Fake Trade Thread

[Najee12]

Ok I am not trading any picks to take back much worse players. Faried has no position in the current NBA and would be a 14th man on this team where Williams has the range to actually be useful in the modern game.

You're pretty much trading Marvin Williams for Wilson Chandler, though -- combination forwards who can score from range (although Chandler is better off the dribble). Everything else is pretty much the same in production, except Chandler will be off the books vs. paying a 33-year-old Williams $15 million in 2019-20 for 9 points per game.

Faried is still a quality rebounder who could come off the bench. He fell out of the rotation because Denver acquired Paul Millsap in free agency. I don't see how Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is better, though -- his specialty is defense and he is a worse offensive player than Faried. Both Faried and Kidd-Gilchrist are hustle Once again, it's about getting a marginal player off the books in two years vs. one year.

And no, Williams and Kidd-Gilchrist could not start for most teams in the NBA just because they start on a marginal team in Charlotte. Williams definitely would not start in Denver. Kidd-Gilchrist at most would replace Chandler (who started 71 games in Denver in 2017-18) in the starting lineup but he likely would be a reserve because of his lack of shooting.

[yosemiteben]

The team culture just seems locked into conservative choices (draft, free agency, trades, coaching and front office decisions)...

We are in the midst of completely cleaning house. We have a totally new coaching staff, massive changes to our FO, and huge turnover in our scouting department. This comment makes no sense given what has happened with this franchise in the last 60 days.

[Najee12]

We are in the midst of completely cleaning house. We have a totally new coaching staff, massive changes to our FO, and huge turnover in our scouting department. This comment makes no sense given what has happened with this franchise in the last 60 days.

It doesn't make sense because you took it out of a post regarding the culture of the Charlotte Hornets since the city got its second franchise in 2004, in an attempt to make a non-point and removing its context. The post was in response to the Hornets' lack of a draw to free agents historically because historically it's been a conservative, bland franchise. Obviously, that culture could change going forward but just because a team changes coaches and front office people doesn't mean the culture automatically will change (the Rich Cho/Steve Clifford eras were a repeat of the same culture from their predecessors).

[BeesWax]

Ok I am not trading any picks to take back much worse players. Faried has no position in the current NBA and would be a 14th man on this team where Williams has the range to actually be useful in the modern game.

You're pretty much trading Marvin Williams for Wilson Chandler, though -- combination forwards who can score from range (although Chandler is better off the dribble). Everything else is pretty much the same in production, except Chandler will be off the books vs. paying a 33-year-old Williams $15 million in 2019-20 for 9 points per game.

Faried is still a quality rebounder who could come off the bench. He fell out of the rotation because Denver acquired Paul Millsap in free agency. I don't see how Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is better, though -- his specialty is defense and he is a worse offensive player than Faried. Both Faried and Kidd-Gilchrist are hustle Once again, it's about getting a marginal player off the books in two years vs. one year.

And no, Williams and Kidd-Gilchrist could not start for most teams in the NBA just because they start on a marginal team in Charlotte. Williams definitely would not start in Denver. Kidd-Gilchrist at most would replace Chandler (who started 71 games in Denver in 2017-18) in the starting lineup but he likely would be a reserve because of his lack of shooting.

This would be a bad move for Charlotte. Faried has to play center because he can't shoot and we have 4 options that should play ahead of him in that spot right now. You need stretch 4s in this NBA and Williams and Frank are the only ones we have that can do that. It is not ideal to make our team worse fit wise and give up a pick to do it. It just doesn't work the keep Kemba when he wants to win and you give up to hard working locker room guys with no real reason since we aren't a FA destination and we already have enough coming off the books to keep Kemba when Dwight expires.

[yosemiteben]

We are in the midst of completely cleaning house. We have a totally new coaching staff, massive changes to our FO, and huge turnover in our scouting department. This comment makes no sense given what has happened with this franchise in the last 60 days.

It doesn't make sense because you took it out of a post regarding the culture of the Charlotte Hornets since the city got its second franchise in 2004, in an attempt to make a non-point and removing its context. The post was in response to the Hornets' lack of a draw to free agents historically because historically it's been a conservative, bland franchise. Obviously, that culture could change going forward but just because a team changes coaches and front office people doesn't mean the culture automatically will change (the Rich Cho/Steve Clifford eras were a repeat of the same culture from their predecessors).

This is so far off I don't know how to respond. Cliff wasn't a repeat of the same culture. Not accurate to say we are locked in to things when we do a complete cleaning of the house, and it's not accurate to act like there has been a single identity or culture since 2004.

