The Gordon Hayward Thread

[BeesWax]

He definately prefers Charlotte because it is a better team and fit for him. You low balled him and we offered him closer to what he deserved. Nice try to screw your player over but he had the ability to avoid such BS. A player is worth what he knows he can get and you admitted you knew he could get it so you did try to screw him over but lost.

Can tell you don't watch much of us because we really haven't wasted any top 10 picks since Jordan took over and the only pick he was said to have pushed for was Kemba who was our best so far. MKG is a great defender which is very much overlooked and Biz was always a project. How is Kanter working out for you guys?

He "definately" prefers Charlotte. -- SOURCE??
How can you or me say we low balled him? We don't even know what the Jazz offered. I think 12 million would have been fair to pay him. 15 is over paying so I wouldn't say closer to what he is worth but yes he was smart to wait as was his agent.

DJ Augustin? Adam Morrison? Biyombo?

If you think MKG is so good look at this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2013

compare their per 36 minutes

Also Kanter is pretty good on Offense but I admit he isn't very good defensively and for a #3 pick in the draft he really isn't living up to my expectations.

Biz was a project from the start and a Cho pick.

You want to know which team he would prefer just look at the teams. Our team is a better fit and we are young and have a good chance to grow. We are a better team than you guys right now and he is a winner and wants to win.

Look at the real plus minus stats on MKG vs Kanter. MKG is best at the side of the ball that is least analyzed. Also compare that MKG has a positive PER vs his opponents vs Kanter who has a negative according to 82games.com.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/9

http://www.82games.com/1314/13UTA15.HTM vs http://www.82games.com/1314/13CHA11.HTM

Look at the PER vs opponents per 48 towards the bottom. I am not doing this to attack the Jazz we are just in a better place right now and would be more attractive to someone looking to win. Have MKG to defend the other teams best perimeter wing would also be a bonus for Hayward. Ease his job on that end and let him concentrate on scoring.

[MasterIchiro]

There wasn't anything smart about Cho offering Hayward that offer sheet. Now, every free agent of consequence that is equal to or better than Hayward will be able to demand close to that amount of money. It might've been the dumbest thing I've seen this entire offseason, even worst than the Orlando Magic signings

Nothing smart about the Jazz lowballing their franchise player.

If I want agents/players to take me seriously, I pay a premium on players who fit and players I like. Players can demand the moon from us based on this offer but if we don't like that player we won't be willing to pay it. We picked Hayward and we'll pick our plan B target next, again offering a premium to communicate our commitment to competing with teams with high level of talent while you're trying to skimp on payroll with the Pistons and Jazz.

[mrknowitall215]

There wasn't anything smart about Cho offering Hayward that offer sheet. Now, every free agent of consequence that is equal to or better than Hayward will be able to demand close to that amount of money. It might've been the dumbest thing I've seen this entire offseason, even worst than the Orlando Magic signings

Nothing smart about the Jazz lowballing their franchise player.

That was extremely smart since they had rights to Hayward regardless of what another team offered, but it came back to bite them since Cho is starting to look like a incompetent GM, maybe no thanks to his recently added assistant Chad Buchanan though

[Hornet Mania]

Do you have a source for us only offering 4/40? Serious question, not trying to be a jerk

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--after-failing-to-reach-deal-with-jazz--gordon-hayward-will-become-restricted-free-agent-next-summer-203525904.html

Woj claims Hayward's camp was looking for $50 million over 4 years, hypothetical contract would have started at around $12 million.

This is what usually happens when teams don't extend RFAs early, they almost always regret that decision. Zach Lowe made some great points in his article about the Hayward situation a couple days ago, a lot of the top bargain contracts around the league were extensions that avoided RFA. Players like Curry, Conley and Lawson would almost surely be making more now, even though at the time the numbers seemed steep. I really hope the Hornets extend the players they plan to definitely retain before they hit RFA for this reason. I think Utah and many other small-market teams should also pursue that course in the future, the data suggests it's almost always for the best.

[BeesWax]

There wasn't anything smart about Cho offering Hayward that offer sheet. Now, every free agent of consequence that is equal to or better than Hayward will be able to demand close to that amount of money. It might've been the dumbest thing I've seen this entire offseason, even worst than the Orlando Magic signings

Nothing smart about the Jazz lowballing their franchise player.

That was extremely smart since they had rights to Hayward regardless of what another team offered, but it came back to bite them since Cho is starting to look like a incompetent GM, maybe no thanks to his recently added assistant Chad Buchanan though

Or he is looking quite smart. If this was all part of the plan. If we get Hayward then great if not he did build good will with him and his agent for when he can opt out in three years. We stuck a team with a contract that is not easily tradable for a player that under their current constructions is a bad fit. This limits their ability to go against up for FA in the future. All in all it was a good move for us.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I prefer to focus on the positive. Hayward is a good player and multiple teams have indicated interest in having him on board. It’s no surprise to me that the Jazz want him back. Cho has surprised me a bit with his approach, but it’s not a bad one.

