Fat's PG Rankings (2/3/2014 update pg 8)

[thruthefire]

Paul
Curry
Parker
Westbrook
Wall
Irving
Lillard
Lawson
Conley
Williams
Bledsoe
Dragic
Lowry
Thomas

After that, I think you can put Kemba, Teague, Holiday, Lin, MCW, and Rubio in whatever order you want.

Oh, and I did consider prior season performance for my list.

Just curious to know, is that I. Thomas from Sacramento you have in your top 15 PG's?

Yes. He's having too good of a season to have him any lower than that.

[mrknowitall215]

Point guard is such a strong position in the NBA at the moment that if you have one that's considered top-20 you should be happy and try to upgrade at the other positions. As of right now, there are 30 point guards playing at an above average level based on Hollinger's PER scale (+15.0 PER)

[ball teacher]

The reason I personally don't have Tony Parker higher, is because he's a point guard that has never in his career averaged more than 7 assists per game. His average for his career is 6, he's had 7 assists per twice, and on top of that, he still doesn't have a great jump shot. If he wasn't playing with Tim Duncan and with that Spurs system how good of a guard would he really be? I don't think he'd be mentioned as elite. Especially with defense like this.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD3-B2pTE9g[/youtube]
or this....
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgnfRA-CR3w[/youtube]

haha, you're really something.

first off, I love that point guards have to hand out more than "ball teacher's" required 7 assists per game for them to be considered elite.

second off, if you want to make a point about somebody's poor defense, you can simply provide a link to a play on which the player was on the wrong end of an ankle breaker. does this mean that I can use the Allen Iverson crossover on MJ as evidence for Jordan being an overrated defender?

I won't even get started on the fact that legends like Dennis Johnson and Pete Maravich also didn't get past your magical seven assist mark. Or do you want to downplay their careers as well?

I didn't say Parker wasn't a very good player, I said the reason I personally don't rank him higher is because he has never been a great assist man, his career avg is for assists is 6 per game, that's not "great" for a PG imo, but again, it was just my personal opinion as to one reason why I don't have him higher. I also don't think he's a great perimeter shooter, which is another knock against him in my opinion. I don't see him as a great shooter from outside off the dribble. The guys who I ranked higher can create on their own, off a pick, they are playmakers, and they have other intangibles that I myself appreciate in a PG.

The defensive vids I posted were just for play and jokes, but then again, I've never heard Parker being considered a good defender. He's good, I just have others I personally like more. And I've never ever heard Pistol Pete being mentioned as a great assist man, all I know him for is being a flashy scoring guard with handles and slick moves, and Dennis Johnson was a overall good player as is Parker, but there's at least 5 others I'd rank above him from the 80's, no knock against him, just my opinion.

[ball teacher]

IMO these are some Elite PG's and their career numbers
Kevin Johnson avg 17 ppg 9 assts per
Stockton 13ppg 10 assts
Magic 19 ppg 12 assts
Tiny Archibald 18 ppg 7 assts
Zeke 19ppg 9 assts
Marbury 19ppg 7 assts
Payton 16ppg 6 assts (spent final 4 seasons of 16 year career on the pine and dropped his numbers)
Baron Davis 16 ppg 7 assts
Steve Nash 14 ppg 8 assts

[mrknowitall215]

IMO these are some Elite PG's and their career numbers
Kevin Johnson avg 17 ppg 9 assts per
Stockton 13ppg 10 assts
Magic 19 ppg 12 assts
Tiny Archibald 18 ppg 7 assts
Zeke 19ppg 9 assts
Marbury 19ppg 7 assts
Payton 16ppg 6 assts (spent final 4 seasons of 16 year career on the pine and dropped his numbers)
Baron Davis 16 ppg 7 assts
Steve Nash 14 ppg 8 assts

How many of those are career years that resulted in championship years? because that's the reason why the game is played. I'll say "Zeke" & "Magic", that's it. The rest of those so-called elite point guards that you named can only dream to have accomplished what Parker has, and that's three championships



...and Parker's 17 points & 6 assist per game career numbers aren't too far off based from most of your so-called elite point guards

[ball teacher]

