Best & Worst Moves This Offseason?

[Mystical Apples]

After the Vonleh/Cody debates from recent days (which I helped agitate) I've come to a conclusion the Cody v. Vonleh trade was a false dilemma. I think the FO wanted to move *both* players for the right packages. Here's why:

- the team wants shooting, passing, and scoring. Trading just Vonleh leaves a starting 5 with shooting deficiencies.
- The team wants to win now. Vonleh is still a work in progress.
- the FO seemed infatuated with Kaminsky for skills Cody/Vonleh don't currently posses
- Cody has been on the trading block multiple times in the last 6 months
- both players were allegedly being shopped for a wing who can shoot
- We know they prioritized 2 wings because even with Batum the FO targeted Belinelli in FA
- The team did not extend a QO to Biyombo but that was *after* actively shopping Cody/Vonleh

So under this scenario the roster would have looked something like:

Starters: Kemba, Batum, Rudy Gay (or player X for Cody), Kaminsky, AL
Rotation: MKG, Lin (or equivalent), Hawes, Biyombo

MKG could also start at 3 or small lineup. Marvin was included in Cody trade to match salaries

[Bassman]

Vonleh is still all potential at this point. It's rediculous to me that so many of you think it's a given he will develop into a star player, yet give no credit whatsoever to guys that are already producing. You're projecting onto Vonleh what you want on this roster - a star player. If it was so obvious he wouldn't have dropped to the 9th selection and would have had a more impressive freshman season at Indiana. It's not obvious at all he will become a star player so stop being disingenuous by acting like it's a foregone conclusion.

My discussion points were not that Noah would be a star; I said he had more star potential than anyone. That is based on his physical size, measurable, skill set and evident examples (very limited) from game action.

[yosemiteben]

This is a total cop out. Coaches and executives are wrong about players all the time and just the fact that someone is in a position to make that judgement doesn't mean they have good judgement on these things. People tried to make this same argument when Clifford gave Biz's rotation spot to Maxiell.

I didn't argue anything about their judgment, I was just pointing out that Bassman left the coaching staff's in person experience out of his body of evidence that we can judge Vonleh by. I guarantee you that the staff took their perception of Vonleh's ability to understand and execute their game plan in practice into consideration when they judged his value.

Maybe they were totally wrong. I wasn't arguing otherwise.

[BeesWax]

This is a total cop out. Coaches and executives are wrong about players all the time and just the fact that someone is in a position to make that judgement doesn't mean they have good judgement on these things. People tried to make this same argument when Clifford gave Biz's rotation spot to Maxiell.

I didn't argue anything about their judgment, I was just pointing out that Bassman left the coaching staff's in person experience out of his body of evidence that we can judge Vonleh by. I guarantee you that the staff took their perception of Vonleh's ability to understand and execute their game plan in practice into consideration when they judged his value.

Maybe they were totally wrong. I wasn't arguing otherwise.

Well the staff has certainly shown the ability to develop a good game plan and develop talent so obviously the one that needed to go was Vonleh as opposed to the moron and his crew. How can someone be held to not figuring out a game plan when we never had one? Our offense was a complete mess no matter who played and our defense was a complete mess without MKG. Neither of those things are very good for the staff.

[Braggins]

I enjoy JDM3's relentlessness when I'm on the same side of the argument as he is.

[catch20two]

I enjoy JDM3's relentlessness when I'm on the same side of the argument as he is.

Lol. He's the great debater. I learned that I don't want it with him and try to keep my comments about Marv and PJ to myself.

[fatlever]

I enjoy JDM3's relentlessness when I'm on the same side of the argument as he is.

I don't know what that feels like.

[Bassman]

This is a total cop out. Coaches and executives are wrong about players all the time and just the fact that someone is in a position to make that judgement doesn't mean they have good judgement on these things. People tried to make this same argument when Clifford gave Biz's rotation spot to Maxiell.

I didn't argue anything about their judgment, I was just pointing out that Bassman left the coaching staff's in person experience out of his body of evidence that we can judge Vonleh by. I guarantee you that the staff took their perception of Vonleh's ability to understand and execute their game plan in practice into consideration when they judged his value.

Maybe they were totally wrong. I wasn't arguing otherwise.

Indeed, my implication was that the staff did see Noah practice, saw the potential along with the miscues, but refused to let him gain experience via playing time. Their objective was to somehow get back to the playoffs, and Cliff wasn't about to risk anything with a newbie. But, they put their faith in the relics they brought in versus giving valuable time to their rookie prodigy. Cho and Cliff were in "win now" mode last year, which is why they panicked when McBob left and signed Marvin to that horrible deal. Then they took a gamble on Lance and lost big. Signing Roberts was another poor move. So in summation, dealing Noah was, in my mind, their worst move this offseason.

[ChokeFasncists]

Doesn't seem like there's any news on whether Cho didn't want Biyombo or he didn't want to stay?

[Chapelchilla]

A lot of folks seem to think that Frank being mediocre at best is a given. I don't agree with that at all. I think he is going to be a good nba player for long time. He may not get the minutes immediately to show highly in ROY votes but he is very unlikely to be a bust or non-factor in 3 years. The guy has a valuable and rare skill as a 7 foot shooter, decent moves, a strong work effect and is a proven winner. It's going to translate.

I wrote the above last fall before the season started. Cant say I was wrong.......

[Braggins]

Bad - Not retaining Biz
Good - everything else