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Who should start while nic is out?

Moderators: fatlever, JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben

?

Lamb
29
78%
Monk
7
19%
Someone else.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 37

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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#41 » by Snidely FC » Sat Oct 7, 2017 7:17 pm

316Hornets wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
316Hornets wrote:I'm not seeing a big difference with spacing. What type of spacing was Batum giving compared to Lamb? Batum shot 33% from 3 and Lamb shot 28% last season. That's not much of a difference and Lamb didn't have the benefit of playing next to a playmaker like Kemba.

Lamb's also a spectacular ball handler that can cause defenses to rotate leaving better match-ups for MKG or Marvin to take advantage. MKG showed he could knock down the mid-range jumper last season and Marvin is still a threat from 3. Dwight has already showed he's not afraid to launch a few from deep either. The biggest issue I see if whether Dwight will be okay with Lamb taking on a bigger scoring load than Batum would. This means less touches for Dwight, so we'll see how he handles it.

Disregarding the fact that 5% is quite big. People know Nic is a good shooter though. His shot selection can be questionable and his tendency to look for contact on 3s drives down his 3P% quite a bit when he doesn't get it. You have to defend Batum from 3. In years past, Lamb just goes ice cold or gets hot from deep without much in between, and Lamb doesn't make the 3 a big part of his game.

That's like comparing Gerald Henderson to Kobe Bryant in terms of spacing, they both shoot about the same from deep but it's only because of shot selection. Kobe sees wayyyyy more defensive attention than Henderson for obvious reasons. Of course this is an extreme example and the difference between Lamb and Nic isn't that big, but you see where I'm getting at.


I get what you're saying, but Lamb was out there as a 1 man show last season playing with guys like Miles Plumlee, Christian Wood, etc. You think he's not going to get better looks from 3 with an actual post presence down low.

His effective field goal percentage is also better than Batum in almost every category. Teams are going to have to double team him when he has the ball. He is that good. His ball handling is amazing too man. He's able to drive to the basket and dribble around in traffic no problem. He'll disrupt defenses a lot more than 33% 3 pointer Batum.

Batum averaged 6 assists per game last year. He made Cody Zeller a better player via pnr and we needed Nic to perform the same magic with Dwight this year. I'm not sure another player on this team getting hurt could be as disastrous from the standpoint of incorporating Dwight.

Does anybody remember last fall, Lamb started out similarly hot?? Even made a couple of 3s, and we a were all like, woah he's breaking out! Guess what, he shot 28% from 3 last season, NOT acceptable for a SG in today's NBA. But you can't just look at 3 point shooting.

Lamb averages 1 assist per game. Lamb holds the ball and creates baskets for himself off the dribble - you can ignore that **** if he's meant to juice a 2nd team offense, but the starting 5 needs 3, D & playmaking (based on Cliff's avowal to play 4 out 1 in), Lamb's least skills.

I'd slide MKG & Marv to SG/SF respectively and start Frank at PF.

and if it came down to it I'd start Graham ahead of Lamb.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#42 » by TheKingofSting » Sat Oct 7, 2017 8:00 pm

Probably Lamb. I just hope Monk gets 20 minutes per game.


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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#43 » by yosemiteben » Sat Oct 7, 2017 8:45 pm

More important to this discussion is Kemba's C&S game, which may disappear if he's playing next to four guys that can't set him up.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#44 » by LofJ » Sat Oct 7, 2017 9:20 pm

Our offense isn't going to be as good without Batum, there's no way around that. The focus should be on making up the difference defensively and the boards.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#45 » by HoopsMalone » Sat Oct 7, 2017 10:19 pm

LofJ wrote:Our offense isn't going to be as good without Batum, there's no way around that. The focus should be on making up the difference defensively and the boards.


I completely disagree. The defense and rebounding should be very good. But you can't win games without a top ~10-12 offense. We need to focus 100% on replacing his offense to the best of our ability.

Our defense/rebounding simply can not improve enough to net the difference to over come a bottom half offense.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#46 » by Mystical Apples » Sat Oct 7, 2017 11:16 pm

Not sure I'd name a "starter." I'd leave it fluid depending on matchups and lineup fit which hasn't even been sorted out yet. Forced to choose, I'd probably balance both units by starting Graham and Frank with Marvin coming off the bench.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#47 » by 316Hornets » Sun Oct 8, 2017 3:18 am

Snidely FC wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Disregarding the fact that 5% is quite big. People know Nic is a good shooter though. His shot selection can be questionable and his tendency to look for contact on 3s drives down his 3P% quite a bit when he doesn't get it. You have to defend Batum from 3. In years past, Lamb just goes ice cold or gets hot from deep without much in between, and Lamb doesn't make the 3 a big part of his game.

That's like comparing Gerald Henderson to Kobe Bryant in terms of spacing, they both shoot about the same from deep but it's only because of shot selection. Kobe sees wayyyyy more defensive attention than Henderson for obvious reasons. Of course this is an extreme example and the difference between Lamb and Nic isn't that big, but you see where I'm getting at.


I get what you're saying, but Lamb was out there as a 1 man show last season playing with guys like Miles Plumlee, Christian Wood, etc. You think he's not going to get better looks from 3 with an actual post presence down low.

