GT Charlotte vs 76ers 11/17 7PM ET

[MasterIchiro]

The roster is still Cho's roster. It's not surprising JB trots out the same starting lineup with the one difference being MKG is an energy guy off the bench and Parker is the PG2 over MCW. Dwight is gone, but Cody and Willy are Cho guys.

Monk gets more PT
Miles was a strong pick
Graham is probably not PG2 until next year.

It's mostly the same team.

Cho is the one who dicked us. At least JB starts Lamb and moved the escargot to a slower position. Nic deserves to be benched. Clifford would only do that to Lamb and Monk, all while Kemba needed a #2.

[yosemiteben]

MI you were the one bragging about how this team is different now because we don't lose close games like we did with Cliff.

I don't buy that it's a roster issue. How many games have we been in this season that we should have won but for poor late game execution? I mean our roster needs improving, but even with that we should have a better record.

[MasterIchiro]

MI you were the one bragging about how this team is different now because we don't lose close games like we did with Cliff.

I don't buy that it's a roster issue. How many games have we been in this season that we should have won but for poor late game execution? I mean our roster needs improving, but even with that we should have a better record.

Clifford has a job. Where is Cho?

[yosemiteben]

Hanging out with Rob Hennigan.

[Braggins]

That's the better route. Nic dilutes the value of a pick.

Monk + a 1st + MKG. That could pry someone dope like TJ Warren. Suns would have to make Monk a PG. But Monk-Booker could be interesting

Kemba-Parker
Lamb-Bacon
Warren-Batum
Miles-Marvin
Cody-Willy

I think that trade is awful tbh. I wouldn't do MKG + Monk for Warren even if we kept the 1st. You would do that, but not give up a 1st and some 2nds to swap Batum for Hill + Korver?

I don't think you get it. I agree with the idea of moving Batum. It's not happening. The Cavs aren't taking Batum. Just because you propose moving him there, doesn't make it a good trade. It's an unrealistic trade. I'd be shocked if Kupchak can move him.

We agree on Tobias Harris. I love the idea. Again, it's not realistic. Nobody is gonna solve our problems for us. We have to solve theirs as well. What are you solving for the Cavs by robbing their capspace in a rebuild?

And you should take a second look at Warren. He's a #2. He averages 16.5 ppg. He's shooting 47% from three. He's an efficient scoring maching locked up at 11 million per for 4 years and he's 25. At some point you have to pick a player who fits Kemba's prime over the next 4 years. We'd be lucky to have Warren. He's beaking out. But Kupchak would need to solve some problems for the Suns. Namely they need a point and maybe they feel Monk-Booker is a win for them. If we have Warren, that 1st is out of the lotto. MKG is not the #2 we need. Miles and Bacon do the same things at a cheaper price and with more offense.

I asked how many picks it would take to do that Cavs Batum trade. They are full into a tank whether they like it or not and aren't doing anything productive with that cap space except using to absorb bad contracts for picks, which is exactly the point of the Batum deal. There is definitely an amount of pick action that would get them to bite on that trade. They aren't getting a pick any earlier than the 20's for Hill and Korver, so it isn't out of the question that they might take a deal for a 1st that could be as high as around 15 + some 2nds in exchange for also taking on future salary. Teams have actually been pretty stingy with 1st round picks the last couple years, so the market for those Cleveland guys might not be that hot. Its not even even certain that trade would be good for us. Korver could be washed up and we could end up throwing away a good pick for what would essentially be one year rentals of two old backups and some cap space.

Warren is a career 31% shooter from deep and hasn't been doing anything Lamb couldn't do on a tanking team outside of the 14 game sample size the stats you cited are from. Hes the same age as MKG and only a year younger than Lamb and Its questionable whether he is even much better than either of them, if at all.

Swapping MKG + Monk for Warren honestly might make us worse and you also want to give them a 1st round pick. Its possible Warren has made a leap and is actually a good player now, but I'm guessing you haven't watched many Suns game and are just basing your opinion on him off a small sample of box score stats. Im not convinced hes worth a 1st round pick by itself. Also throwing in one of our only productive players and a good prospect seems insane.

