Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[PG13]

OK, lets get this thread back in the positive. I really don't want to lock this thread again.

One quick thought about the projected Hornets wins last summer. The media predicted the Hornets as a 30-35 win team (some worse) was always a massive joke and in no way a true indication of the team's real expected wins. The Hornets won 33 games in 2014-15 and that was a "worst case scenario" season. MKG missed 27 games, Kemba missed 20 games (and played the 2nd half of the season hurt), Jefferson missed 21 games (and played the entire season hurt) and Zeller missed 20 games. There was some ridiculous stat that year that showed that Kemba, MKG and Jefferson only played like 10 games together that season (I cant remember exact number, but it was low). On top of all the injuries, it took the Hornets 30 games to realize Lance was awful and destroying the starting lineup. After Lance was benched and before the injuries to Kemba, MKG and Cody, the Hornets actually won a lot of games and were about 1 games away from .500 in mid January and climbing, while Kemba was playing out of his mind. Then Kemba got hurt, then MKG, then Cody. If remotely healthy the Hornets easily make the playoffs in 2014-15. So, main point being, the projection last year that showed Hornets as a 30-35 win team were just bad and that's not even adding in the expected wins that Batum and Lin would bring.

So, yes, Lin certainly helped the Hornets last year, but that team should have always been considered a playoff team heading into the summer. Anything else is just lazy.

Not going to disagree with you however the hornets roster the previous playoff season was not indicative of a perennial playoff team. Injuries are a part of the sport which is why having Lin on the team was so important. Why did the team sign Lance? Because they needed to improve the roster to get better.

And making the eastern playoffs 2 years ago was easier than this past season.

Batum was a trade. Sure Batum is a better player than Henderson but you have to mitigate Batum impact with loss of Henderson i.e. playing PJ due to MKG injury. Lin was an after thought after LA and a 4M contract. I listened to nba radio before the season began and very few thought charlotte had a chance. Remember Chicago imploded and they were supposed to challenge Cleveland. Milwaukee and Washington were expected to make the playoffs.

Great point about it being easier to make the eastern playoffs 2 years ago. The east used to be called the leastern conference. The east is so much more competitive now. which sadly also means it'll be tough for the Nets to get out of the bottom three. Hopefully Kenny Atkinson can find a way to develop the players fast.

[reelsgm]

Earlier made a tongue-in-cheek comment before free agency that even if Lin signed with another team that Marvin could camp out at Lin's house with a 6-pack to pull a DeAndre Jordan on Lin before moratorium ends July 7.

Never expected that Lin would actually be doing the exact converse, trying to recruit Marve to the NETs.

Certainly Lin has left an enormous hole on the bench and with the number of times Marve hit huge momentum changing 3s to turn games - blows another crater hole on the starting unit.

[bricking_2016]

First and foremost, I'm going to disclose I'm a Lin fan (LoF) as I mentioned before. Having said that, I want to thank Charlotte fans and community for being tolerant of Lin here and in other forums. Of the 3 forums I visit - here, AtTheHive, and on Reddit, all the Charlotte fans are supportive of Lin and the LoH (Lin only Haters) are far and few. The Charlotte Hornet community is leaps and bounds better than ClutchFans which today has haters and trolls (LoH) that get a kick out of degrading Lin and the naive Lin Fans that fall for those trolls (some of those Lin fans may be trolls too).

I also want to say Charlotte plays basketball the right way. Everybody, even Kemba at this point, has a team first mentality. There doesn't seem to be an ego problem in Charlotte yet and because of this, the ball movement in Charlotte is very good. Charlotte is a team to cheer for and I look forward to Charlotte's success in the next season!

Now on to Lin. I think Lin wants to win. But I think Lin wants to win as a starter. The problem with Lin's career is that he has struggled to maintain a starting position. In Lin's second year, it hurt him when he lost his starting role to Beverly. Then it got even worse for him with Byron Scott at the Lakers, culminating with Lin on the bench and even a DNP for one game, even though Lin was healthy. The most humiliating time for Lin was his DNP, playing behind Ronnie Price, despite the fact that Lin was healthy for the one game DNP. Lin said he didn't like his losing season with the Lakers and that's why he looked for "fit" over salary for his next role which became the Charlotte Hornets.

I was mildly surprised that Lin chose the Nets because the Nets are projected to be a bottom feeder in this upcoming season and Lin mentioned he didn't enjoy playing on losing teams like the Lakers. But if you look at the salary Lin was paid, and the time it took him to accept the offer (given the outrageous salaries offered in free agency this year), it paints a picture of why Lin chose the Nets' offer.

