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2020 Off-season Discussion

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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#581 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:I think he's probably worth the full MLE. 3/30 is probably about right.



smh... He scored over 30 5 times last year and scored 40 in a game. Every team would pay him 10 million a season.

DeAnthony Melton just got paid over 8 million, he scored 20 points once last year and shot 28% from three.


Our expectations can't be the same as Lakers/Clippers where we get guys to sign with us 70 cents on the dollar, we are going to have to pay 110 cents on the dollar to get anyone to come play here. It just is what it is

Other teams' bad contracts don't justify our bad contracts. Just putting that out there.

If Rozier signed a contract this summer, he would likely get somewhere between the MLE and $12M on a 3-4 year deal, maybe pushes $15M on a 2 year deal. He's still overpaid, but I think a team desperate for perimeter shooting might take him, trading useless expirings.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#582 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:44 pm

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:I think he's probably worth the full MLE. 3/30 is probably about right.



smh... He scored over 30 5 times last year and scored 40 in a game. Every team would pay him 10 million a season.

DeAnthony Melton just got paid over 8 million, he scored 20 points once last year and shot 28% from three.


Our expectations can't be the same as Lakers/Clippers where we get guys to sign with us 70 cents on the dollar, we are going to have to pay 110 cents on the dollar to get anyone to come play here. It just is what it is


You asked what a fair deal would be for him. Also I'd rather have Melton, who is excellent on D, and 22 at 4/35 than Rozier for 3/30.


You would rather have a guy who averaged 7.5 points per game? Have a feeling if you built a team you would try to win games by a score of 70-60.

I get you are probably just trying to prove a point, but this is just a bad take man
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#583 » by driveandkick » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:45 pm

The "insider" on Hornets Planet had some interesting intel this morning. He said we loved the top three but did prefer Wiseman out of the bunch. We explored looking into trading with both MIN and GSW but both were asking for our 2021 first so nothing really ever came seriously close to happening. We were plenty happy to stay at three and take whoever was there. He said when we were on the clock we offered NYK the pick for 8 + two future firsts but they didn't really consider it.

He did say had we landed JW the Westbrook trade most likely would have been pushed through. If the options were Russ + JW or Melo + Hayward I'm absolutely beyond elated that we ended up with the latter.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#584 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:46 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:I think he's probably worth the full MLE. 3/30 is probably about right.



smh... He scored over 30 5 times last year and scored 40 in a game. Every team would pay him 10 million a season.

DeAnthony Melton just got paid over 8 million, he scored 20 points once last year and shot 28% from three.


Our expectations can't be the same as Lakers/Clippers where we get guys to sign with us 70 cents on the dollar, we are going to have to pay 110 cents on the dollar to get anyone to come play here. It just is what it is

Other teams' bad contracts don't justify our bad contracts. Just putting that out there.

If Rozier signed a contract this summer, he would likely get somewhere between the MLE and $12M on a 3-4 year deal, maybe pushes $15M on a 2 year deal. He's still overpaid, but I think a team desperate for perimeter shooting might take him, trading useless expirings.


This board..... 90% of deals are overpays in their eyes.

Unrealistic expectation will keep you upset all the time.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#585 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:01 pm

Not really value related, but Terry would have been a lot better fit for the Bucks than Augustin after the Bogdanovic deal fell through. Terry and Jrue would have been interesting together.

These value conversations bother me. I feel like people here at RealGM try to assign a neutral value to guys, when that's not really how trades work. A player's value in trade is all about what a team is willing to offer for them. Let's say that at the deadline Augustin hasn't worked out for the Bucks and they desperately want another playmaker. If they offer two first round picks for Terry then that's his value. If they offer a second in 2024 then that's his value to them. TL:DR value is influenced by other team's needs and willingness to make deals.

Edit - I do think it's fine to say what his value is to the Hornets. For example there are people on this board who would be fine with trading Terry for a 2nd and cap space. That's their perception of his value. I think the team values him more than that though.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#586 » by yosemiteben » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:25 pm

driveandkick wrote:The "insider" on Hornets Planet ...

That dude has never called a single move they've done, but has whiffed a bunch of times.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#587 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:34 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
smh... He scored over 30 5 times last year and scored 40 in a game. Every team would pay him 10 million a season.

DeAnthony Melton just got paid over 8 million, he scored 20 points once last year and shot 28% from three.


Our expectations can't be the same as Lakers/Clippers where we get guys to sign with us 70 cents on the dollar, we are going to have to pay 110 cents on the dollar to get anyone to come play here. It just is what it is


You asked what a fair deal would be for him. Also I'd rather have Melton, who is excellent on D, and 22 at 4/35 than Rozier for 3/30.


You would rather have a guy who averaged 7.5 points per game? Have a feeling if you built a team you would try to win games by a score of 70-60.

