2019 Draft Discussion

[cornchip]

Let's chill with the passive-aggressive attacks. Let's stick to draft discussion and not bashing other posters.

ETA: good call BigSlam, beat me to it.

Thanks guys. After the outright attacks I was surprised to see multiple posts attempting to bait me into a response.

Hopefully this third warning in two days from two different mods is enough for "some" posters to get a clue and chill out.


As for finding gunners with our later picks, Cam Johnson is the guy I've been targeting there since day one. I'd be willing to consolidate those picks to move up and grab him in the 20s if necessary. He's going to be a contributing player for playoffs teams for a long time with his size and shooting.

Dude is flat out lights out at every facet we need: catch and shoot, off the dribble, off screen, mid range, even has the size to be a threat as the pick man when Kemba initiates the offense.

He's also a surprisingly effective perimeter defensive player despite not being a great athlete. He works his ass off on both ends of the floor and showed improvement every year, even with an increased workload.

If guys like Redick can be contributors, so can Johnson

I don't know. These Carolina guys with sweet strokes always worry me lol.

Even watching UNC games last year, if his shot wasn't falling he was just...kinda ok. Same thing with Ellington, Hairston, Green (if I remember correctly Danny Green was more of an athlete who refined his jumper in SA). We'll see about Justin Jackson.

He probably won't get the proverbial "green light" he got at UNC. More often than not he won't be able to shoot his way out of off nights in the NBA. He seems to be a hard worker plus he's an experienced guy who often made the right play. I just don't know if I saw enough activity, playmaking, outstanding defensive play for him to be a real difference maker early if he isn't very efficient from the outside.

Still at #36...definitely worth the pick.

[UNCNYC]

Hornets have three picks. Someone give me someone to cheer for for our second rounders.

For each pick, let's hear best case scenario for someone who only semi-unreleastically will be there so I can cheer for someone to drop, then a safety pick of someone who will likely be there.

This draft is extremely deep. There is quality talent that will be there AFTER the draft. These are players that should make you hopeful and are very realistic at each position. If yu hear any of their names at these positions I think we did ok. For #51 I included a lot of people but basically I put in order of best to worse.


#12 -
Jarrett Culver,
Luka Samanic,
Nickeil Alex.-Wal.

#36 -
Darius Bazley
Kevin Porter
Tyler Cook

#51
Isaiah Roby
Jalen McDaniels
Joshua Obeisie
Jordan Poole
Matisse Thybulle
Terance Mann
Admiral Schofield
Miye Oni
V.J. King
B.J. Taylor
Jaylen Hoard
Dylan Windler
Jordan Bone
Kerwin Roach
Deividas SirvydiS
Bennie Boatwright
Zylan Cheatham

[TheKingofSting]

Read on Twitter

Good reading material for anyone with plenty of time on their hands in the next few days.

TLDR: For prospects in our range has Brandon Clarke as the second best prospect in the whole draft, Bol Bol is an All-Star if he learns how to play defense, P.J. Washington and Jaxson Hayes are both Top 10 talents and Nassir Little forgot how to play basketball and has a low basketball IQ and is a second round talent.


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[UNCNYC]

Hornets have three picks. Someone give me someone to cheer for for our second rounders.

I’d like to find a 3 point gunner in the 2nd round.

Not someone who’d start, more someone who can come off the bench in spot mins, be white hot in an instant and splash in a couple of 3’s when left open.

Think prime Matt Carroll.

Does that guy exist in the 2nd round of this draft class?


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Yes I think Jordan Poole would be what you are looking for. I have seen some mocks where he MIGHT still be there. I doubt it but possible

Watch on YouTube

[gundysmullet]

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/

I’m sorry, but I really like Clarke. I’ve been wondering why so many fans on here and twitter seem to dislike him and so many analytics guys like him. I keep hearing no reach, no shot, limited offense, too short, etc... So I decided to do some of my own research, which means reading others research and decide himself. After watching all the YouTube videos I could find on the guy and reading several articles, the above link was the best one I found. Really good stuff.

I just read a really good Big Board filled with analysis, player comps, advanced stats, player descriptions, etc. It had Clarke as the #2 player in the entire draft.

MKG 2.0?

