ImageImage

How would you fix this team?

Moderators: yosemiteben, BigSlam, Diop, fatlever, JDR720

User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 18,354
And1: 2,731
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#61 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 7, 2017 2:57 pm

Snidely FC wrote:desperately need to add a legit second PG
and some reliable shooting!

I’m starting to be even more for that Jordan Clarkson trade even if it is for Cody and just move Frank to backup C. We’re not going anywhere without a backup PG if every time Kemba goes to the bench everything just goes downhill.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
StitchJones
Senior
Posts: 690
And1: 214
Joined: Mar 29, 2006

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#62 » by StitchJones » Thu Dec 7, 2017 3:50 pm

You can not fix this team as currently constructed. We were all hoping this could be at least a treadmill playoff team finishing between 6-8 each year, but that is not even possible. What must happen is that we should pretty much start over. Remove Cho, and Clifford, hire a competent GM and pray to God that MJ does not mettle.
bravor
Rookie
Posts: 1,059
And1: 161
Joined: Dec 30, 2015
 

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#63 » by bravor » Thu Dec 7, 2017 3:55 pm

Cody is close to perfect for Kemba, on a team friendly contract. He is highly coachable, not a headcase, and is developing a perimeter jumper. don't need to remind his other qualities (and not just his mobility).
Howard will be traded for obvious reasons, just not when his value is so so.

So no, Hornets would be beyond dumb to trade Cody unless you can get a legit and young center in return.

There are too many wings, so if you want to improve the team, you try to sell high one of them.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 32,286
And1: 7,866
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#64 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:13 pm

Im just going to pray that Monk turns into a bonafide stud sooner rather than later.
ChiCityHoops34 wrote:RIP in peace Clippers.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 13,253
And1: 5,263
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#65 » by yosemiteben » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:50 pm

My immediate change is to play Monk and MCW together, I still don't understand why we haven't done that. I thought part of the whole point of getting MCW was because of his fit with Monk.

Second unit with Frank and Cody out - MCW, Monk, Lamb, Graham, JOB
Vanderbilt_Grad
Starter
Posts: 2,182
And1: 495
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#66 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Dec 7, 2017 5:05 pm

MCW looks for his own shot too much right now for any kind of development from Monk.
Image
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 13,253
And1: 5,263
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: RE: Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#67 » by yosemiteben » Thu Dec 7, 2017 6:41 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:MCW looks for his own shot too much right now for any kind of development from Monk.
Correctable, and even if not I don't agree that he'll develop as much on the bench as he will getting PT with MCW.
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 18,354
And1: 2,731
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#68 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:11 pm

yosemiteben wrote:My immediate change is to play Monk and MCW together, I still don't understand why we haven't done that. I thought part of the whole point of getting MCW was because of his fit with Monk.

Second unit with Frank and Cody out - MCW, Monk, Lamb, Graham, JOB

I thought that was the excuse for signing MCW as a tall defensive PG as well. So that MCW can defend the SG or the better scoring guard against other team’s 2nd units and for Monk to make up for MCW’s lack of any offense.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 13,253
And1: 5,263
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: RE: Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#69 » by yosemiteben » Thu Dec 7, 2017 7:56 pm

catch20two wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:My immediate change is to play Monk and MCW together, I still don't understand why we haven't done that. I thought part of the whole point of getting MCW was because of his fit with Monk.

Second unit with Frank and Cody out - MCW, Monk, Lamb, Graham, JOB

I thought that was the excuse for signing MCW as a tall defensive PG as well. So that MCW can defend the SG or the better scoring guard against other team’s 2nd units and for Monk to make up for MCW’s lack of any offense.
I mean doesn't that just make sense? Seems totally bizarre to me that we haven't tried it.

Looked it up and apparently Monk and MCW have played 44 minutes together in 7 games this season. Was surprised the number was that high.
User avatar
Robot Rock
Senior
Posts: 608
And1: 171
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: The 704
     

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#70 » by Robot Rock » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:31 pm

MCW needs to get cut, first and foremost. We're losing 50 games whether we bench Monk for the rest of the season or we start him/put him at sixth man. This franchise needs to put some level of emphasis on developing players instead of praying the next thing we pull out of the trash in free agency can magically return to whatever mediocrity they once enjoyed that disguised itself as success.
Cheeze
Junior
Posts: 321
And1: 72
Joined: Mar 04, 2013

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#71 » by Cheeze » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:43 pm

Couldn't help myself in joining in this discussion.

