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NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#101 » by LamarMatic7 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 12:32 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:If Rod Higgins had any dignity, he would step down, but I think his pride along with his bank account wouldn't agree to such demotions. Michael Jordan will have to do it himself. One would wonder though, does Higgins have some type of hold on Jordan in which he would feel like he owes him? It could be anything from loyalty of friendship to blackmail. Just something to consider

They've been friends for ages for what's it worth. Jordan wasn't one to go out with fellow NBA players often but Rod Higgins was a guy he'd have dinner with after head-to-head games as far back as the late 80s. Don't ask me from which basketball book I remember this. I've certainly read it somewhere.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#102 » by fatlever » Fri Jan 3, 2014 5:49 pm

if anyone gets fired, it will be cho. he will be made to be the scapegoat. higgins will never get fired by MJ.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#103 » by JDR720 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 7:01 pm

over the last few drafts (since Cho got here) we've drafted, Kemba-good PG but inconsistent as hell, Biz-raw as hell on offense but great defensive potential, MKG-great defensive potential but jumpshot is broke, Taylor-good 3&D player and Zeller-drafted to be stretch 4 even tho he didn't shoot at all at Indiana......we need shooters JT can not be the best shooter we've drafted over the past 3 drafts
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#104 » by mrknowitall215 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 7:06 pm

JDR720 wrote:over the last few drafts (since Cho got here) we've drafted, Kemba-good PG but inconsistent as hell, Biz-raw as hell on offense but great defensive potential, MKG-great defensive potential but jumpshot is broke, Taylor-good 3&D player and Zeller-drafted to be stretch 4 even tho he didn't shoot at all at Indiana......we need shooters JT can not be the best shooter we've drafted over the past 3 drafts


He's not. Kemba is...
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#105 » by JDR720 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 8:54 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:
JDR720 wrote:over the last few drafts (since Cho got here) we've drafted, Kemba-good PG but inconsistent as hell, Biz-raw as hell on offense but great defensive potential, MKG-great defensive potential but jumpshot is broke, Taylor-good 3&D player and Zeller-drafted to be stretch 4 even tho he didn't shoot at all at Indiana......we need shooters JT can not be the best shooter we've drafted over the past 3 drafts


He's not. Kemba is...

well that isn't saying much either
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#106 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Jan 4, 2014 5:27 pm

fatlever wrote:if anyone gets fired, it will be cho. he will be made to be the scapegoat. higgins will never get fired by MJ.


The problem is, who would you replace him with? Great GM's aren't just walking around and I would be afraid of the Bobcats internal options.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#107 » by mrknowitall215 » Mon Jan 6, 2014 12:49 am

Cho's Lettered Guidelines (reiterated)

4 C's (for what you want):
guys who COMPETE
guys with CHARACTER
guys who have CONSISTENCY
guys who COVER (play both ends of the floor).

4 S's (that you don't want) *maybe you can have one of these*
guys who are SLOW
guys who are SOFT
guys who are STUPID
guys who are SELFISH
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#108 » by Elden Payton » Mon Jan 6, 2014 1:07 am

Cho is breaching his own guidelines?
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#109 » by thruthefire » Mon Jan 6, 2014 1:14 am

**** Higgins.
Humble yourself.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#110 » by JDR720 » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:36 am

We can overpay for another teams GM or president to be our GM like the Raptors did with Masai Ujiri
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#111 » by Diop » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:44 am

JDR720 wrote:We can overpay for another teams GM or president to be our GM like the Raptors did with Masai Ujiri

but would we still have Higgins interfering?

thats the problem, while he still has that position of power its gotta be hard for a GM to freely mold this team.

Rick Bonnell (I know, I know) said that Higgins was the one who signed Sessions.

That was a good move, but still another example of who really is in charge?
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#112 » by HornetJail » Mon Jan 6, 2014 5:10 am

JDR720 wrote:We can overpay for another teams GM or president to be our GM like the Raptors did with Masai Ujiri

Or simply sacking Higgins would do the trick 5 times better. Cho is a very good GM, he's made good moves given the circumstances.
investigate Adam Silver
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#113 » by fatlever » Mon Jan 6, 2014 6:21 am

its impossible to really know what to think about cho until we have a little more transparency about the roles of cho and higgins currently.

higgins has a long enough track record with the warriors, wizards and bobcats for us to know he isnt very good at what he does.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#114 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:06 pm

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The Draft Issue

What a stinker this week was for the Bobcats. What an absolute steaming pile of dog doo doo. The team finally returned home after a dismal road trip only to drop a winnable game at home against Southeast Division rival Washington on Tuesday night. They traveled to Minnesota on Friday and get splattered on by a team that they’ve (surprisingly) owned for much of the last decade. The final bit of brown was served the next night in Chicago, a fumbled loss at the hands of a Bulls team that had just traded away its best healthy player.