I get you are probably just trying to prove a point, but this is just a bad take man


Most people probably didn't watch much Griz last year but Melton is really good. Incredibly high feel both offensively and defensively. I don't think you can look at just ppg especially when someone only played 19 mpg.

If you look at per 36 he averaged 14/7/5/2 . Shooting efficiency was bad 40/28/77 but I think that improves. He's also 22 and a great fit next to Ja.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#588 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:41 pm

JMAC3 wrote:You would rather have a guy who averaged 7.5 points per game? Have a feeling if you built a team you would try to win games by a score of 70-60.

I get you are probably just trying to prove a point, but this is just a bad take man


I know you're not an advanced stats guy JMAC but for those who are here is a comparison between Rozier and Melton.


PIPM
Rozier -3.12
Melton 1.98

RPM
Rozier -1.0
Melton .1

BPM
Rozier -.4
Melton .3

RAPTOR
Rozier -1.8
Melton 2.47
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#589 » by amcoolio » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:45 pm

How crazy would it be if we traded Miles and Rozier for S&T Bogdanovic. Graham/Hayward/Bogdanovic/Washington/Zeller. Ball/Monk/Martin #1/Mcdaniels/Carey. Richards/Riller/Martin #2 in G-League.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#590 » by Chapelchilla » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:33 pm

amcoolio wrote:How crazy would it be if we traded Miles and Rozier for S&T Bogdanovic. Graham/Hayward/Bogdanovic/Washington/Zeller. Ball/Monk/Martin #1/Mcdaniels/Carey. Richards/Riller/Martin #2 in G-League.


Sign me up!
That would be a very nice team
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#591 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:46 pm

Harry Giles has agreed to a one-year deal with the Portland Trail Blazers
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#592 » by JMAC3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:53 pm

James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:You would rather have a guy who averaged 7.5 points per game? Have a feeling if you built a team you would try to win games by a score of 70-60.

I get you are probably just trying to prove a point, but this is just a bad take man


I know you're not an advanced stats guy JMAC but for those who are here is a comparison between Rozier and Melton.


PIPM
Rozier -3.12
Melton 1.98

RPM
Rozier -1.0
Melton .1

BPM
Rozier -.4
Melton .3

RAPTOR
Rozier -1.8
Melton 2.47


I am about advanced stats, but you can find advanced stats that show that make your point and I can find ones that make mine

Win Shares
Rozier 3
Melton 1.7

Vorp
Rozier 0.8
Melton 0.5

Given they are not super far apart, so in this case give me the guy that has better averages.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion  

Post#593 » by BlackOutBuzz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:07 pm

A Diop will soon be available.

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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#594 » by James Gatz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:20 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
James Gatz wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:You would rather have a guy who averaged 7.5 points per game? Have a feeling if you built a team you would try to win games by a score of 70-60.

I get you are probably just trying to prove a point, but this is just a bad take man


I know you're not an advanced stats guy JMAC but for those who are here is a comparison between Rozier and Melton.


PIPM
Rozier -3.12
Melton 1.98

RPM
Rozier -1.0
Melton .1

BPM
Rozier -.4
Melton .3

RAPTOR
Rozier -1.8
Melton 2.47


I am about advanced stats, but you can find advanced stats that show that make your point and I can find ones that make mine

Win Shares
Rozier 3
Melton 1.7

Vorp
Rozier 0.8
Melton 0.5

Given they are not super far apart, so in this case give me the guy that has better averages.


If you use WS/48 which makes sense since Melton played less minutes then it's .072 for Melton and .066 for Rozier. Rozier does have the better VORP tho!

My take was never that Melton was clearly a better player, but that I'd rather have him on 4/35 than Rozier on 3/58.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#595 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:08 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
driveandkick wrote:The "insider" on Hornets Planet ...

That dude has never called a single move they've done, but has whiffed a bunch of times.

I haven't been on Hornets Planet for a long time. Is this from the guy who said we were 100% drafting Devin Booker?
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#596 » by BigSlam » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:09 pm

I might be out of my mind, but I don't see what all the hype is around Bogdanovic.

What am I missing?
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#597 » by SWedd523 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 pm

BigSlam wrote:I might be out of my mind, but I don't see what all the hype is around Bogdanovic.

What am I missing?

That he's roughly half the price of Hayward
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#598 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:18 pm

Read on Twitter


And do we need a new Biz thread? The old ones in the sticky post are locked.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#599 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:20 pm

Biz will be 'challenge mode' for Lamelo.
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Re: 2020 Off-season Discussion 

Post#600 » by Braggins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:21 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I might be out of my mind, but I don't see what all the hype is around Bogdanovic.

What am I missing?

That he's roughly half the price of Hayward

Yep, healthy Hayward is clearly a better player. They are similar level as scorers, but Hayward is a better playmaker and defender by a decent amount. However, Bogs is two years younger, doesn't have injury issues, and only costs 18 mil per season compared to 30 for Hayward (39 if the Batum stretch happens).

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