The primary issue with the Hornets isn't so much structure as it is culture. There is no culture of winning with this group. Now, all players want to win. But few will plant a flag in the dirt and say, "Losing is not an option." Jordan was one of those rare players and it's why he's the greatest player of all time. Winning requires a lack of fear in taking risks. Winning requires a will to accomplish nothing else. The Hornets don't have a culture of winning.

When was the last time we heard a Hornet player call someone out? Who is the leader of this team? Kemba is its heart and nominal leader. But who's following? Who's sold out to win? Who among that squad absolutely refuses to accept losing? And don't give me Dwight Howard. What has he sacrificed for winning? And stop taking 20 foot jumpers, you big goob!

Cho emphasizes 'fit' with his acquisitions. Maybe he should go find a few winners.

And while he's at it...move Batum to the 3, for crying out loud. I'm begging now. Lamb to the 2, MKG to the 4. And go out and find a legitimate backup point guard. Sheesh. Some things are just too obvious. Cho likes to bide his time and get value by waiting. February may be too late to make the necessary trade.

And can someone get Frank to put his big boy pants on? Once he realizes he's an alpha he'll be what he can be. And stop thinking you're a guard, Frank!

Please don't hang your shooting needs on the teenager, Silas. Bacon's not the answer, either. Charlotte needs shooting. Everyone is so focused on the team's defensive shortcomings, but the ability to put the ball in the basket shortens the game and increases efficiency. Be nice if someone can get to the rim, too, who's not named Kemba Walker. MKG tries, but it's not enough.

Again, point to the person(s) on the Hornets squad who has an undeniable will to win. It's the culture.

Skim the successful football programs in both the CFB and NFL. You'll hear over and over that the new coach/manager is successful because he's been able to change the culture. I think of Jacksonville under Tom Coughlin and Doug Marrone, and Chad Morris at SMU (he just took the job at Arkansas). Changing culture is a man's job. It ain't easy. It requires an unshakable commitment to instill a culture of winning.

Like him or hate him, Steve Clifford is a man who is unshakably committed to structure, but he's not committed to winning. Sometimes culture change comes first with the coach, not with a NEW coach who brings the culture. If Clifford wants to elevate his team, he should be completely sold out to win and do everything it takes to do it, even sacrificing his own fundamental principles. Everything, except the will to win, should be negotiable.

What would I do to fix this team? I'd change the culture of "chemistry" to a culture of winning. Everything else is window dressing until that happens.
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 49,759
And1: 6,883
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#72 » by fatlever » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:11 pm

doesn't get any clearer than this graphic. plenty of blame all-around from Cho -> Cliff for failing to find/develop a backup pg when we knew it was one of our biggest off-season priorities for two straight summers.

Image
User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 49,759
And1: 6,883
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#73 » by fatlever » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:22 pm

charlotte 29th in efg%. we have 5 of leagues worst efg% guys (greater than 200mins) mcw, bacon, monk, graham, batum
29th in offensive rebounding (clifford ball)
18th in fast break pts
26th in % of pts from 3
25th in 4th q ppg
16th in points in paint
30th in steals/game (clifford ball)
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 18,354
And1: 2,731
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#74 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 7, 2017 9:35 pm

I never expected to eat crow about MCW. There’s plenty of season left but I’ll prematurely say “I told ya so”.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
HoopsMalone
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,574
And1: 914
Joined: Aug 22, 2017
     

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#75 » by HoopsMalone » Fri Dec 8, 2017 3:15 am

catch20two wrote:I never expected to eat crow about MCW. There’s plenty of season left but I’ll prematurely say “I told ya so”.



LOL, the homerest of the homers didn't think MCW was a good signing. I was shocked he found a deal above the vet minimum.