IMO these are some Elite PG's and their career numbers
Kevin Johnson avg 17 ppg 9 assts per
Stockton 13ppg 10 assts
Magic 19 ppg 12 assts
Tiny Archibald 18 ppg 7 assts
Zeke 19ppg 9 assts
Marbury 19ppg 7 assts
Payton 16ppg 6 assts (spent final 4 seasons of 16 year career on the pine and dropped his numbers)
Baron Davis 16 ppg 7 assts
Steve Nash 14 ppg 8 assts

How many of those are career years that resulted in championship years? because that's the reason why the game is played. I'll say "Zeke" & "Magic", that's it. The rest of those so-called elite point guards that you named can only dream to have accomplished what Parker has, and that's three championships



...and Parker's 17 points & 6 assist per game career numbers aren't too far off based from most of your so-called elite point guards

OK so we're gonna go their now? So Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, George Gervin, Reggie Miller aren't elite players? Barry Sanders isn't a great elite RB? Iverson, T-Mac, Kemp, Payton weren't great? I know some of you guys like to disagree with me to disagree, but cmon man! Domonique isn't great, Webber wasn't great either. See I know the point is to win chips, but that's where elite players having great teams and coaches help. Unless were gonna argue that a elite player should be able to win even if his supporting cast is weak. I sure hope Durant gets a chip before his career ends or he'll just go down as just a good player too, same for Kevin Love

And if you wanna put Parker in the group with the guys I consider elite, cool, it's your opinion. I just said why I'm not exceptionally high on him as a top 5 player in todays game. At least I gave a reason based off valid points as opposed to just going at whoever does like him without any reasons as to why. So again, a PG who's really a shoot first guy, in the prime of his career and he is only averaging 6 assts per, and he really cant shoot from outside is a pretty good reason for me to say I don't have him in my top 5. Just respect my opinion on it and feel free to disagree. If Tony plays along time and ends up sitting the bench 2 or 3 seasons like many of the guys I posted, then we can see what those assist numbers look like, he's still in his prime and he cant get the numbers they got, so what does that tell you, but hey, it's all opinionative.

[mrknowitall215]

OK so we're gonna go their now? So Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, George Gervin, Reggie Miller aren't elite players? Barry Sanders isn't a great elite RB? Iverson, T-Mac, Kemp, Payton weren't great? I know some of you guys like to disagree with me to disagree, but cmon man! Domonique isn't great, Webber wasn't great either. See I know the point is to win chips, but that's where elite players having great teams and coaches help. Unless were gonna argue that a elite player should be able to win even if his supporting cast is weak. I sure hope Durant gets a chip before his career ends or he'll just go down as just a good player too, same for Kevin Love

I'm not dismissing the notion that a player can be elite without championships the way that you are dismissing the notion that a point guard can be elite without averaging over 7 assist. I agree that Magic, Zeke, Stockton, Tiny, Nash, & Payton were elite, but I disagree with KJ, Marbury, & Baron being elite even though they've had seldom elite years between their careers

[LamarMatic7]

IMO these are some Elite PG's and their career numbers
Kevin Johnson avg 17 ppg 9 assts per
Stockton 13ppg 10 assts
Magic 19 ppg 12 assts
Tiny Archibald 18 ppg 7 assts
Zeke 19ppg 9 assts
Marbury 19ppg 7 assts
Payton 16ppg 6 assts (spent final 4 seasons of 16 year career on the pine and dropped his numbers)
Baron Davis 16 ppg 7 assts
Steve Nash 14 ppg 8 assts

How many of those are career years that resulted in championship years? because that's the reason why the game is played. I'll say "Zeke" & "Magic", that's it. The rest of those so-called elite point guards that you named can only dream to have accomplished what Parker has, and that's three championships



...and Parker's 17 points & 6 assist per game career numbers aren't too far off based from most of your so-called elite point guards

OK so we're gonna go their now? So Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, George Gervin, Reggie Miller aren't elite players? Barry Sanders isn't a great elite RB? Iverson, T-Mac, Kemp, Payton weren't great? I know some of you guys like to disagree with me to disagree, but cmon man! Domonique isn't great, Webber wasn't great either. See I know the point is to win chips, but that's where elite players having great teams and coaches help. Unless were gonna argue that a elite player should be able to win even if his supporting cast is weak. I sure hope Durant gets a chip before his career ends or he'll just go down as just a good player too, same for Kevin Love

I think you went way over the top. There's a difference between Charles Barkley and Stephon Marbury. I think what MrKnowItAll wanted to say is that the likes of Marbury and Baron Davis were never championship title material, albeit their stats are on the same level as Parker's.