It seems clear to me that Cho and Cliff hope the Jazz don’t match, but all of the comments about Cho so far are about how prepared he is with multiple contingency plans and such. If, after 72 hours, the offer gets matched he will move on. My personal belief is that the next targets will be trades or even sign and trades. Would it be nice if the Hornets didn’t have to have so much cap space tied up for 3 days? Sure. End of the world? Probably not.

For the Jazz fans, look at it this way … Hayward obviously sees potential benefit in both Utah and Charlotte. He’s not pulling an Eric Gordon and saying “Utah, don’t match, please!!!” He’s simply making a choice to get money starting this year with the understanding that it could be in either place, and that once the Jazz make their choice, whatever it is, that he will be in that place for at least 3 years.

[mrknowitall215]

Nothing smart about the Jazz lowballing their franchise player.

That was extremely smart since they had rights to Hayward regardless of what another team offered, but it came back to bite them since Cho is starting to look like a incompetent GM, maybe no thanks to his recently added assistant Chad Buchanan though

Or he is looking quite smart. If this was all part of the plan. If we get Hayward then great if not he did build good will with him and his agent for when he can opt out in three years. We stuck a team with a contract that is not easily tradable for a player that under their current constructions is a bad fit. This limits their ability to go against up for FA in the future. All in all it was a good move for us.

Utah isn't a destination for UFAs that are anything of significance. Charlotte already was a better destination than Utah without offering a max-contract to a player whom statistical efforts didn't deserve over $8 million

[mrknowitall215]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

[HornetJail]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

he ain't signing an avery bradley contract. given the state of this free agency, that is 100% out of the question. 4/48 is looking pretty good right now.

[mrknowitall215]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

he ain't signing an avery bradley contract. given the state of this free agency, that is 100% out of the question. 4/48 is looking pretty good right now.

Stephenson can only accept what a team offer. The players don't have no advantage in these scenarios and by the way the Hairston situation is looking I would be very reluctant to overpay for a player with character concerns (even though I think a lot of Stephenson's character issues are or may be overblown in a hypothetical sense)

[BeesWax]

That was extremely smart since they had rights to Hayward regardless of what another team offered, but it came back to bite them since Cho is starting to look like a incompetent GM, maybe no thanks to his recently added assistant Chad Buchanan though

Or he is looking quite smart. If this was all part of the plan. If we get Hayward then great if not he did build good will with him and his agent for when he can opt out in three years. We stuck a team with a contract that is not easily tradable for a player that under their current constructions is a bad fit. This limits their ability to go against up for FA in the future. All in all it was a good move for us.

Utah isn't a destination for UFAs that are anything of significance. Charlotte already was a better destination than Utah without offering a max-contract to a player whom statistical efforts didn't deserve over $8 million

The contract is fine and with us I believe he would have been able to earn it. With them I doubt he can live up to it just to to team composition. Maybe this prevents them from trying to outbid us on someone. All in all it was a solid move.

[yosemiteben]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

Yeah...after seeing us offer Hayward $15M, I'm sure his first response is, "You know what, I should probably accept that Pacers offer. It's looking pretty reasonable!"

Props to sticking to your opinion that he's going to sign for under $10M. One track mind indeed.

[mrknowitall215]

Or he is looking quite smart. If this was all part of the plan. If we get Hayward then great if not he did build good will with him and his agent for when he can opt out in three years. We stuck a team with a contract that is not easily tradable for a player that under their current constructions is a bad fit. This limits their ability to go against up for FA in the future. All in all it was a good move for us.

Utah isn't a destination for UFAs that are anything of significance. Charlotte already was a better destination than Utah without offering a max-contract to a player whom statistical efforts didn't deserve over $8 million

The contract is fine and with us I believe he would have been able to earn it. With them I doubt he can live up to it just to to team composition. Maybe this prevents them from trying to outbid us on someone. All in all it was a solid move.

I humbly disagree but respect your opinion. Utah has all of that cap space that you're insinuating but they aren't linked to any free-agent but Hayward because they are like a 'Final Destination' (pun intended) death bed for players that can't garner enough interest from other teams so they have to settle for the Jazz' offer

[mrknowitall215]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

Yeah...after seeing us offer Hayward $15M, I'm sure his first response is, "You know what, I should probably accept that Pacers offer. It's looking pretty reasonable!"

Props to sticking to your opinion that he's going to sign for under $10M. One track mind indeed.

Exactly the reason why I stated that this chess move by Cho was just checkmated. Charlotte is in a bad situation with any free agent of significance that they pursue the rest of this offseason. Thanks for agreeing with me

[Jazzfan154]

Biz was a project from the start and a Cho pick.

You want to know which team he would prefer just look at the teams. Our team is a better fit and we are young and have a good chance to grow. We are a better team than you guys right now and he is a winner and wants to win.

