1st rd pick general discussion #2 overall (Poll Added)

[TheKingofSting]

I was thinking and this could be our lineup after next years draft

Kemba
Beal
Hendo
Biz
Cody Zeller

or

Kemba
Beal
Shabazz
Biz
some decent veteran Center or move Biz to Center and get a vet PF.

[Det the Threat]

Westbrook was the 4th pick in the 1st round in his draft. Not a reach at all as there were several people who hoped he would be a Bobcat. Cho is just smart.

Westbrook was a real surprise at #4 back then, as most people(certainly most of us Sonics fans) and mocks had him listed somewhere in that 7 - 12 range.
No one knew if he was a point guard or an undersized shooting guard and Presti took a pretty big gamble with guys like Love, Lopez etc. also in that draft and a pretty big need for the then still Sonics.

[ohara]

Westbrook was the 4th pick in the 1st round in his draft. Not a reach at all as there were several people who hoped he would be a Bobcat. Cho is just smart.

Westbrook was a real surprise at #4 back then, as most people(certainly most of us Sonics fans) and mocks had him listed somewhere in that 7 - 12 range.
No one knew if he was a point guard or an undersized shooting guard and Presti took a pretty big gamble with guys like Love, Lopez etc. also in that draft and a pretty big need for the then still Sonics.

You call someone taken at #4 a "real surprise" when you think the range started around #7? That is not a stretch at all. Just 3 picks. Westbrook made a fast run up the Board in the last couple weeks before the draft. And if I recall, the only mild surprise was that he went 1 pick ahead of Kevin Love rather than a pick behind. I do understand the point about the Sonics needing a Big at the time, but I appreciate the fact that Cho recognized the talent in Westbrook and that he figured he had to go with the BPA at the time. Not sure he did not underestimate Love's ability tho. I thought Love would be good, but not as good as he proved to be.

[Det the Threat]

You call someone taken at #4 a "real surprise" when you think the range started around #7? That is not a stretch at all. Just 3 picks. Westbrook made a fast run up the Board in the last couple weeks before the draft. And if I recall, the only mild surprise was that he went 1 pick ahead of Kevin Love rather than a pick behind. I do understand the point about the Sonics needing a Big at the time, but I appreciate the fact that Cho recognized the talent in Westbrook and that he figured he had to go with the BPA at the time. Not sure he did not underestimate Love's ability tho. I thought Love would be good, but not as good as he proved to be.

Yes, I call it a surprise because no one thought that Westbrook was the guy we'd take.

The first time it really was talked about was during draft day or maybe the day before, when trade rumors surfaced and people talked about us trading down for #7 and even then Westbrook was not the only guy(Brook Lopez and Eric Gordon were also in the mix and more talked about) talked about in such a situation.

Back then the Sonics still had solid guys in Ridnour and Watson at point guard and Westbrook was still considered a combo guard or a small shooting guard.

So yeah, Westbrook back then was a surprise at #4 and not just for Sonics fans but also for most of the people covering the draft.

BTW: Just saying...
If you're giving Cho all that credit with Wesbrook, then you'd need to look at what he did during all his years in Seattle.
And that means also drafting guys like Robert Swift or Mohamend Saer Sene(I can still remember Bob Hill telling everyone that Sene was ready and never going to be send down into the D-League ) in the lottery.

[ball teacher]

I mentioned Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes as players the Bobcats should get and I know Brother Dave wasn't too high on Rivers at the point position, but this guy is 6'5, athletic, good range and can score from anywhere on the court.

He may not be the point guard with the best vision, but he has played some point unlike a player like Westbrook who was just converted to being a point after being drafted (and look ow he turned out). Rivers father was a point guard and A. Rivers is familiar with playing the point, he is just such a gifted scorer which is why I wouldn't be upset at all at taking him second even though I think the player that will have the most impact is Harrison Barnes.

Barnes is gonna be ready to play, and play immediately for any team that takes him. He has good size for his position, something damn near every other big name lottery draftee seems to lack, or they just arent going to be ready to play like Davis, and Drummond.

Barnes can shoot from anywhere on the floor, can get to the rim, he's already got a decent frame and build and will only get stronger as he ages and works out, he's from the midwest and he went to UNC so he may have a closer bond to Jordan which other draftees may not have which could potentially help Barnes stay a Bobcat a long time unlike other players who may wanna bolt to a bigger market after contract time.

I also think he can be a productive starter, even a all star type player for a long time in this league. He's skilled, so he doesn't rely on athleticism to make him productive, which should help him have a longer career, like Paul Pierce who I've compared Barnes to before.