[ball teacher]

No, I'm not saying you Cant be elite, I just gave a reason as to what I see as a fault in the mans game just as sports dialogue. I don't see Tony as a great playmaker, I see him as a shoot first PG, with limited rage on his shot, I don't think he's a great defender either. I think the system he plays for has really benefit him. Hes a good player and I like him, I just think these shortcomings I listed are things that prevent him from unanimously being in many peoples top 3-5. Remember, Rose is out, Westbrook is out, Paul is out, and Williams was slowed by injury, and Nash is about done, all of these guys are usually ranked higher than Parker and for good reason.

[mrknowitall215]

Tony Parker has received MVP votes in multiple seasons. If you're willing to dismiss the notion of him being a great player, or even point guard for that matter, because of the system that he play within then you might as well write Tim Duncan off as arguably the best PF to ever play the game

[fatlever]

coming soon...

Fat's All-Time PG Rankings

[ball teacher]

coming soon...

Fat's All-Time PG Rankings

Cmon wit it Fats!

[ball teacher]

Tony Parker has received MVP votes in multiple seasons. If you're willing to dismiss the notion of him being a great player, or even point guard for that matter, because of the system that he play within then you might as well write Tim Duncan off as arguably the best PF to ever play the game

I think your debating to be debating. Parker is a very good guard, no debate from me. Im just saying what I think his defects are and why he;s not in my top 5, he's in my top 10 current though. He's even debatably elite, I would say he's borderline elite cause again, he cant shoot and his assist numbers are low for a true elite PG. Historical numbers agree with me their

[mrknowitall215]

Tony Parker has received MVP votes in multiple seasons. If you're willing to dismiss the notion of him being a great player, or even point guard for that matter, because of the system that he play within then you might as well write Tim Duncan off as arguably the best PF to ever play the game

I think your debating to be debating. Parker is a very good guard, no debate from me. Im just saying what I think his defects are and why he;s not in my top 5, he's in my top 10 current though. He's even debatably elite, I would say he's borderline elite cause again, he cant shoot and his assist numbers are low for a true elite PG. Historical numbers agree with me their

I'm not debating to be debating. I'm debating because you don't think Parker is a top-5 point guard in today's NBA. I'm debating because you don't think Parker can shoot. I have my reasons. To each his own, and that's your opinion, but me disagreeing is my opinion as well

[ball teacher]

Tony Parker has received MVP votes in multiple seasons. If you're willing to dismiss the notion of him being a great player, or even point guard for that matter, because of the system that he play within then you might as well write Tim Duncan off as arguably the best PF to ever play the game

I think your debating to be debating. Parker is a very good guard, no debate from me. Im just saying what I think his defects are and why he;s not in my top 5, he's in my top 10 current though. He's even debatably elite, I would say he's borderline elite cause again, he cant shoot and his assist numbers are low for a true elite PG. Historical numbers agree with me their

I'm not debating to be debating. I'm debating because you don't think Parker is a top-5 point guard in today's NBA. I'm debating because you don't think Parker can shoot. I have my reasons. To each his own, and that's your opinion, but me disagreeing is my opinion as well

OK that's fair enough so let's check out Parker' shooting stats. We can both assume he should have a pretty good fg% since most of his points come from shot in the paint since he uses alot of picks to get into the lane for his patented floater. He's a career 49.5% shooter from the field, which is very good imo. I dont know where I'd find stats for his perimeter shooting, so I'll use his FT% and 3pt% unless someone can find a stat showing the jump shot percentage.

For his FT%, he's a career 74% shooter, as the starting point guard, that's ok...for a big man. It isn't bad, but that should definitely be better for the PG. From 3pt range he's a career 31% shooter and just for the record, there's currently 6 players on his team who will get you more steals than he will get you, his defense could also be better.