Look at the real plus minus stats on MKG vs Kanter. MKG is best at the side of the ball that is least analyzed. Also compare that MKG has a positive PER vs his opponents vs Kanter who has a negative according to 82games.com.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/9

http://www.82games.com/1314/13UTA15.HTM vs http://www.82games.com/1314/13CHA11.HTM

Look at the PER vs opponents per 48 towards the bottom. I am not doing this to attack the Jazz we are just in a better place right now and would be more attractive to someone looking to win. Have MKG to defend the other teams best perimeter wing would also be a bonus for Hayward. Ease his job on that end and let him concentrate on scoring.

I agree as far as winning goes CHA is in a better position then the jazz

[Jazzfan154]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--after-failing-to-reach-deal-with-jazz--gordon-hayward-will-become-restricted-free-agent-next-summer-203525904.html

Thanks for the source!

[BeesWax]

Utah isn't a destination for UFAs that are anything of significance. Charlotte already was a better destination than Utah without offering a max-contract to a player whom statistical efforts didn't deserve over $8 million

The contract is fine and with us I believe he would have been able to earn it. With them I doubt he can live up to it just to to team composition. Maybe this prevents them from trying to outbid us on someone. All in all it was a solid move.

I humbly disagree but respect your opinion. Utah has all of that cap space that you're insinuating but they aren't linked to any free-agent but Hayward because they are like a 'Final Destination' (pun intended) death bed for players that can't garner enough interest from other teams so they have to settle for the Jazz' offer

We are not a great destination spot either. My point is they could target someone the same as us down the line. This may prevent them from offering more money than us to get them. We both have to slightly overpay to land good FA and this could gives us an advantage in a head to head battle down the line. Yes we might be a more desirable place to go but if they can offer 3 million a year more they may get the guy. This could prevent them from doing that while getting a little positive credit with the agent.

[MasterIchiro]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

Yeah...after seeing us offer Hayward $15M, I'm sure his first response is, "You know what, I should probably accept that Pacers offer. It's looking pretty reasonable!"

Props to sticking to your opinion that he's going to sign for under $10M. One track mind indeed.

The funny thing is, despite a market where the $$ to spend and the number of teams looking for top talent far exceeds the number of players available, he suggests Lance is somehow limited because he can only accept what teams are willing to pay. It's OBVIOUS they're all willing to overpay for talents right on par with Lance.

The tier is Lance + Parsons + Hayward.

Hayward got 16. Parsons got 15.

Yet magically, Lance keeps coming in around 8-10 (or Cho failed) aka Avery Bradley territory.

If Cho offers 8-10, he'll lose Lance to a team who gives him 14-16 and Mr. Know It All will be stuck with Gerald Henderson as his starting shooting guard for the second straight season.

The denial is just astonishing.

[BeesWax]

Biz was a project from the start and a Cho pick.

You want to know which team he would prefer just look at the teams. Our team is a better fit and we are young and have a good chance to grow. We are a better team than you guys right now and he is a winner and wants to win.

Look at the real plus minus stats on MKG vs Kanter. MKG is best at the side of the ball that is least analyzed. Also compare that MKG has a positive PER vs his opponents vs Kanter who has a negative according to 82games.com.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/9

http://www.82games.com/1314/13UTA15.HTM vs http://www.82games.com/1314/13CHA11.HTM

Look at the PER vs opponents per 48 towards the bottom. I am not doing this to attack the Jazz we are just in a better place right now and would be more attractive to someone looking to win. Have MKG to defend the other teams best perimeter wing would also be a bonus for Hayward. Ease his job on that end and let him concentrate on scoring.

I agree as far as winning goes CHA is in a better position then the jazz

That was the reason for my statement. All I have ever read about the guy says he values winning a lot. If that is the case we would be a better team for him. We are a set up to be a better fit team wise. I was saying at this point I would assume if he had a choice same money and everything he would choose us so he could win and perform better.

[mrknowitall215]

Hopefully Stephenson is willing to swallow his pride upon seeing Charlotte offer a parallel player in Hayward a max-contract offer sheet and accept a deal between $8-10 million. Otherwise, Cho loss this free-agency, and we may be going into next season without any splash but the irrelevancy of signing Marvin Williams and Brian Roberts

Yeah...after seeing us offer Hayward $15M, I'm sure his first response is, "You know what, I should probably accept that Pacers offer. It's looking pretty reasonable!"

Props to sticking to your opinion that he's going to sign for under $10M. One track mind indeed.

The funny thing is, despite a market where the $$ to spend and the number of teams looking for top talent far exceeds the number of players available, he suggests Lance is somehow limited because he can only accept what teams are willing to pay. It's OBVIOUS they're all willing to overpay for talents right on par with Lance.

The tier is Lance + Parsons + Hayward.

Hayward got 16. Parsons got 15.

Yet magically, Lance keeps coming in around 8-10 (or Cho failed) aka Avery Bradley territory.

If Cho offers 8-10, he'll lose Lance to a team who gives him 14-16 and Mr. Know It All will be stuck with Gerald Henderson as his starting shooting guard for the second straight season.

The denial is just astonishing.

You'll see how much melanin come into play just as much as RFA overpay on this scenario my dear UConn friend. Stephenson isn't going to receive a deal over $10 million. I'm not in denial. I'm stubborn in my beliefs