First and foremost, Lin wants to win as a starter. To get on a winning team as a starter, you have to become a starter first. No winning team wants Lin as a starter because they already have a starting PG that they are currently happy with. The only teams that would take Lin are teams like the Nets. The exception was Dallas last year but that fell apart after DeAndre Jordan did a 180 on the Mavericks. From what I understand, Lin was in contention to start for Dallas because he was willing to accept a low salary and Dallas made Lin wait for DeAndre Jordan. By the time DeAndre Jordan did his 180 on Dallas, time had passed in the free agency market with PG spots being filled up by other teams, and as a result, there were less offers for Lin on the table. Lin knew he couldn't get a starting role so he went for "fit" next. Clifford and Cho sold him on "fit" in Charlotte, Lin turned out to be a great fit in Charlotte, and the rest as we know is history.

Given everything that happened in free agency last year, it explains why Lin snapped at the first opportunity to get a starting position and to re-unite with Kenny Atkinson. There were rumors that Lin could get as much as 16 million per year for multiple years - this is not a surprise given the signings so far such as the Mosgov contract or the Solomon Hill contract. We now see Lin settled for 12 million. I'm going to guess that Lin didn't push the Nets too hard for a higher salary. Lin stayed true to his word that fit and starting was more important to him than money, provided the money was reasonable. I think the Nets offer of 12 million for 3 years is definitely on the lower end (compared to Mosgov and Solomon Hill) but still reasonable for a starter position. I'm also going to guess that Lin accepted 12 million because Rondo was in competition for the starting PG job so Lin may have "greased" the deal to get his starting job by lowering his salary to outbid Rondo for the job. The other reason why Lin accepted the offer so quickly is because he believes the Nets will be a good fit for him with Kenny Atkinson as coach. Lin is a confidence player and after his relationship with Byron Scott (and even Kevin Mchale to a certain extent), Lin wants a coach that believes in him. This was Clifford's main selling point to Lin and a reason why Lin enjoyed his time in Charlotte so much.

I'm not sure if Charlotte was able to match the salary offered by the Nets. But even if Charlotte could match it, it doesn't matter because Lin wants to start. Also, I want to point out that it's unlikely Lin would average his 27 or so minutes next season, with a healthy Charlotte squad. When MKV came back from injury, and everybody was healthy, Lin had games where he was in game for as low as 15 minutes. In my opinion, I think Lin believes he can still improve at his age; the problem is, to improve further, you need playing time. The writing on the wall is that next year, if Charlotte is healthy, Lin knew his minutes would be cut. That probably factored into Lin's decision as well.

My guess is, Lin wants to prove he can be a starter first. If he can do that and he plays well with the Nets, then within 2 or 3 years time, if the Nets aren't competitive, I think Lin will look for a more competitive team to start with. This can also explain why Lin negotiated for a player option on his 3rd year - it explains why he took the lower salary of 12 million, possibly as a trade off for having a player option on the 3rd year of the contract.

And that is my 2 cents on why Lin took the offer with the Nets.

[JMAC3]

First and foremost, I'm going to disclose I'm a Lin fan (LoF) as I mentioned before. Having said that, I want to thank Charlotte fans and community for being tolerant of Lin here and in other forums. Of the 3 forums I visit - here, AtTheHive, and on Reddit, all the Charlotte fans are supportive of Lin and the LoH (Lin only Haters) are far and few. The Charlotte Hornet community is leaps and bounds better than ClutchFans which today has haters and trolls (LoH) that get a kick out of degrading Lin and the naive Lin Fans that fall for those trolls (some of those Lin fans may be trolls too).

I also want to say Charlotte plays basketball the right way. Everybody, even Kemba at this point, has a team first mentality. There doesn't seem to be an ego problem in Charlotte yet and because of this, the ball movement in Charlotte is very good. Charlotte is a team to cheer for and I look forward to Charlotte's success in the next season!

Now on to Lin. I think Lin wants to win. But I think Lin wants to win as a starter. The problem with Lin's career is that he has struggled to maintain a starting position. In Lin's second year, it hurt him when he lost his starting role to Beverly. Then it got even worse for him with Byron Scott at the Lakers, culminating with Lin on the bench and even a DNP for one game, even though Lin was healthy. The most humiliating time for Lin was his DNP, playing behind Ronnie Price, despite the fact that Lin was healthy for the one game DNP. Lin said he didn't like his losing season with the Lakers and that's why he looked for "fit" over salary for his next role which became the Charlotte Hornets.