[BlackOutBuzz]

I can't see how taking on slightly less-bad contracts are worth giving up a first for this team. I get the idea of clearing space for next offseason, signing a big FA, and then re-upping Kemba with Bird Rights. But free agents just aren't gonna sign here, so removing draft picks takes away their only shot at getting even an above average player at an affordable rate.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[SeanBobcats]

A lot of the board would probably be split on this, but now that Lonzo Ball is rumored to be available (although I don't think it's true), we should dangle Kemba in a deal that we could get him. He could be the perfect fit in the backcourt with Monk and I really think he would develop nicely with Borrego and the new staff

[LofJ]

The Spurs aren't trading Leonard to the Lakers. It's going to be the Paul George situation from last year all over again. If the Lakers want Kemba they need to offer Ingram or I'm not interested.

[316Hornets]

Pretty sure Ingram is basically untouchable. The guy is a freak and is one of the most valuable prospects in the NBA. With Ball, you have to question his shot, so he's gettable. But, is Ball much of an improvement over MCW?

[LofJ]

Pretty sure Ingram is basically untouchable. The guy is a freak and is one of the most valuable prospects in the NBA. With Ball, you have to question his shot, so he's gettable. But, is Ball much of an improvement over MCW?

Ball is a good primary ball handler, he makes things happen for other players and isn't a turnover machine. He's much better than MCW. I still don't want him on this team though. It's hard to scheme an offense around a lead guard who can't shoot in today's NBA. Ask the Magic, Bucks, Wolves, 76'ers, and possibly soon the Bulls how well that worked out for them. That said Ball has the makings of an elite passer and a good defender/rebounder, so if he can at least become an acceptable shooter like Rondo he'll have a good career.

I'd still rather we draft SGA and develop both him and Monk as primary/secondary ball handlers. And go all in on getting Ingram in Charlotte. He and Kemba have the same agent. Ingram was also born and raised in NC and was drafted by Kupchak, he would be loyal to this franchise. I'm not sure that would be the case with Ball.

[SeanBobcats]

I still believe Ball can be an ok three-point shooter. His problem is he will never be able to shoot off the dribble. His catch and shoot ability should be fine. Most rookies struggle from deep and get much better at it percentage wise as they develop and find their shot

[yosemiteben]

I didn't really keep up with LAL last season much, but if you ignore the dad drama has Ingram surpassed Ball as the more valuable prospect at this point? Didn't realize that.

[Najee12]

This is so far off I don't know how to respond. Cliff wasn't a repeat of the same culture. Not accurate to say we are locked in to things when we do a complete cleaning of the house, and it's not accurate to act like there has been a single identity or culture since 2004.

Since coming back to Charlotte, the Hornets/Bobcats franchise have been using the same playbook - choosing safe picks in the draft (namely, players with little upside), retread coaches (Larry Brown, Paul Silas, Bernie Bickerstaff) or mediocre former assistants (Steve Clifford), signing average free agent veterans to large contracts (Nicolas Batum). The team has made the playoffs three times in 13 seasons for a reason and it has a culture around the NBA of being a cheap organization not run poorly well by its front office leaders (see Richard Cho, Rod Higgins before him) and ownership (Robert Johnson, Michael Jordan).

As for the new regime, well ... here is this story where new GM Mitch Kupchak says "there is no master plan to blow up this team right now" when asked about the chances of dramatically overhauling the roster after back-to-back 36-win seasons. I would think a lottery team nearing the luxury tax with several bad contracts held by marginal players would try to do something more than watch the same train wreck.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23473399/james-borrego-new-charlotte-hornets-coach-ready-work-existing-roster

[316Hornets]

I didn't really keep up with LAL last season much, but if you ignore the dad drama has Ingram surpassed Ball as the more valuable prospect at this point? Didn't realize that.

Ingram had the same fg percent as Kemba in driving shots. He also averaged twice as many drives a game.

I'd put him near Giannis with guys you don't want attacking the post.

At 20-21 years old, the future is bright for a guy with his skillset.

[SWedd523]

I would have to seriously consider remaining a follower of the Hornets if they ever brought in Lonzo and all that family drama. That's how much I don't want Lavar anywhere near Charlotte.

[yosemiteben]

This is so far off I don't know how to respond. Cliff wasn't a repeat of the same culture. Not accurate to say we are locked in to things when we do a complete cleaning of the house, and it's not accurate to act like there has been a single identity or culture since 2004.

Since coming back to Charlotte, the Hornets/Bobcats franchise have been using the same playbook - choosing safe picks in the draft (namely, players with little upside), retread coaches (Larry Brown, Paul Silas, Bernie Bickerstaff) or mediocre former assistants (Steve Clifford), signing average free agent veterans to large contracts (Nicolas Batum). The team has made the playoffs three times in 13 seasons for a reason and it has a culture around the NBA of being a cheap organization not run poorly well by its front office leaders (see Richard Cho, Rod Higgins before him) and ownership (Robert Johnson, Michael Jordan).

