not better, but you would have made the playoffs. Once Bell and Diaw came the previous season, you turned to be a .500 team and playoffs contender.

Don't know about that. We were 3-8 before Jackson came in. And even with his added scoring, the Bobcats were near the bottom of the league in PPG. Jackson is arguably a top 5 shooting guard in the NBA right now.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#58 » by SKR » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:23 am

I know everybody here loves and enjoys Crash, but come on, Jack is the better player.
And the way the complement each other is lovely to watch.
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Re: Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace? 

Post#59 » by Bassman » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:01 pm

SKR wrote:I know everybody here loves and enjoys Crash, but come on, Jack is the better player.
And the way the complement each other is lovely to watch.


Indeed, the best part of getting Jax here is how well these guys have formed a dynamic duo. It's why getting a player with a legit post game was so critical to getting us to the next level (and why I sighed when Jefferson was dealt to Utah). If we could still get a 5 with that post-up threat and couple that with a quality PG...oh my!
I continue to wait...and hope...for the return to Hornet's glory.

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