I was mildly surprised that Lin chose the Nets because the Nets are projected to be a bottom feeder in this upcoming season and Lin mentioned he didn't enjoy playing on losing teams like the Lakers. But if you look at the salary Lin was paid, and the time it took him to accept the offer (given the outrageous salaries offered in free agency this year), it paints a picture of why Lin chose the Nets' offer.

First and foremost, Lin wants to win as a starter. To get on a winning team as a starter, you have to become a starter first. No winning team wants Lin as a starter because they already have a starting PG that they are currently happy with. The only teams that would take Lin are teams like the Nets. The exception was Dallas last year but that fell apart after DeAndre Jordan did a 180 on the Mavericks. From what I understand, Lin was in contention to start for Dallas because he was willing to accept a low salary and Dallas made Lin wait for DeAndre Jordan. By the time DeAndre Jordan did his 180 on Dallas, time had passed in the free agency market with PG spots being filled up by other teams, and as a result, there were less offers for Lin on the table. Lin knew he couldn't get a starting role so he went for "fit" next. Clifford and Cho sold him on "fit" in Charlotte, Lin turned out to be a great fit in Charlotte, and the rest as we know is history.

Given everything that happened in free agency last year, it explains why Lin snapped at the first opportunity to get a starting position and to re-unite with Kenny Atkinson. There were rumors that Lin could get as much as 16 million per year for multiple years - this is not a surprise given the signings so far such as the Mosgov contract or the Solomon Hill contract. We now see Lin settled for 12 million. I'm going to guess that Lin didn't push the Nets too hard for a higher salary. Lin stayed true to his word that fit and starting was more important to him than money, provided the money was reasonable. I think the Nets offer of 12 million for 3 years is definitely on the lower end (compared to Mosgov and Solomon Hill) but still reasonable for a starter position. The other reason why Lin accepted the offer so quickly is because he believes the Nets will be a good fit for him with Kenny Atkinson as coach. Lin is a confidence player and after his relationship with Byron Scott (and even Kevin Mchale to a certain extent), Lin wants a coach that believes in him. This was Clifford's main selling point to Lin and a reason why Lin enjoyed his time in Charlotte so much.

I'm not sure if Charlotte was able to match the salary offered by the Nets. But even if Charlotte could match it, it doesn't matter because Lin wants to start. Also, I want to point out that it's unlikely Lin would average his 27 or so minutes next season, with a healthy Charlotte squad. When MKV came back from injury, and everybody was healthy, Lin had games where he was in game for as low as 15 minutes. In my opinion, I think Lin believes he can still improve at his age; the problem is, to improve further, you need playing time. The writing on the wall is that next year, if Charlotte is healthy, Lin knew his minutes would be cut. That probably factored into Lin's decision as well.

My guess is, Lin wants to prove he can be a starter first. If he can do that and he plays well with the Nets, then within 2 or 3 years time, if the Nets aren't competitive, I think Lin will look for a more competitive team to start with. This can also explain why Lin negotiated for a player option on his 3rd year - it explains why he took the lower salary of 12 million, possibly as a trade off for having a player option on the 3rd year of the contract.

And that is my 2 cents on why Lin took the offer with the Nets.

Who are you? Hahaha















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[Kswiss]

I think Lin's decision came down to four things that Charlotte couldn't necessarily offer (in order of importance)

1) a starting PG spot with a guarantee of consistent high minutes and key role
2) more money on a longer deal
3) better complementary talent for him to play with (no offense to Cody/Hawes)
4) A bigger market to showcase his game to possibly make an all-star push/build brand

[fatlever]

It has come time to lock the Lin thread. Normally we would not lock a former player thread, but Lin is a special case. With a fanbase as large as Lin's, leaving this thread open runs the risk of it turning into a subforum, similar to what we saw at times last year, or worse, a place for trolling by both sides to occur.

I think both Lin fans and Hornets fans have had a chance to say thank you, good luck and good bye.

I hope that many of the Lin fans will stick around and continue to support the Hornets and this fan community by contributing to the other threads on this board.

Be nice and respectful to the Nets mods and their long time fans as you begin to post on their board.

Once again, thank you to Jeremy Lin for being a great team mate and role model and a solid addition to the Hornets family last year. He will be missed.

Thanks again to many of the Lin posters who behaved with class and respect last year.