1. Great defender with broken shot
2. Started 'rebuilding' his shot about the same age MKG did.
3. Athletic
4. A winner who makes the right plays

So I think that Clarke will be better than MKG, but he is 1000% not what this team needs right now.

His shot isn’t “broken”. It was at San Jose State but his redshirt year at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed it and it has only gotten better since.

[Lwcasu]

I just read a really good Big Board filled with analysis, player comps, advanced stats, player descriptions, etc. It had Clarke as the #2 player in the entire draft.

MKG 2.0?

1. Great defender with broken shot
2. Started 'rebuilding' his shot about the same age MKG did.
3. Athletic
4. A winner who makes the right plays

So I think that Clarke will be better than MKG, but he is 1000% not what this team needs right now.

His shot isn’t “broken”. It was at San Jose State but his redshirt year at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed it and it has only gotten better since.

Yeah, I saw a highlight of his San Jose jumpshot and freaked out, but then I learned they fixed it. Glad they fixed it because it actually looked worse than MKG (didn’t know a thing was possible..)

[Bassman]

If we don’t move up from 12, I think our possible options there are:

Jaxson Hayes
Brandon Clarke
PJ Washington
Nasir Little

I want to like Little as he could play a full sized SG role as an eventual starter. He has a stroke, and many qualities that scream NBA talent, but his lack of consistent motor and motivation scare me.

PJ Washington is intriguing given his many skills for a 4 in today’s league (best overall among these 4). However, his very average athleticism and defense give me some pause. Does he gain dedication to improvement as a pro and eclipse his college level qualities (a la Kemba) or play good but not great ball?

The long analysis posted on Clarke has me tempted to grab for the gamble ring. At 12 you’re odds of hitting a homer are low, so Clarke represents a razzle dazzle play call. If we want to run and gun, Clarke at PF would compliment Miles at the 3 and a (hopeful) Monk at 2. Most say he works best as a 5 but that’s impossible with his limited reach. Yes he has limitations on size and shooting, but brings intriguing possibilities.

Hayes has top level athleticism and impact potential for a center. He needs to and should be able to add more muscle/weight to his frame. He needs to improve his rate of fouling, particularly against heavier foes. His shooting range is limited but he’s an outstanding finisher at the basket. Excellent shot blocker. He can put on solid weight and grow where Bol is limited by his build and medical concerns. Hayes represents hope for a position of need, but is it a false flag?

For me I’d go with Hayes, as he can move into his role at NBA-level ball by adding muscle and weight which he should be able to do per scouts. I like his upside and likely defense at the 5. I think Clarke is next, followed by Little and PJ. Most of this is translation to the modern league versus college stats. But who knows....certainly not me.

[SWedd523]

I just read a really good Big Board filled with analysis, player comps, advanced stats, player descriptions, etc. It had Clarke as the #2 player in the entire draft.

MKG 2.0?

1. Great defender with broken shot
2. Started 'rebuilding' his shot about the same age MKG did.
3. Athletic
4. A winner who makes the right plays

So I think that Clarke will be better than MKG, but he is 1000% not what this team needs right now.

His shot isn’t “broken”. It was at San Jose State but his redshirt year at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed it and it has only gotten better since.

He shot 26.7% from deep last year and made a grand total of.... 4 three pointers on the entire season.

He's already going to be forced to work through an unfixable handicap with his size, but he also has zero range so you can't expect him to move out to the wing where his body dictates he should be.

I'm seriously failing to see how people are so enamored with him as a prospect. We already have the longer armed version of him on the team in MKG. A guy we're trying to get rid of because he's a dinosaur in today's game, yet guys want to pick up his T Rex cousin

[gundysmullet]

MKG 2.0?

1. Great defender with broken shot
2. Started 'rebuilding' his shot about the same age MKG did.
3. Athletic
4. A winner who makes the right plays

So I think that Clarke will be better than MKG, but he is 1000% not what this team needs right now.

His shot isn’t “broken”. It was at San Jose State but his redshirt year at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed it and it has only gotten better since.

He shot 26.7% from deep last year and made a grand total of.... 4 three pointers on the entire season.

He's already going to be forced to work through an unfixable handicap with his size, but he also has zero range so you can't expect him to move out to the wing where his body dictates he should be.