[MasterIchiro]

I think that trade is awful tbh. I wouldn't do MKG + Monk for Warren even if we kept the 1st. You would do that, but not give up a 1st and some 2nds to swap Batum for Hill + Korver?

I don't think you get it. I agree with the idea of moving Batum. It's not happening. The Cavs aren't taking Batum. Just because you propose moving him there, doesn't make it a good trade. It's an unrealistic trade. I'd be shocked if Kupchak can move him.

We agree on Tobias Harris. I love the idea. Again, it's not realistic. Nobody is gonna solve our problems for us. We have to solve theirs as well. What are you solving for the Cavs by robbing their capspace in a rebuild?

And you should take a second look at Warren. He's a #2. He averages 16.5 ppg. He's shooting 47% from three. He's an efficient scoring maching locked up at 11 million per for 4 years and he's 25. At some point you have to pick a player who fits Kemba's prime over the next 4 years. We'd be lucky to have Warren. He's beaking out. But Kupchak would need to solve some problems for the Suns. Namely they need a point and maybe they feel Monk-Booker is a win for them. If we have Warren, that 1st is out of the lotto. MKG is not the #2 we need. Miles and Bacon do the same things at a cheaper price and with more offense.

I asked how many picks it would take to do that Cavs Batum trade. They are full into a tank whether they like it or not and aren't doing anything productive with that cap space except using to absorb bad contracts for picks, which is exactly the point of the Batum deal. There is definitely an amount of pick action that would get them to bite on that trade. They aren't getting a pick any earlier than the 20's for Hill and Korver, so it isn't out of the question that they might take a deal for a 1st that could be as high as around 15 + some 2nds in exchange for also taking on future salary. Teams have actually been pretty stingy with 1st round picks the last couple years, so the market for those Cleveland guys might not be that hot. Its not even even certain that trade would be good for us. Korver could be washed up and we could end up throwing away a good pick for what would essentially be one year rentals of two old backups and some cap space.

Warren is a career 31% shooter from deep and hasn't been doing anything Lamb couldn't do on a tanking team outside of the 14 game sample size the stats you cited are from. Hes the same age as MKG and only a year younger than Lamb and Its questionable whether he is even much better than either of them, if at all.

Swapping MKG + Monk for Warren honestly might make us worse and you also want to give them a 1st round pick. Its possible Warren has made a leap and is actually a good player now, but I'm guessing you haven't watched many Suns game and are just basing your opinion on him off a small sample of box score stats. Im not convinced hes worth a 1st round pick by itself. Also throwing in one of our only productive players and a good prospect seems insane.

So we cough up firsts and get back zero long term assets to move Batum? It's not a good plan.

Warren is 17.6 and 19.6 last year. He works hard. He has a scoring touch built in. No reason to conclude he can't be more than a 31% range shooter with practice and inherent scoring ability.

So he's potentially 20 PPG next to Kemba, cheap for the 4 of 5 years of our Kemba window.

If the plan is to keep Kemba, how could you ask for more than 20 PPG, cheap for 4 years?

[Splitta]

In my opinion, the Hornets only have two reasonable options: Start Miles and MKG and make Batum and Marv bench players and hope the team improves and Kemba decides to stay which is risky. 2. Trade Kemba since his value will probably not be any higher and hopefully get young talent and draft picks. Neither option is that great and hate we are in this position.

