Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3 + 1

[TinmanZBoy]

If I were Lin I would accept Hornets' MLE offers or offers like that from contender teams, to be a major piece from bench in a strong team...that's his role in this league going forward, and more importantly it fits his mentality...
If, as a NBA player, you care that much how to fit in, how to please every body, your coaches, your teammates, fans... would struggle with all those things, you'd be better be a complimentary piece rather than a starting PG to lead a team....on the other hand,as a GM, you would not sign Lin as your starting PG because he does not have the swagger to be one, you know he'd be miserable...
that's my takes after listening to Lin's yearly testimonies...

[bws94]

I'd like to sig bet someone on here. I don't see him getting 8 figures from someone. 3 years 8.5 per is what I see him getting

You never know what a team will pay. 8 mill seems on the minimal side. 10 is 8 figures. If there's a lot of money out there, he may or may not be paid it. He's coming in as the 2nd or 3rd most desirable PG in this year's market. And he's a combo guard.

[bws94]

If I were Lin I would accept Hornets' MLE offers or offers like that from contender teams, to be a major piece from bench in a strong team...that's his role in this league going forward, and more importantly it fits his mentality...
If, as a NBA player, you care that much how to fit in, how to please every body, your coaches, your teammates, fans... would struggle with all those things, you'd be better be a complimentary piece rather than a starting PG to lead a team....on the other hand,as a GM, you would not sign Lin as your starting PG because he does not have the swagger to be one, you know he'd be miserable...
that's my takes after listening to Lin's yearly testimonies...

Interesting POV. You may be right about his mentality. And Lin as a boss 6th man type would be highly respected. He could win 6th MOY perhaps, that's not impossible if he fixes his shot.

[TinmanZBoy]

Here's a fun exercise... Try to put a % next to all of the factors Lin will consider when choosing where to sign

% add to 100

chance to start
minutes
winning
coach/style of play/role on team
teammates/locker room/team culture
location
salary

(edit, forgot $)

50% money
others combined for the other 50%...

[Kytan]

Top priority:
Chance to start (or at least an important role on team with significant / key playing minutes)

Key factors which, in combination, may override top priority:
Connection / trust in relation to Head Coach

Teammates, Locker-room / Team Culture

Winning situation (the team should at least be a potential play-off bound team with his addition)

Minor consideration points:
Location where there is emotional attachment (e.g. back to NY where Linsanity started or home town of GS)

Salary (I think he will probably accept a minimal of, say, $4m to 6m per year if other higher level priorities are met or there is Player Option included within the contract)

[ChokeFasncists]

this tells me Lin's mentality is more fit to be a player coming off bench....

For most players like scorers, defenders and bigs yes. Facilitating PGs is a bit different. He needs good finishers tho.

I went back to look at the box score and the 3 games where Walker, Batum and MKG played the whole game, Lin average 19 minute.

All 3 these player have injury history, but I wouldn't bank my playing time on it. Lin did play 4th most minutes on team after Walker, Batum, Williams then Lin, but I believe Lin benefited the most on playing time from all the injuries.

Definitely, mainly it was cuz PJ was the starter.

As arm chair GM, I would priority Williams over Lin because I don't see his role diminishing. While if MKG and Batum are healthy, I believe Lin’s role diminishes greatly.

Hey, if everyone's back and well, and Frank improves a lot but still can't play much center, Marvin would definitely get his minutes cut.

The real bitch about all of this is - had we given Lin the MLE last year (ahem, as I suggested) instead of leaving it unused - we could offer him a one-year deal of about $6.55M using his Non-Bird Rights, then turn around next year and offer up to $11.5M per year with his Early Bird Rights in 2017. Oh, and we'd still have the Bi-annual and MLE to use on other players. *sigh*

~lol~ Ya, it was a real strange thing that he didn't get the MLE or part of it last year. I'm guessing it might be cuz of his shooting form change, he knew he was gonna suck a little bit. Or it was just Cho and MJ trying to save some dough?

It's an apples to oranges comparison without considering demand and replacement costs.

