2020 Off-season Discussion

[DY_nasty]

I'm not gonna go in circles on this but there isn't a single problem on this team that is created with Ball this year that existed without Ball last year. Or the year before. Or before that. I don't think its fair to frame the problem around Ball's arrival when its an issue that's been huge for years.

Look at is this way: Rim defence has long been an issue. Cody does a bunch of stuff (sets hard screens, creates space with physicality and boxing out, runs the floor, good FT shooting etc) but rim defence is still an issue.

If we replaced Cody with Willy not only would we not get the good stuff - the hard screens, boxing out and rim running that Cody brings - but our rim defence would be even worse than it is with Cody so the rim defence getting worse would be on Willys inclusion into the line up.

So the problem, rim protection, exists with Cody but it’s made even worse with Willy + we don’t get all the good stuff Cody does bring.

Perimeter defence has been an issue for years but it’s about to get a zillion times worse with Ball now on the roster - and he doesn’t bring extra good stuff like shooting, scoring, good shot selection free throws etc to offset it.

To counter that I think we need to overhaul the roster.


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Wouldn't all of this be true if we drafted Edwards as well? I'd be willing to put money that Ball turns into the better defender of the two.

I also think we should give Ball some time to develop defensively. He's played 12 games with an organized defense and he looked the part. I don't know if he will buy in on D but if he does then someone of his size will certainly be better than Graham or Rozier.

Also I understand the idea that if someone can't defend then you want them to shoot. This is logical but that is the bet on Lamelo. If he shoots at an average rate then he's an all-star level guy. If he shoots average and defends at an average rate then he's a guy you build the team around. I don't know if he'll hit those bench marks but we should let our develop team/him try. We don't want to be good next year.

If we're having this same conversation after year 2 or 3 then it's a much different conversation.

Again - I'm telling guys to NOT frame this around Ball at all. These problems have been around since before we re-signed Kemba.

Our frontcourt issues and wing problems would've remained consistent with anyone we picked in this draft. I've been saying that every single player in this draft is a project and without camps or summer league going into a condensed season, there's no way to reasonably expect any of this class to be a game changer right away.

This isn't a problem popped up last night or last year. Our wing situation has been horrid and continuing to rely on Cody Zeller on the inside is never going to be a winning offseason.

[LofJ]

Now that I've had some time to digest the last few days I'm happy that Mitch resisted the temptation to use our better assets to get another 1st in this draft. Meanwhile teams like the Pistons went all in with what they had and don't have as much room to maneuver in future (better) drafts. Other than the Thunder and the Pelicans we will have more flexibility to make moves in the much better 2021 draft than any other team.

And while we're talking about defense it should be clear to everyone that the large majority of the league does not value prospects whose primary value comes on the defensive end. They value established veterans for that. If we want to inflate the value of our players they need to score, the more the better.

When we determine what players (if any) we have or could get to build around in the next year or so then we can remake the roster to compete.

[amcoolio]

I agree we need better wings. 2021 has Jonathan Kuminga, Jalen Johnson and Ziaire Williams as forwards who all are athletic specimens who are also skilled two way players. We just need to get in the top 5.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

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[James Gatz]

Look at is this way: Rim defence has long been an issue. Cody does a bunch of stuff (sets hard screens, creates space with physicality and boxing out, runs the floor, good FT shooting etc) but rim defence is still an issue.

If we replaced Cody with Willy not only would we not get the good stuff - the hard screens, boxing out and rim running that Cody brings - but our rim defence would be even worse than it is with Cody so the rim defence getting worse would be on Willys inclusion into the line up.

So the problem, rim protection, exists with Cody but it’s made even worse with Willy + we don’t get all the good stuff Cody does bring.

Perimeter defence has been an issue for years but it’s about to get a zillion times worse with Ball now on the roster - and he doesn’t bring extra good stuff like shooting, scoring, good shot selection free throws etc to offset it.

To counter that I think we need to overhaul the roster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wouldn't all of this be true if we drafted Edwards as well? I'd be willing to put money that Ball turns into the better defender of the two.

I also think we should give Ball some time to develop defensively. He's played 12 games with an organized defense and he looked the part. I don't know if he will buy in on D but if he does then someone of his size will certainly be better than Graham or Rozier.

Also I understand the idea that if someone can't defend then you want them to shoot. This is logical but that is the bet on Lamelo. If he shoots at an average rate then he's an all-star level guy. If he shoots average and defends at an average rate then he's a guy you build the team around. I don't know if he'll hit those bench marks but we should let our develop team/him try. We don't want to be good next year.