[MasterIchiro]

Let me put it this way, if your plan is to move Batum, it ignores the need for a #2. We need any first that would be attached to Nic for a #2. And we certainly cant afford to lose a draft just to take on junk. It's counterproductive to move Nic. Unless you can get a #2 for him. Ya can't

[stinger14]

Let me put it this way, if your plan is to move Batum, it ignores the need for a #2. We need any first that would be attached to Nic for a #2. And we certainly cant afford to lose a draft just to take on junk. It's counterproductive to move Nic. Unless you can get a #2 for him. Ya can't

MI, I will give it a try but not sure it works out in reality

Hornets get - Warren and Ryan Anderson

Suns get - George Hill and Marvin Williams

Cavs get - Batum and top 10 protected 1st

Hornets get a #2 and Anderson improves rebounding and he can shoot the 3 ball well

Suns get a veteran PG in Hill to fill their need at the position and he can lead their core of young players. Marvin is another veteran leader for the young core at a cheaper price than Anderson

Cavs get a pick to help build while hoping Batum can solidify the SF position. Maybe Batum can help make up for their lack of playmaking with their young PG

[Braggins]

Warren is 17.6 and 19.6 last year. He works hard. He has a scoring touch built in. No reason to conclude he can't be more than a 31% range shooter with practice and inherent scoring ability.

So he's potentially 20 PPG next to Kemba, cheap for the 4 of 5 years of our Kemba window.

If the plan is to keep Kemba, how could you ask for more than 20 PPG, cheap for 4 years?

Warren has had a negative BPM every season until this one and hes still only at +.1 this season with the hot start. He was -1.9 last season despite the 20ppg. Hes only had one season where his VORP was better than .2 and it was a couple years ago. I'm highly skeptical that hes anywhere near being a legitimately good #2 option on a playoff team, but I haven't paid much attention to the Suns lately, so I'm not going to act like my opinion is very strong about him either way.

[MasterIchiro]

Warren is 17.6 and 19.6 last year. He works hard. He has a scoring touch built in. No reason to conclude he can't be more than a 31% range shooter with practice and inherent scoring ability.

So he's potentially 20 PPG next to Kemba, cheap for the 4 of 5 years of our Kemba window.

If the plan is to keep Kemba, how could you ask for more than 20 PPG, cheap for 4 years?

Warren has had a negative BPM every season until this one and hes still only at +.1 this season with the hot start. He was -1.9 last season despite the 20ppg. Hes only had one season where his VORP was better than .2 and it was a couple years ago. I'm highly skeptical that hes anywhere near being a legitimately good #2 option on a playoff team, but I haven't paid much attention to the Suns lately, so I'm not going to act like my opinion is very strong about him either way.

Kemba needs help. He needs a consistent scorer on the floor. Warren is a consistent scorer. Look at the crap Kemba is carrying. Like he can't elevate Warren? And I'm not looking to replace Lamb. I'm looking to bench Nic. MKG as a scorer is also no comparison.

[MasterIchiro]

Let me put it this way, if your plan is to move Batum, it ignores the need for a #2. We need any first that would be attached to Nic for a #2. And we certainly cant afford to lose a draft just to take on junk. It's counterproductive to move Nic. Unless you can get a #2 for him. Ya can't

MI, I will give it a try but not sure it works out in reality

Hornets get - Warren and Ryan Anderson

Suns get - George Hill and Marvin Williams

Cavs get - Batum and top 10 protected 1st

Hornets get a #2 and Anderson improves rebounding and he can shoot the 3 ball well

Suns get a veteran PG in Hill to fill their need at the position and he can lead their core of young players. Marvin is another veteran leader for the young core at a cheaper price than Anderson

Cavs get a pick to help build while hoping Batum can solidify the SF position. Maybe Batum can help make up for their lack of playmaking with their young PG

Suns might do it if you include Monk. They're not ready to win now with George Hill. He's a pointless piece as he is expiring. They need a PG of the future. I don't think they move Warren for Devonté. That would be ideal if we could keep Monk. I do like how we move Batum in the deal but again, a rebuilding team like the Cavs might need more than a first to take on Batum.

[Braggins]

Warren is 17.6 and 19.6 last year. He works hard. He has a scoring touch built in. No reason to conclude he can't be more than a 31% range shooter with practice and inherent scoring ability.

So he's potentially 20 PPG next to Kemba, cheap for the 4 of 5 years of our Kemba window.

If the plan is to keep Kemba, how could you ask for more than 20 PPG, cheap for 4 years?