As for the new regime, well ... here is this story where new GM Mitch Kupchak says "there is no master plan to blow up this team right now" when asked about the chances of dramatically overhauling the roster after back-to-back 36-win seasons. I would think a lottery team nearing the luxury tax with several bad contracts held by marginal players would try to do something more than watch the same train wreck.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23473399/james-borrego-new-charlotte-hornets-coach-ready-work-existing-roster

Like...do you think I don't know the history of this franchise? It's more nuanced than "they have had the exact same thing for 15 years - same type of roster, same coaching philosophy, same approach to FA and the draft, etc."

I don't feel like you are genuinely interested in having a nuanced discussion and I don't have the time to do it, but coming on here with the take of "you guys are awful and always have been stuck doing the exact same thing and you are locked in to keep doing that" is both ignorant of our history and of our current situation.

[Liver_Pooty]

This is so far off I don't know how to respond. Cliff wasn't a repeat of the same culture. Not accurate to say we are locked in to things when we do a complete cleaning of the house, and it's not accurate to act like there has been a single identity or culture since 2004.

Since coming back to Charlotte, the Hornets/Bobcats franchise have been using the same playbook - choosing safe picks in the draft (namely, players with little upside), retread coaches (Larry Brown, Paul Silas, Bernie Bickerstaff) or mediocre former assistants (Steve Clifford), signing average free agent veterans to large contracts (Nicolas Batum). The team has made the playoffs three times in 13 seasons for a reason and it has a culture around the NBA of being a cheap organization not run poorly well by its front office leaders (see Richard Cho, Rod Higgins before him) and ownership (Robert Johnson, Michael Jordan).

As for the new regime, well ... here is this story where new GM Mitch Kupchak says "there is no master plan to blow up this team right now" when asked about the chances of dramatically overhauling the roster after back-to-back 36-win seasons. I would think a lottery team nearing the luxury tax with several bad contracts held by marginal players would try to do something more than watch the same train wreck.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23473399/james-borrego-new-charlotte-hornets-coach-ready-work-existing-roster

Lol. This post was annoying.

[MasterIchiro]

I suspect the Sixers will take Miles, so I want to leapfrog them and work out a deal for 9. If we take Miles at 9, Sixers would take Mikal at 10, leaving Sexton to the Knicks at 11.

The Knicks would have to like Sexton as much as Mikal.

[MasterIchiro]

Pick 11 + Kaminsky

for pick 9 + Mudiay

[Braggins]

This is so far off I don't know how to respond. Cliff wasn't a repeat of the same culture. Not accurate to say we are locked in to things when we do a complete cleaning of the house, and it's not accurate to act like there has been a single identity or culture since 2004.

Since coming back to Charlotte, the Hornets/Bobcats franchise have been using the same playbook - choosing safe picks in the draft (namely, players with little upside), retread coaches (Larry Brown, Paul Silas, Bernie Bickerstaff) or mediocre former assistants (Steve Clifford), signing average free agent veterans to large contracts (Nicolas Batum). The team has made the playoffs three times in 13 seasons for a reason and it has a culture around the NBA of being a cheap organization not run poorly well by its front office leaders (see Richard Cho, Rod Higgins before him) and ownership (Robert Johnson, Michael Jordan).

As for the new regime, well ... here is this story where new GM Mitch Kupchak says "there is no master plan to blow up this team right now" when asked about the chances of dramatically overhauling the roster after back-to-back 36-win seasons. I would think a lottery team nearing the luxury tax with several bad contracts held by marginal players would try to do something more than watch the same train wreck.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23473399/james-borrego-new-charlotte-hornets-coach-ready-work-existing-roster

Like...do you think I don't know the history of this franchise? It's more nuanced than "they have had the exact same thing for 15 years - same type of roster, same coaching philosophy, same approach to FA and the draft, etc."

I don't feel like you are genuinely interested in having a nuanced discussion and I don't have the time to do it, but coming on here with the take of "you guys are awful and always have been stuck doing the exact same thing and you are locked in to keep doing that" is both ignorant of our history and of our current situation.

I don't even mind that take. I agree it lacks nuance, but I have no problem with people questioning our direction.

What I don't understand is how in the world people think trading away our first round picks is somehow the solution that gets us on the right track. Its honestly absurd. The franchise's marquee free agent signing was Al Jefferson. What do people think we are going to be able to accomplish with cap space if we gut our roster and trade away our draft picks?