The Cats currently stand at 15-23, eight games under .500 and out of the Eastern Conference top eight. Here’s the worst part: in the past few seasons, the Lottery provided a safety net for GM Rich Cho’s OKC-styled plan but this year’s pick goes to the Bulls if outside the Top 10 and the Bobcats are just talented enough to make that nightmare a reality. Perhaps more concerning is the fact that even if the Bobcats were to keep their Lottery pick, there is no guarantee Cho would draft a player of any consequence.

How We Got Here

Cho’s four Lottery selections over three years (picks 7, 11, 2 and 4 overall) have yet to land a single All-Star or All Rookie First Team nod. Only one of the players selected (Kemba Walker) has shown any signs of being more than an above average starter. The other three – Bismack Biyombo, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Cody Zeller – seem stuck in development limbo, either in the midst of learning hoops essentials or an entirely new position. MKG and Zeller should end up being ok eventually. They have the intangibles and hoops acumen to overcome present day weaknesses and become at least quality NBA players. Biyombo is probably a lost cause – the team basically admitted as much when they debated extending his rookie-scale team option for next season. All in all, Cho’s drafts, given the quality of the picks and talent available, have been disappointing – even more so when you factor in that his entire team building strategy is built around the Lottery. Here we are, years after the dismantling began and the Bobcats are no closer to a perennial All-Star (much less superstar) than they were before.

The post-mortem on Cho’s Draft woes lead to one conclusion: he fails when drafting “projections” of what a player might be versus who they are now. The mentality behind this probably stems from his days with Seattle/OKC – a branch of the Spurs culture (GM Sam Presti arrived via San Antonio) suited for transforming raw specimens into productive assets. The Bobcats had zero experience with this type of development before Cho arrived and Cho only compounded the risk by selecting his prospects in the Lottery versus the late rounds (i.e. Serge Ibaka, Manu Ginobli).

Executing The Right Strategy The Wrong Way

Had San Antonio drafted Biyombo, for example, he would’ve been taken in the late first round, stashed in Europe for a few years and only brought back Stateside once he was ready to contribute (see Tiago Splitter). But the Bobcats couldn’t afford to handle it that way, they were pitching youth and promise while bottoming out — how else could you sell a putrid, seven win team to the fans? Biz was brought over immediately after the team paid millions to his Spanish club via a buyout. Since then, the Cats have invested three seasons, additional millions of dollars in salary, countless training resources and thousands of minutes played in Biyombo and the only positive asset he’s likely to bring via trade is a salary dump. Biz is owed $4 million next season and it would be shocking if another franchise sees him as anything but a backup center at this point.

Here’s a list of notable players drafted after Biyombo:

Brandon Knight, Walker, Klay Thompson, Alec Burks, the Morris Twins, Kawhi Leonard, Nikola Vucevic, Iman Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Kenneth Faried, Nikola Mirotic, Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler.

Realistically, the only player on this list that you could get for Biyombo one for one in a trade is Shumpert and that’s because the Knicks are terrible defensively and are poorly run in general. No way Chicago trades Butler for Biz today, for example, even though Jimmy was selected twenty three spots later. In total, there were at least thirteen more valuable, more productive players chosen after Biyombo, which is not exactly the best way to begin your tenure as a Draft-focused GM.

Projections Not To Be Confused With Reality

Getting back to Cho’s flawed “projections”, look no further than his most successful pick (Kemba) to discover a more reasonable Draft formula:
A. Does this player possess an elite, instantly translatable NBA skill? Kemba: elite quickness – YES.
B. Can this player shoot, pass and dribble? AKA Does this player have a sound basketball foundation? AKA “The Jalen Rose Rule of Drafting” Kemba: YES.
C. Does this player possess the intangibles to improve upon their single elite skill and sound basketball foundation to become something more? Kemba: YES.

Now try running through this test with Biyombo:
A. Shot blocking – YES.
B. NO.
C. N/A - still learning fundamentals.

Uh-oh. Let’s try it with MKG:
A. On-Ball Defense – YES.
B. NO.
C. N/A - still fixing broken shot (fundamental).

Yikes. What about Cody:
A. NO.
B. YES.
C. N/A - no elite skill.

Now, I’m not saying this is the end all be all of Lottery Drafting Guides but if a player can’t shoot/pass/dribble, how in the heck is he going to be an All-Star? If he doesn’t have one elite skill, how is he going to be an All-Star? You gotta have all three. Look at Boogie Cousins in Sacramento. Elite post game, can do everything but has a terrible attitude that’s held him back. Reggie Evans is an elite rebounder but that’s it. Career role player. CP3 is an elite floor general, does everything and is driven to win. Superstar. Same goes for Damian Lillard.