If we're having this same conversation after year 2 or 3 then it's a much different conversation.

Again - I'm telling guys to NOT frame this around Ball at all. These problems have been around since before we re-signed Kemba.

Our frontcourt issues and wing problems would've remained consistent with anyone we picked in this draft. I've been saying that every single player in this draft is a project and without camps or summer league going into a condensed season, there's no way to reasonably expect any of this class to be a game changer right away.

This isn't a problem popped up last night or last year. Our wing situation has been horrid and continuing to rely on Cody Zeller on the inside is never going to be a winning offseason.

I'm in agreement with you. The reason I bring up Edwards is to show that it wouldn't of matter who we would have drafted, our defense is likely to be very bad next year. I also don't care where our defense will be in 2020-2021, only where it projects to be in the following years.

That being said, how a team fits around Lamelo is something worth discussing. I'm of the opinion we should give him at least a season, bummer there is no summer league/training camp really, to see what we have with him. Lets say he shoots but is the worst defender in the league. Then we should look for good wing defenders to insulate him. If he defends but doesn't shoot, then vice verses. Obviously you'd want guys who can do both around him or anyone but it's easier to find one or the other.

Right now the only player who seems to be a definitive long term starter is PJ. Ball and PJ do fit with one another. That's a positive.

[LofJ]

Our two-way talent on the wing isn't great right now, but when did we get so down on PJ Washington? I know he hit the rookie wall, but that happens to everyone. He's been working really, really hard since the season ended. I'm more confident he's a keeper than anyone else on the roster (including Ball and Graham).

[James Gatz]

Our two-way talent on the wing isn't great right now, but when did we get so down on PJ Washington? I know he hit the rookie wall, but that happens to everyone. He's been working really, really hard since the season ended. I'm more confident he's a keeper than anyone else on the roster (including Ball and Graham).

I see PJ as more of a 4/5 than a 3/4 despite his height. Only wings on the roster are really the Martin Twins. McDaniels and Bridges are really more tweener 4s in my mind as well. No way Miles can guard 2s.

[DY_nasty]

Our two-way talent on the wing isn't great right now, but when did we get so down on PJ Washington? I know he hit the rookie wall, but that happens to everyone. He's been working really, really hard since the season ended. I'm more confident he's a keeper than anyone else on the roster (including Ball and Graham).

I think he's a got a bright future and is a complimentary guy - but keyword complimentary.

His physicality would have to go through the roof to really become a true space eater at his size. He's acknowledged that he has work to do defensively too. I'm not really targeting any singular individual when it comes to our shortcomings though. PJ helps, but he's never going to be more of a difference maker inside than a Paul Millsap. And that's not a 'bad' thing by in any way at all. It just needs to be emphasized that at best, he's a piece. A really good piece. Not a guy who'll solve the problem entirely even at his best.

If we got enough quality guys to match, then he'd gel no problem. I can see PJ fitting into just about any system and playing off of any type of franchise player.

[LofJ]

Our two-way talent on the wing isn't great right now, but when did we get so down on PJ Washington? I know he hit the rookie wall, but that happens to everyone. He's been working really, really hard since the season ended. I'm more confident he's a keeper than anyone else on the roster (including Ball and Graham).

I see PJ as more of a 4/5 than a 3/4 despite his height. Only wings on the roster are really the Martin Twins. McDaniels and Bridges are really more tweener 4s in my mind as well. No way Miles can guard 2s.

PJ isn't MKG on defense, but he has the foot speed to stay with most 3's and 4's. He'll never cover quick guards like De'Aaron Fox, but that doesn't mean he isn't a wing. He just isn't quite that versatile on defense.

On offense he's worked a lot on his ability to create offense off the dribble and we all know he can hit threes. I'm excited to see it in action. He's a wing, a big one yes, but still a wing imo.

[Braggins]

The top 5 picks in the 2021 draft likely would have gone top 5 this year, that's how strong next year's draft is.

I think we give Whiteside a big one year contract as a stopgap and play the young guys a bunch of minutes. Maybe flip Rozier at the deadline if he's playing well.

I think we were gonna offer Bogdanovic a huge contract but it looks like Atlanta is doing that instead

Can you imagine pairing Cade Cunningham with Ball?