I'm seriously failing to see how people are so enamored with him as a prospect. We already have the longer armed version of him on the team in MKG. A guy we're trying to get rid of because he's a dinosaur in today's game, yet guys want to pick up his T Rex cousin

The sample size is so small you reveal your confirmation bias by even bringing it up. He is an athletic freak, has a great motor and constantly wants to get better. He’s great at defense and is not a complete waste on offense like MKG is.

[LofJ]

If we're going for a MKG replacement give me Nassir Little over Brandon Clarke. Little is 3 and a half years younger, just as athletic, and he's already a better shooter.

[Lwcasu]

If we're going for a MKG replacement give me Nassir Little over Brandon Clarke. Little is 3 and a half years younger, just as athletic, and he's already a better shooter.

You forgot the most important part—he played for UNC .

Sorry, couldn’t resist lol.

[SWedd523]

His shot isn’t “broken”. It was at San Jose State but his redshirt year at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed it and it has only gotten better since.

He shot 26.7% from deep last year and made a grand total of.... 4 three pointers on the entire season.

He's already going to be forced to work through an unfixable handicap with his size, but he also has zero range so you can't expect him to move out to the wing where his body dictates he should be.

I'm seriously failing to see how people are so enamored with him as a prospect. We already have the longer armed version of him on the team in MKG. A guy we're trying to get rid of because he's a dinosaur in today's game, yet guys want to pick up his T Rex cousin

The sample size is so small you reveal your confirmation bias by even bringing it up. [b] He is an athletic freak, has a great motor and constantly wants to get better. He’s great at defense and is not a complete waste on offense[/]b] like MKG is.

How is a full season as a 22yo a small sample size?

Would you prefer I widen that net to his entire three year college career? That brings his grand total to a whopping 6/24 for an utherworldly 25%

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm failing to see what you're going for here.

Even the bolded quote described MKG during the pre-draft festivities. It wasn't until he actually played against professionals before it became apparent.

Has a 6'8/6'8 guy with no outside shot found success in the modern NBA? Do you have any examples of that physical profile being a high level contributor? Serious question because I'm curious.

You're hoping that a 23yo rookie who has never shown the ability to score from outside, who is more than likely going to be forced to play as a perimeter guy due to his size limitations, and has already had his shot rebuilt, magically figures it out.

He's a very Charlotte draft pick. Glaring holes that have to be overcome just to see the floor, much less contribute long term. It's like the team is all those toys from that kids house on Toy Story. All broken and pieced together.

[LofJ]

If we're going for a MKG replacement give me Nassir Little over Brandon Clarke. Little is 3 and a half years younger, just as athletic, and he's already a better shooter.

You forgot the most important part—he played for UNC .

Sorry, couldn’t resist lol.

If that helps the team sell tickets it's a plus. And beyond that Little actually has adequate size for his position, while Clarke does not.

Clarke is the one guy I don't want the team to pick, so maybe I should get used to the idea so I won't be so disappointed.

[SWedd523]

"Welcome to Charlotte!"

[gundysmullet]

He shot 26.7% from deep last year and made a grand total of.... 4 three pointers on the entire season.

He's already going to be forced to work through an unfixable handicap with his size, but he also has zero range so you can't expect him to move out to the wing where his body dictates he should be.

I'm seriously failing to see how people are so enamored with him as a prospect. We already have the longer armed version of him on the team in MKG. A guy we're trying to get rid of because he's a dinosaur in today's game, yet guys want to pick up his T Rex cousin

The sample size is so small you reveal your confirmation bias by even bringing it up. [b] He is an athletic freak, has a great motor and constantly wants to get better. He’s great at defense and is not a complete waste on offense[/]b] like MKG is.

How is a full season as a 22yo a small sample size?

Would you prefer I widen that net to his entire three year college career? That brings his grand total to a whopping 6/24 for an utherworldly 25%

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm failing to see what you're going for here.

Even the bolded quote described MKG during the pre-draft festivities. It wasn't until he actually played against professionals before it became apparent.

Has a 6'8/6'8 guy with no outside shot found success in the modern NBA? Do you have any examples of that physical profile being a high level contributor? Serious question because I'm curious.

You're hoping that a 23yo rookie who has never shown the ability to score from outside, who is more than likely going to be forced to play as a perimeter guy due to his size limitations, and has already had his shot rebuilt, magically figures it out.