Since I cant find the long jump shot stats, let's just go by the eye test, who do you want shooting the last shot for you if you only have time for a catch dribble and pull up jumper. Lillard or Parker, Kyrie or Parker, Paul or Parker, D Will or Parker, Kemba or Parker, Westbrook or Parker, Curry or Parker?

All I'm saying is Parker shouldnt be considered a LOCK to be in everyones' top 5, if you wanna say he is ok, I can respect it, but I personally disagree and I'm at least giving reasons as to why I dont think he is.

[LamarMatic7]

I dont know where I'd find stats for his perimeter shooting, so I'll use his FT% and 3pt% unless someone can find a stat showing the jump shot percentage.

stats.nba.com

[ball teacher]

How many of those are career years that resulted in championship years? because that's the reason why the game is played. I'll say "Zeke" & "Magic", that's it. The rest of those so-called elite point guards that you named can only dream to have accomplished what Parker has, and that's three championships



...and Parker's 17 points & 6 assist per game career numbers aren't too far off based from most of your so-called elite point guards

OK so we're gonna go their now? So Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, George Gervin, Reggie Miller aren't elite players? Barry Sanders isn't a great elite RB? Iverson, T-Mac, Kemp, Payton weren't great? I know some of you guys like to disagree with me to disagree, but cmon man! Domonique isn't great, Webber wasn't great either. See I know the point is to win chips, but that's where elite players having great teams and coaches help. Unless were gonna argue that a elite player should be able to win even if his supporting cast is weak. I sure hope Durant gets a chip before his career ends or he'll just go down as just a good player too, same for Kevin Love

I think you went way over the top. There's a difference between Charles Barkley and Stephon Marbury. I think what MrKnowItAll wanted to say is that the likes of Marbury and Baron Davis were never championship title material, albeit their stats are on the same level as Parker's.

No, that's not what he intended to say knowitall said those guys I listed may have stats but Parker has rings and he posted that big pic with the quote "that's why you play the game" meaning you play the game to get championships, not stats. We weren't talking about chips, we were talking about individual skill, you guys just changed the subject just like you mentioning Barkley and Marbury is not the point.

And you cannot say Marbury and Davis arent championship caliber. I guess you are assuming they had championship caliber teams? This is a team game and you do need a little help winning it all. If you replaced D Fisher and put in Baron Davis or Marbury, would the Lakers be worse? I guess you are saying yes since you say those guys arent championship caliber. I guess Chalmers is more championship caliber than Stockton or Kevin Johnson. I guess Robert Horry is more championship caliber than Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and George Gervin.

Tony Parker is a good player, but he has a great team that won even before he got there, he inherited a great team, put him on the Wizards, or the Pistons and see what he does for thoe teams, if he can lead a team like that to the title, then I may have to reconsider him being top 5 PG.

[LamarMatic7]

OK so we're gonna go their now? So Barkley, Ewing, Karl Malone, George Gervin, Reggie Miller aren't elite players? Barry Sanders isn't a great elite RB? Iverson, T-Mac, Kemp, Payton weren't great? I know some of you guys like to disagree with me to disagree, but cmon man! Domonique isn't great, Webber wasn't great either. See I know the point is to win chips, but that's where elite players having great teams and coaches help. Unless were gonna argue that a elite player should be able to win even if his supporting cast is weak. I sure hope Durant gets a chip before his career ends or he'll just go down as just a good player too, same for Kevin Love

I think you went way over the top. There's a difference between Charles Barkley and Stephon Marbury. I think what MrKnowItAll wanted to say is that the likes of Marbury and Baron Davis were never championship title material, albeit their stats are on the same level as Parker's.

No, that's not what he intended to say knowitall said those guys I listed may have stats but Parker has rings and he posted that big pic with the quote "that's why you play the game" meaning you play the game to get championships, not stats. We weren't talking about chips, we were talking about individual skill, you guys just changed the subject just like you mentioning Barkley and Marbury is not the point.

And you cannot say Marbury and Davis arent championship caliber. I guess you are assuming they had championship caliber teams? This is a team game and you do need a little help winning it all. If you replaced D Fisher and put in Baron Davis or Marbury, would the Lakers be worse? I guess you are saying yes since you say those guys arent championship caliber. I guess Chalmers is more championship caliber than Stockton or Kevin Johnson. I guess Robert Horry is more championship caliber than Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and George Gervin.