Klay Thompson was an elite shooter coming into the Draft. He had sound fundamentals and, as the son of a former NBA player, was a big time worker. Not sure why you’d pass on him for a guy who can’t even catch a basketball much less pass/dribble/shoot. Michael Carter Williams was an elite floor general, could pass/dribble (though struggled with his shot somewhat as a freshman – the mechanics weren’t broken) and had the intangibles. There are shades of gray, sure, but as an overall strategy it can lead you to the promised land.

Oversell, Under Deliver

NBA talent evaluation is incredibly difficult – make no mistake – but so is open heart surgery and our society has figured out a way to put the right people in those positions to perform their jobs successfully. Rich Cho has done much more good than bad in his time in Charlotte. He’s wrangled their once wild cap situation, he’s made trades that have brought as much or more to the team than they’ve given up and his eye for low-cost free agents has been exemplary.

The problem is this: if you are going to subject a fanbase to a years-long, historically gruesome tear-down – pacifying them with dreams of young stars acquired through the Draft – then you MUST deliver on that promise. The Bobcats as constructed in 2010 were not going anywhere special but they were certainly not destined for a soul crushing seven win season either. The choice was made, the city and fanbase shouldered the embarrassment and shame and yet the shining young stars are nowhere within sight. Thus far at least, through the lens of Cho’s own lofty strategy, failure is the only grade.

http://www.bobcatsbaseline.com/2014/bob ... 10-review/
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#115 » by BlackOutBuzz » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:50 pm

It was such a debate of whether or not to extend Biz... that the FO did it the same time as Kemba and MKG.

I also disagree with the rather odd notion that MKG can't improve his defensive and all-around game due to his shot.

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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#116 » by Eoghan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:03 pm

If you can't see that Biyombo is easily twice the player that Zeller is, you just flat out don't understand basketball.
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#117 » by mrknowitall215 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:37 pm

BrotherDave wrote:If you can't see that Biyombo is easily twice the player that Zeller is, you just flat out don't understand basketball.


In hindsight or current evaluation, Biyombo certainly was a better rookie than Zeller
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#118 » by JDR720 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:07 pm

I think Zellers "eilte" skill is his athletic ability in general, if you count KW's quickness as a skill you should count Zellers athletic ability as a skill
I also think MKG has plenty of intangibles such as his motor

KW
A-yes quickness
B-yes
C-yes

Biz
A-yes shot blocking
B-no he cant even catch the ball let alone dribble it lol
C-yes his motor and energy

MKG
A-yes defense and rebounding for position
B-kinda he can dribble and his shot isn't that bad (our best midrange shooter this season)
C-Yes his motor is insane

Zeller
A-yes general athletic ability
B-kinda needs consistency
C-Yes motor and IQ

Taylor
A-yes shooting and defense
B-kinda cant pass or dribble but can shoot
C-yes athletic ability helps defense
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#119 » by Elden Payton » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:33 pm

Not a bad attempt at an article but a lot of it was BS imo.

Biyombo has a very specific NBA role, he's a rim protecter, young and getting better, They are so important in the modern game and if he averages 8/8/2 then he's starter material.

The funny thing is that Biz is a 7/13/2 player per 36, if given the required time(and touches), I'm convinced he can be a 6/10/2 player (right now) and he's also 21 years old, Adreian Payne is 2 years older than Biz...

People spout crap on MKG because he can't shoot well and his form is broken, that said, he is a fundamentally sound player for the fifth youngest in the league, his handle is tight, he's unselfish, he's a good passer, he rebounds well, boxes out well, and is exceptional in the post both offensively and defensively.

He also understands how to score (and defend) in transition, has a good understanding of the game and can break down any defender (nearly) from the top of the key.

Because he's not a good shooter, he has no viable NBA skills?

This is our third season of rebuilding, we only got the Biz pick because of Cho's hustle, we got a top ten pick for old ass Jax (basically) and then flip Maggette for the Detroit pick.

We will end up with a top ten pick plus another lotto pick for 33 year old Stephen Jackson, let it sink in.

(I wish we still had Livingston and if we kept the #19 we potentially could have Tobias Harris)
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Re: Cho Me the Money! - the Rich Cho Thread 

Post#120 » by LamarMatic7 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:40 pm

JDR720 wrote:I think Zellers "eilte" skill is his athletic ability in general

is it really elite is the thing I've wondered about. does he really excel athletically when compared to other power forwards?

maybe the whole thing is over-blown just because he's white.
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