Ya, I don't know why anyone is fretting about roster issues or anything that affects our ability to win games this season. We need to tank for at least one more year anyways and this year is the perfect year to do it without getting too much negative attention/PR. The season is shortened, so the pain will be short and there are tons of built in excuses for why a rebuilding team thats strategy is oriented through the draft wouldn't be able to make big strides this year, so I don't see anyone giving us too much flak.

If an opportunity pops up to sign a good wing or frontcourt player that is relatively young and could be a part of the future then fine, but I wouldn't worry about it and wouldn't bother signing stop gap guys. Just ride out this year and hopefully get a top 5 pick in this next draft. Cade Cunningham seems to be on par with any recent prospect not named Luka (and he actually might be a Luka type prospect) and there are multiple other really good athletic wing scorers in the 2021 draft that we can target if we don't win the Cunningham sweepstakes.

I would look to "showcase" Rozier early and try to offload him for some draft compensation or a prospect as soon as possible. I'd like to get some value out of Zeller before he walks, but that might be going to far because our frontcourt rotation would be completely non-functional without him. Zeller and the franchise also seem to have a great relationship and it wouldn't shock me if they wanted to resign him on a cheaper deal to be a long term backup once they find a better starting option. He'll probably walk to a playoff team after this season, but ya never know.

[bravor]

I want to draft a defensive stud next year. Kuminga could be that guy.

I'd rather tank well enough to win the lottery and draft Cunningham. Having a point forward ala Doncic/Simmons (even 'light' version) etc would make Ball expandable and if eventually he confirms his potential, he could bring a pretty good return to fill the holes around Cunningham.
As long as he confirms his potential in Oklahoma ofc.

Kuminga might be focused on geting drafted by nyk (i doubt he would have another preference, but i m not saying its impossible), the story would be great for all actors (the player, the franchise - especially after their 2020 draft.. - and even the nba).

[Braggins]

Cade Cunningham looks like he can do it all. I don't think you necessarily need to trade Ball if you get Cade. Having two elite playmakers who can run an offense is fine as long as they aren't both non-shooters and one can be your primary scorer.

[DY_nasty]

Fade for Cade 2021

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I really wouldn't mind the team trying to get in on a Bogdan Boganovic s&t now that things have fallen through with the Bucks.

[bravor]

Cade Cunningham looks like he can do it all. I don't think you necessarily need to trade Ball if you get Cade. Having two elite playmakers who can run an offense is fine as long as they aren't both non-shooters and one can be your primary scorer.

Except that you need at least two stars imo when you are Charlotte (for FA's - cf Kemba - , tickets, media attention etc).

I have a very hard time convincing myself that Ball could be one of them. And i would always suspect some drama if there are good results (bigger team, bigger market) or bad results (Borrego or whoever replaced him s*** or off the court/locker room stuff). Not saying this is what will/would happen, but there is the risk.

Basically Hornets are still in a 'can't miss' situation for every draft while Kupchak could have chosen some profile more nba ready (not for the top pick) or more 'bankable'. And they only have some expiring and some flawed former lottery picks to use to improve the roster.

I have some other rebuilding teams roster in mind, and when i see Memphis (loaded with low twenty stars in the making, and with some nice veteran contracts to play with), Atlanta (who again had a quiet but successful draft), i think Hornets are way behind right now in terms of assets (real assets).

We will see what free agency will bring. Maybe a miracle trade for some of the expiring will bring some future firsts (even late, in next drafts they should become more valuable) but the situation is what it is. There is a lot of what if and not many reasons to feel the fundations are solid.

[DY_nasty]

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte_hornets/

we're in a really, really good spot

we'd have to be aggressively stupid to ruin this

[vtime]

Melo, Washington, and possibly Graham are your keepers. I would move anyone else to upgrade to a scoring wing and a 2 way center.

[LofJ]

I think we have the least amount of committed salary in the NBA. Mitch is rebuilding on the cheap, you know MJ has to love that

[MasterIchiro]

I would like to acquire Myles Turner closer to the deadline if the Pacers are cornered and want to keep Oladipo. Either way I would hold onto our expirings until the deadline as teams look to shed payroll for picks in this next draft. I too would feed the ball to Rozier. He needs to lead the team in shot attempts and be our go-to scorer. Bump him up to 20 points per game and he can return draft assets. We stayed lean and can leverage the space for draft capital. We're due.

[amcoolio]

Frank the Tank just got declined in PHX, there's our center option!