Warren has had a negative BPM every season until this one and hes still only at +.1 this season with the hot start. He was -1.9 last season despite the 20ppg. Hes only had one season where his VORP was better than .2 and it was a couple years ago. I'm highly skeptical that hes anywhere near being a legitimately good #2 option on a playoff team, but I haven't paid much attention to the Suns lately, so I'm not going to act like my opinion is very strong about him either way.

Kemba needs help. He needs a consistent scorer on the floor. Warren is a consistent scorer. Look at the crap Kemba is carrying. Like he can't elevate Warren? And I'm not looking to replace Lamb. I'm looking to bench Nic. MKG as a scorer is also no comparison.

Being a consistent scorer in the context of a team trying to play winning basketball and make the playoffs is much different than in the context of a tanking team. The worry with Warren is that he is empty stats and would get exposed, or at least not be any better than someone like Lamb (which would still leave him nowhere near worthy of a MKG + Monk + 1st package).

[MasterIchiro]

Warren has had a negative BPM every season until this one and hes still only at +.1 this season with the hot start. He was -1.9 last season despite the 20ppg. Hes only had one season where his VORP was better than .2 and it was a couple years ago. I'm highly skeptical that hes anywhere near being a legitimately good #2 option on a playoff team, but I haven't paid much attention to the Suns lately, so I'm not going to act like my opinion is very strong about him either way.

Kemba needs help. He needs a consistent scorer on the floor. Warren is a consistent scorer. Look at the crap Kemba is carrying. Like he can't elevate Warren? And I'm not looking to replace Lamb. I'm looking to bench Nic. MKG as a scorer is also no comparison.

Being a consistent scorer in the context of a team trying to play winning basketball and make the playoffs is much different than in the context of a tanking team. The worry with Warren is that he is empty stats and would get exposed, or at least not be any better than someone like Lamb (which would still leave him nowhere near worthy of a MKG + Monk + 1st package).

Warren has been a proven scorer since college. Kemba makes everyone better.

[yosemiteben]

Warren is definitely not worth cashing in assets for IMO.

[stinger14]

Let me put it this way, if your plan is to move Batum, it ignores the need for a #2. We need any first that would be attached to Nic for a #2. And we certainly cant afford to lose a draft just to take on junk. It's counterproductive to move Nic. Unless you can get a #2 for him. Ya can't

MI, I will give it a try but not sure it works out in reality

Hornets get - Warren and Ryan Anderson

Suns get - George Hill and Marvin Williams

Cavs get - Batum and top 10 protected 1st

Hornets get a #2 and Anderson improves rebounding and he can shoot the 3 ball well

Suns get a veteran PG in Hill to fill their need at the position and he can lead their core of young players. Marvin is another veteran leader for the young core at a cheaper price than Anderson

Cavs get a pick to help build while hoping Batum can solidify the SF position. Maybe Batum can help make up for their lack of playmaking with their young PG

Suns might do it if you include Monk. They're not ready to win now with George Hill. He's a pointless piece as he is expiring. They need a PG of the future. I don't think they move Warren for Devonté. That would be ideal if we could keep Monk. I do like how we move Batum in the deal but again, a rebuilding team like the Cavs might need more than a first to take on Batum.

There is a team option on Hills contract for next year as well. I think Hill would be a great mentor on the court with their young core. He gives them time to find a long term solution while providing stability this year and next year

I may give up a 2nd or two, but no way I include Monk in this

[catch20two]

The thing with Batum is he is actually shooting a decent %. He is shooting 45% and 39% from three, that is perfectly fine but the dude has the aggressiveness of a castrated goldfish. He averages 1 more point than MKG does in 12 more minutes playing.

It’s easy to shoot decent percentages if you only shoot when you’re wide wide wide open and very occasionally even hesitate on those.

[Eoghan]

Yeah, that's more than what I'd give up for Warren, and I'm a huge State fan. He would indubitably be our 2nd best scorer but to be honest, that's not exactly rarefied air at this point. Be a more consistent scorer than Lamb or Batum, whew, what a high bar!