He's a very Charlotte draft pick. Glaring holes that have to be overcome just to see the floor, much less contribute long term. It's like the team is all those toys from that kids house on Toy Story. All broken and pieced together.

The season is not the sample size, the amount of shots taken is the same size. But you already knew that. Again, you are confirming your own bias. That’s revealed even more so when you bring up the stats at San Jose State especially when it has already been made known that his red shirtyear at Gonzaga they completely reconstructed his shot and it has only continue to get better. But you confirm that bias you.

[SWedd523]

What are you trying to get at other than trying to use a logical fallacy argument that doesn't apply here.

Im not interpreting, twisting, or misrepresenting anything here.

It seems pretty obvious that if he was a capable outside shooter, then he'd... I dunno... Shoot from outside more often. Unless you're trying to say he purposely decided to never showcase his ability to do so, in which case it seems to portend a serious lack of BBIQ.

I mean ****, let's add another question since you ignored my last one (I'll restate that one for posterity since I'm still looking for an answer).

1. Can you point to me a guy who has the same (or close) physical measurements and has been successful in the past 5-10 years?

Can you point me to a guy who averaged two TOTAL (or close) made threes in a multi year college career who became a respectable outside threat?


You can be as indignant as you want, but these are serious ass issues for Clarke. The same questions every GM around the league is having. You flat out cannot ignore the fact that he's a guy with serious, obvious, and glaring holes in both his physical makeup and his offensive game.

[KingCat]

I just don't really understand how a mediocre lottery team like us can justify picking a guy like Clarke. Im sure he would do alright for a contender or a playoff team who just needs a high energy due off the bench for about 6 to 10 minutes; we are a team that can't make the playoffs cause we need 90% of our offense to come out of a small point guard. Yeah Clarke getting 6 rebounds and blocking 2 or 3 shots a night would be cool, but it wouldnt change Kemba getting 3 manned blitzed every night and the Hornets only being able to put up 90 points a game.

[Lwcasu]

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/

Pretty good write up that goes a long with this discussion. They literally say there is no one in the NBA like him—for better or worse.

[SWedd523]

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/

Pretty good write up that goes a long with this discussion. They literally say there is no one in the NBA like him—for better or worse.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Charlotte specifically is not in the position to draft a guy like that. You draft him hoping he can be a run-jump-bounce guy who covers ground, crashes boards, and guards 2-4.

He needs to be on a team like Houston, Golden State, even Dallas, Boston (replacing Smart), or Utah where he can work off of the offensive firepower and spacing already present and fill the gaps as a motion man.

If he shows up here he's going to struggle because he's not a first, second, or even third offensive option so he's either going to be asked to do something he's not really capable of or comfortable with, or he's going to be in MKG's shame corner.

He's a luxury pick for a team who already has the talent to maximize what he brings to the table. Not a team desperate for guys who can carry a workload.

[Lwcasu]

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/13/uniqueness-brandon-clarke/

Pretty good write up that goes a long with this discussion. They literally say there is no one in the NBA like him—for better or worse.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Charlotte specifically is not in the position to draft a guy like that. You draft him hoping he can be a run-jump-bounce guy who covers ground, crashes boards, and guards 2-4.

He needs to be on a team like Houston, Golden State, even Dallas, Boston (replacing Smart), or Utah where he can work off of the offensive firepower and spacing already present and fill the gaps as a motion man.

If he shows up here he's going to struggle because he's not a first, second, or even third offensive option so he's either going to be asked to do something he's not really capable of or comfortable with, or he's going to be in MKG's shame corner.

He's a luxury pick for a team who already has the talent to maximize what he brings to the table. Not a team desperate for guys who can carry a workload.

I like that. That’s pretty much what the author of the article posted. Said on the right team with a stretch 5 he could deliver. If we drafted him, Kemba stays, and we had a stretch 5 he’d probably work well. However, we don’t have a stretch 5 (Kaminsky doesn’t count), Kemba could theoretically leave and well it would be bad for not only us but him too.

Basically he doesn’t fit here but is likely to be a success in the NBA. Only difference between what you said and the author of the article wrote is he could end up as a pretty good offensive player in the right system. Right now his moves are a little too predictable, he needs to finish with his left hand more, and his shoot (while atheistically improved) looks mechanical.

Obviously I like the kid but gonna stick to PJ Washington.