Tony Parker is a good player, but he has a great team that won even before he got there, he inherited a great team, put him on the Wizards, or the Pistons and see what he does for thoe teams, if he can lead a team like that to the title, then I may have to reconsider him being top 5 PG.

The thing is that it's very unlikely a prime Stephon Marbury ever ended up on the Lakers because of his ego and attitude. That's what I was trying to say.

And I think I did specifically say that there's a difference between Barkley and Marbury. Don't try and act now like I put Barkley in the same tier as him.

That wouldn't be the point, but I might add that, yes, Robert Horry is way more championship caliber than George Gervin, the all-o, no-d scorer who only went for his points, talked about himself in the third person and once in the season opener responded to a happy team-mate's "1 down, 81 left" with "No, 49 left", referring to the 50-win bonus that was proposed in the contracts of Spurs players.

[LamarMatic7]

Baron Davis isn't as bad as Marbury but there were plenty of shortcomings about him as well for me not to believe he ever could have a championship as the team's best or second best player (like Parker has).

And once again, I never said anything about Stockton, Barkley (not very serious about commitment to winning though), Malone and Gervin (already said my piece on him). On the contrary, I said that you can't put Marbury in the same sentence as Barkley, which was exactly what you did,

[fatlever]

New Update as of 2/3/14.

1 Chris Paul - Holding #1 spot despite injury
2 Steph Curry - Assists are way up, so are turnovers.
3 Tony Parker - Still playing at 75%.
4 John Wall - Huge ranking jump compared to last year
5 Russell Westbrook - Dropped to #5 while injured
6 Goran Dragic - Up 5 spots since December and on FIRE!!!
7 Ty Lawson - Avg 11 assists in January
8 Mike Conley - Also out with rolled ankle. So many injuries to PGs this year.
9 Kyle Lowry - Up 8 spots since December, should have been an All-Star.
10 Rajon Rondo - Inserted back at #10 until we see more evidence of where he is post injury.
11 Damian Lillard - Cooling off after hot start
12 Kyrie Irving - Will keep dropping as long as his team appears so disfunctional. Where is the leadership?
13 Eric Bledsoe - Drops 3 spots since injury. Doubt he will get starting PG spot from Dragic any time soon.
14 Isaiah Thomas - Halfway thru season, still has a PER at 21
15 Kemba Walker - Out injured for 1st time ever. Interesting to see how he responds once he returns.
16 Jeff Teague - Had a miserable January compared to his early season - 13ppg, 4.6apg, 37%FG
17 Jrue Holiday - Out injured, who cares?
18 Deron Williams - It’s a slow climb back to being relevant. Regaining starting job would help.
19 Michael Carter-Williams - Most improve shot selection and FG%
20 Ricky Rubio - Invisible when games are on the line. He needs to solve that problem.
21 Jeremy Lin - Coming off a triple-double with Harden out. Always better when ball is in his hands.
22 Trey Burke - Can't go much higher until he gets that FG% figured out.
23 Brandon Jennings - His style of play never leads to wins.
24 George Hill - Lost playmaking duties to Lance, now just plays defense and spots up for 3.
25 Jose Calderon - Shot 51% in December and 41% in January.
26 Reggie Jackson - Solid as a starter, still best role is 6th man.
27 Brandon Knight - Back from the dead.
28 Kendall Marshall - Another D'Antoni product? Seems to be a perfect fit for that offense.
29 Jameer Nelson - How is this guy still starting in the NBA? Time for his 2nd career as a great backup.
30 Mario Chalmers - Career high in PER this year.
31 Ramon Sessions - Much more willing passer as a starter than as a reserve.
32 DJ Augustin - Playing like a 1st round pick for the first time in 3 years. Confidence is back.
33 Greivis Vasquez - Not as big of a role in Toronto, but can still shoot and pass.
34 Darren Collison - Has been decent in Paul's absence. Good PER.
35 Shaun Livingston - Just happy to see him still playing at this level.

Just missed the cut - Jordan Crawford, Jarrett Jack, Patrick Beverly, Andre Miller, Raymond Felton, Steve Blake, Tony Wroten, Mo Williams, Norris Cole

Not ranked due to injury - Derrick Rose, Nate Robinson