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Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST

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Re: RE: Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#161 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:27 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I think it is really interesting that we were only -3 with Dwight on the floor but -10 or more with every other starter. Makes me question any explanation that focuses on Dwight as the problem.


Howard played 0 minutes without Kemba, as did Marvin. Meanwhile, the backcourt combo of Stone/Monk played 19 minutes together but only 2 with Dwight (and those 2 minutes were with Kemba).

Yet Kemba was -11 and Marv was -10. We were the least bad when Dwight was on the floor.

I am super pro ball movement and role awareness, but I have no idea how you can have watched last night and have had it validate your negative opinion of Dwight and not elicit any criticism of Frank.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#162 » by tmorgan » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:18 am

As I like some of you guys on this forum and we just played, I wanted some reactions to this idea:

Stanley Johnson actually played well in my eyes, and clearly in SVG's eyes, too. We have some other guys we can run out at the three (although Bullock was suspended), but SJ got 40 minutes despite going 0-13 from the floor.

Did any of you notice the impact he was having defensively? Not just the obvious steals, but his ability to disrupt sets with his strength and quickness.

Honestly, if anyone can appreciate SJ, it should be you guys, because you have your own (better) version in MKG.
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Re: RE: Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#163 » by Mystical Apples » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:42 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I think it is really interesting that we were only -3 with Dwight on the floor but -10 or more with every other starter. Makes me question any explanation that focuses on Dwight as the problem.


Howard played 0 minutes without Kemba, as did Marvin. Meanwhile, the backcourt combo of Stone/Monk played 19 minutes together but only 2 with Dwight (and those 2 minutes were with Kemba).

Yet Kemba was -11 and Marv was -10. We were the least bad when Dwight was on the floor.

I am super pro ball movement and role awareness, but I have no idea how you can have watched last night and have had it validate your negative opinion of Dwight and not elicit any criticism of Frank.


Not sure if you're building a strawman or simply received my post differently than intended. You cited a 1 game on/off as a reason to question any explanation, I provided a tangible reason why you shouldn't.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#164 » by amcoolio » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:56 am

tmorgan wrote:As I like some of you guys on this forum and we just played, I wanted some reactions to this idea:

Stanley Johnson actually played well in my eyes, and clearly in SVG's eyes, too. We have some other guys we can run out at the three (although Bullock was suspended), but SJ got 40 minutes despite going 0-13 from the floor.

Did any of you notice the impact he was having defensively? Not just the obvious steals, but his ability to disrupt sets with his strength and quickness.

Honestly, if anyone can appreciate SJ, it should be you guys, because you have your own (better) version in MKG.


I thought you guys played really well. Looked cohesive. SJ is no doubt a defensive monster. Reminds me of MKG's early days. I hope MKG can get back to that level.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#165 » by yosemiteben » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:01 am

Mystical Apples wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:
Howard played 0 minutes without Kemba, as did Marvin. Meanwhile, the backcourt combo of Stone/Monk played 19 minutes together but only 2 with Dwight (and those 2 minutes were with Kemba).

Yet Kemba was -11 and Marv was -10. We were the least bad when Dwight was on the floor.

I am super pro ball movement and role awareness, but I have no idea how you can have watched last night and have had it validate your negative opinion of Dwight and not elicit any criticism of Frank.


Not sure if you're building a strawman or simply received my post differently than intended. You cited a 1 game on/off as a reason to question any explanation, I provided a tangible reason why you shouldn't.


Probably just differently than intended.

I just literally don't see how you could watch last night and single out Dwight as a major part of the problem as you seem to have done. He was one of the few bright spots in my view.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#166 » by Mystical Apples » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:06 am

tmorgan wrote:As I like some of you guys on this forum and we just played, I wanted some reactions to this idea:

Stanley Johnson actually played well in my eyes, and clearly in SVG's eyes, too. We have some other guys we can run out at the three (although Bullock was suspended), but SJ got 40 minutes despite going 0-13 from the floor.

Did any of you notice the impact he was having defensively? Not just the obvious steals, but his ability to disrupt sets with his strength and quickness.

Honestly, if anyone can appreciate SJ, it should be you guys, because you have your own (better) version in MKG.


Stanley had some favorable rookie playmaking metrics I assumed were masked by a clogged offense last season, somewhat similar to Levert's passing with BKN who very quietly was a top 10 rookie. Glad a rotation spot opened up because he definitely has a feel for the game.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#167 » by Mystical Apples » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:35 am

BTW I think these 2 knuckleheads are pretty much besties which could explain their synced bricks.

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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#168 » by Benjamin Linus » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:31 am

A low-key dimension this team lacks is a small-ball four. Most teams have an option to go small at PF and Marvin & Frank are too slow-footed to defend it. Technically, MKG is our best bet, but he's still a little undersized, injury-prone, and has always been better at defending 1s and 2s than bigger 3s.

We even saw this in our 48-win playoff team when Miami played Deng at the four, who straight up torched Marvin and Frank, then returned back to his garbage self in Miami's next series.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be a defensive-minded one. An offensive 3/4 that can get hot and at least somewhat counter the points scored by guys like Tobias would even be cool.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#169 » by Hornet Mania » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:04 pm

Benjamin Linus wrote:A low-key dimension this team lacks is a small-ball four. Most teams have an option to go small at PF and Marvin & Frank are too slow-footed to defend it. Technically, MKG is our best bet, but he's still a little undersized, injury-prone, and has always been better at defending 1s and 2s than bigger 3s.

We even saw this in our 48-win playoff team when Miami played Deng at the four, who straight up torched Marvin and Frank, then returned back to his garbage self in Miami's next series.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be a defensive-minded one. An offensive 3/4 that can get hot and at least somewhat counter the points scored by guys like Tobias would even be cool.


Excellent point. We've wasted way too much development time and draft capital trying to groom tweener (or length-deficient) Centers to become "stretch fours" when the Lineup of Death trend is actually the exact opposite, it seems to have had the most success when teams converted long rangy tweener SFs into PFs. We're trying to convert from big to small(er) when the formula for success is transitioning guys from smalls to bigs.

In the end Cody became an undersized C again (for the better) and Frank is still trying to figure out how to be a PF. Marv from two years ago was our most effective "small ball 4" that I can recall, another guy who fit the SF/PF tweener archetype (and would've been adored by draftniks in 2017 for primariy for his Lineup of Death potential). If we want a stretch four we should probably find a SF with exceptional length and solid lower-body strength, not the Center-that-can-shoot archetype we've chased thus far.
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Re: Game 1: Hornets @ Pistons 7pm EST 

Post#170 » by LofJ » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:08 pm

There aren't a whole lot of decent small ball 4's to be had right now, but I'm right there with you guys. If we can't trade for one, the 2018 draft is fortunately loaded with 3/4 type players. I'd rather not have to wait an entire season to fix that need but it's better than nothing.

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