I intially didn't like this guy as a pick but looking at the players drafted, their are so many questions with everybody in this lottery except imo, he and Rivers. I'm not even really sold on Davis being this dominant obvious choice for the number 1, I just dont see the hype yet. He's very thin, but of course he'll fill out, and he's limited offensively, you can even say he's raw as a big man since he had that late growth spurt.

If the Bobcats get Robinson at the PF position, you'll have Biyombo and Rob holding down the front court, that's not alot of point production and your not very big in that department, then you have a PG in Kemba who's barely 6 ft with shoes and he's not even a real PG to begin with, that isn't a very big team to put on the floor. Barnes is 6'8 which is good for SF's and Rivers is 6'5 which is great for PG's, but most importantly, both of these guys can play, and should have very long, productive, even all star type careers. Just my opinion though and I could be wrong with everything I stated.

[Kembastockton]

You guys really got to stop trying to solve all of our problems through this draft. That is not going to happen even if we find a way to trade for the brow. If we draft T-Rob that pluggs an obvious problem rebounding. Next year we should have no problem solving the size problem as we should be a lock to walk away with Zeller, Noel, or Adams. Robinson, Biz, Noel, and Mulley is big enough line up, especially considering height means nothing when each one of these guys has a 7'0 plus wing span.

[Jaruff]

BTW: Just saying...
If you're giving Cho all that credit with Wesbrook, then you'd need to look at what he did during all his years in Seattle.
And that means also drafting guys like Robert Swift or Mohamend Saer Sene(I can still remember Bob Hill telling everyone that Sene was ready and never going to be send down into the D-League ) in the lottery.

I agree. From what I read, Seattle liked Cho because he could crunch numbers and give input on legal issues thanks to his vast background in engineering and law. It's really hard to say how much input he had in certain players, including stars like Westbrook or busts like Robert Swift. I can give a pass on Sene because if you look at the guys that went immediately after, it's not that impressive.

[Det the Threat]

BTW: Just saying...
If you're giving Cho all that credit with Wesbrook, then you'd need to look at what he did during all his years in Seattle.
And that means also drafting guys like Robert Swift or Mohamend Saer Sene(I can still remember Bob Hill telling everyone that Sene was ready and never going to be send down into the D-League ) in the lottery.

I agree. From what I read, Seattle liked Cho because he could crunch numbers and give input on legal issues thanks to his vast background in engineering and law. It's really hard to say how much input he had in certain players, including stars like Westbrook or busts like Robert Swift. I can give a pass on Sene because if you look at the guys that went immediately after, it's not that impressive.

Well, I actually didn't mind Swift(even though everything pointed towards the Sonics drafting Al Jefferson at that draft) because he showed some flashes before he tore his ACL and had some more bad luck with injuries.

Though, that Sene pick was just plain stupid. We discussed about Rajon Rondo, Ronnie Brewer or even, heck, JJ Redick with that pick and all of a sudden you heard that this 7 feet dude from Senegal is in this draft and rising up the draft charts.
And of course, the Sonics drafted the third center in a row with Sene at #10.

BTW: The best of the three centers we drafted in a row was Johan Petro at #25, wich was also during Cho's time with the Sonics.

[fatlever]

rick has some stuff posted today
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... close.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... ni_popular

[SWedd523]

I've always found it humorous that people associate production or refinement with "low ceiling" or "low upside"

[captaincrunk]

I've always found it humorous that people associate production or refinement with "low ceiling" or "low upside"

What do you associate low ceilings with?

[SWedd523]

Buses, airplanes, convertibles, etc.

[captaincrunk]

Buses, airplanes, convertibles, etc.

But really, a lot of people like to say so and so will be a bust, or should have a great career, or whatever. Really, they won't shut up about it. But surely you must have some thoughts on it?

[debo23]

I've always found it humorous that people associate production or refinement with "low ceiling" or "low upside"

What do you associate low ceilings with?

Buses, airplanes, convertibles, etc.

[KembaWalker]

MJ played 3 years in college crazy how someone with such a low ceiling turned into a decent player

[SWedd523]

Buses, airplanes, convertibles, etc.

But really, a lot of people like to say so and so will be a bust, or should have a great career, or whatever. Really, they won't shut up about it. But surely you must have some thoughts on it?

I think if people actually knew one way or the other, then they'd be millionaires.

Nobody has a clue who will or won't be a bust. Nobody knew Oden would be out of the league before his rookie deal ran out. People lauded Charlotte for the Ammo draft. The GOAT went third in his draft class.

People say guys like Drummond and Perry Jones have a high ceiling. Why? Because they didn't play well? Guys like Robinson have a low ceiling because they did?

They have a high ceiling because they're great athletes but have no skill, right? Who's to say their ceiling simply isn't just that, a great athlete with no skill? God knows we've seen plenty of those

What's to say a guy like Robinson, just to use an example, who has great athleticism and has actually produced, CAN'T develop a deadly mid range game, a deadly post game, etc.?