If he would simply enter the lane as a willing passer instead of an off-balance shooter with ZERO touch he'd actually be a decent rotation player... the guy just doesn't understand who he is... or perhaps more importantly who he is NOT
I have independently confirmed this post by thinking about it and realizing that it does, in fact, make sense.
User avatar
Eoghan
RealGM
Posts: 10,659
And1: 2,523
Joined: May 20, 2009
   

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#76 » by Eoghan » Fri Dec 8, 2017 3:27 am

fatlever wrote:doesn't get any clearer than this graphic. plenty of blame all-around from Cho -> Cliff for failing to find/develop a backup pg when we knew it was one of our biggest off-season priorities for two straight summers.

Image

Oh hey, Dwight Powell. Wasn't he one of our many 2nd rounders sold for cash? Yeah...
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 18,354
And1: 2,731
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#77 » by catch20two » Fri Dec 8, 2017 3:45 am

HoopsMalone wrote:
catch20two wrote:I never expected to eat crow about MCW. There’s plenty of season left but I’ll prematurely say “I told ya so”.



LOL, the homerest of the homers didn't think MCW was a good signing. I was shocked he found a deal above the vet minimum.

If he would simply enter the lane as a willing passer instead of an off-balance shooter with ZERO touch he'd actually be a decent rotation player... the guy just doesn't understand who he is... or perhaps more importantly who he is NOT

Yosemiteben is the homerest of the homers and he thought MCW was a good signing. I’m sure he still think MCW is a good signing. I also know BigSlam liked MCW a lot too because I used to go back and forth with him about MCW over the years before we signed him.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
HoopsMalone
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,574
And1: 914
Joined: Aug 22, 2017
     

Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#78 » by HoopsMalone » Fri Dec 8, 2017 3:51 am

Eoghan wrote:
fatlever wrote:doesn't get any clearer than this graphic. plenty of blame all-around from Cho -> Cliff for failing to find/develop a backup pg when we knew it was one of our biggest off-season priorities for two straight summers.

Image

Oh hey, Dwight Powell. Wasn't he one of our many 2nd rounders sold for cash? Yeah...



Yeah he's been a monster this year too. I watch a lot of Dallas games just to root against DSJ and Powell makes you do about 8 "who was that?" double takes a game. Leaps off the screen. Great player.
I have independently confirmed this post by thinking about it and realizing that it does, in fact, make sense.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 13,253
And1: 5,263
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: RE: Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#79 » by yosemiteben » Fri Dec 8, 2017 4:42 am

catch20two wrote:
HoopsMalone wrote:
catch20two wrote:I never expected to eat crow about MCW. There’s plenty of season left but I’ll prematurely say “I told ya so”.



LOL, the homerest of the homers didn't think MCW was a good signing. I was shocked he found a deal above the vet minimum.

If he would simply enter the lane as a willing passer instead of an off-balance shooter with ZERO touch he'd actually be a decent rotation player... the guy just doesn't understand who he is... or perhaps more importantly who he is NOT

Yosemiteben is the homerest of the homers and he thought MCW was a good signing. I’m sure he still think MCW is a good signing. I also know BigSlam liked MCW a lot too because I used to go back and forth with him about MCW over the years before we signed him.
Hit me up with the other quality backup PG that was available for under $2m, I'll wait.
HoopsMalone
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,574
And1: 914
Joined: Aug 22, 2017
     

Re: RE: Re: How would you fix this team? 

Post#80 » by HoopsMalone » Fri Dec 8, 2017 4:54 am

yosemiteben wrote:
catch20two wrote:
HoopsMalone wrote:

LOL, the homerest of the homers didn't think MCW was a good signing. I was shocked he found a deal above the vet minimum.

If he would simply enter the lane as a willing passer instead of an off-balance shooter with ZERO touch he'd actually be a decent rotation player... the guy just doesn't understand who he is... or perhaps more importantly who he is NOT

Yosemiteben is the homerest of the homers and he thought MCW was a good signing. I’m sure he still think MCW is a good signing. I also know BigSlam liked MCW a lot too because I used to go back and forth with him about MCW over the years before we signed him.
Hit me up with the other quality backup PG that was available for under $2m, I'll wait.



$2.7m
I have independently confirmed this post by thinking about it and realizing that it does, in fact, make sense.

Return to Charlotte Hornets