His effective field goal percentage is also better than Batum in almost every category. Teams are going to have to double team him when he has the ball. He is that good. His ball handling is amazing too man. He's able to drive to the basket and dribble around in traffic no problem. He'll disrupt defenses a lot more than 33% 3 pointer Batum.

Batum averaged 6 assists per game last year. He made Cody Zeller a better player via pnr and we needed Nic to perform the same magic with Dwight this year. I'm not sure another player on this team getting hurt could be as disastrous from the standpoint of incorporating Dwight.

Does anybody remember last fall, Lamb started out similarly hot?? Even made a couple of 3s, and we a were all like, woah he's breaking out! Guess what, he shot 28% from 3 last season, NOT acceptable for a SG in today's NBA. But you can't just look at 3 point shooting.

Lamb averages 1 assist per game. Lamb holds the ball and creates baskets for himself off the dribble - you can ignore that **** if he's meant to juice a 2nd team offense, but the starting 5 needs 3, D & playmaking (based on Cliff's avowal to play 4 out 1 in), Lamb's least skills.

I'd slide MKG & Marv to SG/SF respectively and start Frank at PF.

and if it came down to it I'd start Graham ahead of Lamb.


I don't get your aversion to having a shot creator and maker in the starting 5? The starting 5 is already full of strong defenders. And, do we really want to keep passing Dwight the ball after his turnover madness this preseason? I think a guy that relies less on passing and more on scoring fits exactly what the starting 5 needs.

Second unit, Monk, Frank, and Zeller are just going to create match-up nightmares for a lot of other teams second units. Honestly, I think moving Batum to the 2nd unit, 6th man behind MKG, may actually make this team better.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#48 » by HoopsMalone » Sun Oct 8, 2017 3:34 am

Mystical Apples wrote:Not sure I'd name a "starter." I'd leave it fluid depending on matchups and lineup fit which hasn't even been sorted out yet. Forced to choose, I'd probably balance both units by starting Graham and Frank with Marvin coming off the bench.


What about the ridiculous numbers Frank/Zeller have put up when playing together though? Seems like that pairing offers us a ton of value...
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#49 » by Mystical Apples » Sun Oct 8, 2017 5:47 am

HoopsMalone wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:Not sure I'd name a "starter." I'd leave it fluid depending on matchups and lineup fit which hasn't even been sorted out yet. Forced to choose, I'd probably balance both units by starting Graham and Frank with Marvin coming off the bench.


What about the ridiculous numbers Frank/Zeller have put up when playing together though? Seems like that pairing offers us a ton of value...


I agree but everything that has worked for Kemba is gone. I'd start Cody too but that isn't in the cards, unfortunately.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#50 » by bravor » Sun Oct 8, 2017 9:42 am

316Hornets wrote:Image

Lamb had a higher fg% in every category except for 20-24 feet and it's not even close.


He generally played against other benches...

I like Lamb, but seriously he does not compare with Batum, even if Batum did regress last year (especially in the 4th 1/4). Batum has a better range also.
Where Lamb has a clear advantage it's for the midrange game and dribble penetration (with a nice floater). Knowing Batum can post up (2 years ago he was 50%) unlike Lamb. And i would trust him more to provoke other team's defense and get sent to the line (not from his 3's attempts baits obviously). Needless to say, he is a better playmaker even with his embarrassing turnovers.

But for my part, i would still start Lamb during Batum's recovery. With Howard anyway, you will have to rely more on someone with a midrange game, something that Graham does not have. I mean, defensively you don't really need to add one more defensive wing in the starting line up...
I have never been a fan of Graham. As nice and low risk he is, you don't expect a guy like him to step up regulary and bring more scoring. I also find him pretty overrated for his defense. Attitude can be nice, but he reminds me a lot Matthews : hustle player, but very limited against taller/physical opponents, or even guys with a good 1st step (matthews was regulary torched by most pg's in the west when he was switched coz of Lillard's limitations).

I am curious to see Bacon's potential. He knows there is an opportunity with Batum's injury, and honnestly i think the potential is higher than with Graham.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#51 » by HoopsMalone » Sun Oct 8, 2017 4:14 pm

I think you are sorely overrating Bacon simply because he hasn't had the opportunity to suck yet...
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#52 » by JDR720 » Sun Oct 8, 2017 10:36 pm

Should just sign Jeff Taylor .

He is what we need.

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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#53 » by fatlever » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:28 pm

dont count out bacon. cliff has high praise for him.
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Re: Who should start while nic is out? 

Post#54 » by Bassman » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:11 am

fatlever wrote:dont count out bacon. cliff has high praise for him.


Well Bacon certainly was there in preseason. Unfortunately he had Marvin at SF and Frank at PF, which did NOT work. Marv is no longer effective at the 3...just not quick enough. Frank looked like a rookie again.

Bacon has more size and is now a better defender than Monk. You could hear the revulsion during Cliff's post game interviews about how Monk was making some shots, but not up to par as a defender. Thankfully Monk will get a lot of PT despite his early limitations, as will Bacon.
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