[captaincrunk]

MJ played 3 years in college crazy how someone with such a low ceiling turned into a decent player

Buses, airplanes, convertibles, etc.

But really, a lot of people like to say so and so will be a bust, or should have a great career, or whatever. Really, they won't shut up about it. But surely you must have some thoughts on it?

I think if people actually knew one way or the other, then they'd be millionaires.

Nobody has a clue who will or won't be a bust. Nobody knew Oden would be out of the league before his rookie deal ran out. People lauded Charlotte for the Ammo draft. The GOAT went third in his draft class.

Oden's injuries were just that: injuries. Ammo had some too.

People say guys like Drummond and Perry Jones have a high ceiling. Why? Because they didn't play well? Guys like Robinson have a low ceiling because they did?

When people talk about it, they seem to point to flashes of brilliance.

They have a high ceiling because they're great athletes but have no skill, right? Who's to say their ceiling simply isn't just that, a great athlete with no skill? God knows we've seen plenty of those

What's to say a guy like Robinson, just to use an example, who has great athleticism and has actually produced, CAN'T develop a deadly mid range game, a deadly post game, etc.?

What's to say he can? Surely there are things that exist that can be said to point to one or the other. I'm asking you which you like to look at.

[Eoghan]

I mentioned Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes as players the Bobcats should get and I know Brother Dave wasn't too high on Rivers at the point position, but this guy is 6'5, athletic, good range and can score from anywhere on the court.

I know what you're saying and I've lightened up my distaste for Rivers but I just can't ignore the horrible track record of Duke combo guards transitioning to the point in the NBA. Jason Williams bounced out due to injury, JJ Reddick, now Nolan Smith. Really, the best one I can think of in recent memory is Chris Duhon and that's not too appealing.

If we drafted Rivers we'd just have a bigger Kemba so one would have to go and I don't think Rivers is so BPA that we'd draft him.

[SWedd523]

Oden's injuries were just that: injuries. Ammo had some too.

A bust is a bust. It doesn't matter why.

When people talk about it, they seem to point to flashes of brilliance.

I assure you, Robinson had way more flashes of brilliance than Drummond.

What's to say he can? Surely there are things that exist that can be said to point to one or the other. I'm asking you which you like to look at.

I'm trying to say nobody, including me, has any clue.

If I were in charge and I was looking at "potential ceiling", the only things I can think of to look at would be intelligence, both in general and in terms of BBIQ, and work ethic.

I would want a guy who wants to put in the time to get better. A guy with fire and determination. A guy who hates to lose. Those types of things.

Because you can't develop unless you work hard. If you're lazy, you can have MJ 2.0 talent and it wouldn't matter.

[ball teacher]

I mentioned Austin Rivers and Harrison Barnes as players the Bobcats should get and I know Brother Dave wasn't too high on Rivers at the point position, but this guy is 6'5, athletic, good range and can score from anywhere on the court.

I know what you're saying and I've lightened up my distaste for Rivers but I just can't ignore the horrible track record of Duke combo guards transitioning to the point in the NBA. Jason Williams bounced out due to injury, JJ Reddick, now Nolan Smith. Really, the best one I can think of in recent memory is Chris Duhon and that's not too appealing.

If we drafted Rivers we'd just have a bigger Kemba so one would have to go and I don't think Rivers is so BPA that we'd draft him.

Bro. Dave, you know something that I think makes Rivers different, he doesn't seem to be a typical Duke type player and I think his style of play and that Duke system wasn't a good fit for him. Rivers would've excelled even moreso had he played at a scholl that gave him more freedom to do his thing, I think the same is true for Harrison Barnes for that matter. These are two guys who took their talents to system type schools and in cases like that you compromise your individual talent for the benefit of the team in order to win the NCAA tourney.

Thats what I THINK though so I could very well be wrong. As for these other players in the lottery, your really taking a chance on them because most of them seem to have serious questions about their games.

Beal is 6'4 maybe 6'3, and he's not very athletic so why draft him to play alongside Kemba? Thats a small backcourt.

Is MKG a SF or a SG? And he's 6'5 but 6'7 if he has those big soled sneakers on. He hustles and plays hard, but at that size and with the suspect jumper he has, that's a serioous crap shoot to take for the second player in the draft.

Robinson played very well against younger, smaller, lesser talented players/teams. How will he fair against bigger more talented, more skilled players, and at 6'7 he wont be the bully on the floor anymore. Now he'll have to defend players like Tim Duncan at 6'11, Dirk at 7'0, Amare at 6'10, Aldridge, Cousins, Bosh, and others.

The three guys I think i'd take the chance on are Barnes, Rivers or Drummond.