Marvin's offensive value is predominantly C&S from the PF position....a low supply position but a high demand skill for all 5 positions, particularly in the front court. There just aren't enough good shooters who are at minimum average defenders.

Lin's value is as a higher usage point guard....the highest supply position (by a mile) with an inherently capped demand for his skill. Whereas you'd be hard pressed finding 15 players like Marvin, there are 50+ that provide at minimum 95% of Lin's production.

It's kinda true, but OTOH, a stretch four isn't really necessary for winning and actually aren't that effective unless you've someone that commands a double team. The best examples are probably guys like Horry playing with Shaq and Duncan or Ryan Anderson with Dwight/AD or Bosh with LBJ.

Look how Marvin was easily shut down in the playoffs.

Well, most teams need a PG that can score and facilitate, unless you've got a point forward like LBJ or Greek Freak; an SG that likes to have the ball in his hands all the times like Harden or AI; or the team is using an offense like the triangle.

[amcoolio]

Lin is going to be set for life with endorsements. I too don't think salary is that important. I could see him resigning here for 6-8 million a year and MJ giving him an under the the table Jordan brand contract when his current one runs out. Lin is also going to make lots of money after his career just traveling the world doing speeches and stuff.

[antique0o0]

Lin said money represents how much a team values a player.
If a team really trusts a player and wants to give him important role, they'll pay him.

Hornets didn't give Lin MLE last year, that showed Hornets thought he didn't worth it.

If a team promises bigger role but offers less money, Lin will not sign the contract. Because promises can change anytime with the money they paid.

[spaceballer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AnthonyFox46/status/741061040658604032[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/AnthonyFox46/status/741061040658604032

[tweet]https://twitter.com/manu77728/status/741905267743297536[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/manu77728/status/741905267743297536

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Loveforlife0323/status/742094929040531456[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/Loveforlife0323/status/742094929040531456

[tweet]https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/742026098540568576[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/742026098540568576

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IC316/status/742155915424473088[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/IC316/status/742155915424473088

[tweet]https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/741710846041038848[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/741710846041038848

[tweet]https://twitter.com/championjlin/status/741596941801259008[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/championjlin/status/741596941801259008

[tweet]https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/741453150897377281[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/linspiredinca/status/741453150897377281

[yosemiteben]

Hornets didn't give Lin MLE last year, that showed Hornets thought he didn't worth it.

Yet by all accounts Lin was very happy with the way he was used last season.

If a team promises bigger role but offers less money, Lin will not sign the contract. Because promises can change anytime with the money they paid.

Lin just did literally the opposite of what you just said. Do you not recognize that?

Also I've got some bad news for Lin if he thinks that chasing a bigger payday will guarantee him a more significant role in a great situation long term. It just increases the likelihood that he'll get traded into a worse situation if he underperforms.

[qiantom]

If you look on the surface, of course Lin said all positive things. That's just who he is. Look at what he said in LA for example. He has expressed though that the team was utilizing far from his full capabilities if you paid attention. It was a good situation for him, but let's be real. It is not ideal, quite far from it.

Lin did not have many choices last year. It was not like he could pick and choose. Hornets' offer was basically the only one that made sense.

You are not going to sign a contract with what if you underperform as the main consideration. If you do not play well and have a small contract, you may not play at all. Or you may also get traded because it is even easier to move a small contract.

If Lin decides to leave Charlotte, it is not going to be because of money. It is going to be because some other team offers a much bigger role. It is just that the bigger role mostly comes with a bigger contract as well.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[spaceballer]

He takes the stage around the 8:30 mark. He makes a few opening remarks in Mandarin, and then he launches into his speech in English beginning around the 9:45 mark. If you're like me and don't know Mandarin, you can just skip to the English speech

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uT7W45I7QU[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uT7W45I7QU

Some nuggets I found interesting, in no particular order or importance...

--He talked about what happened behind the scenes after his 3rd day with the Hornets in the pre-season. A lot of fans have criticized his decision to stay with Montgomery, who was inexperienced and lacked the resources to handle things after Linsanity hit (Montgomery had to outsource a lot of things since he was just a one-man shop, and JLin even had to add on Tanner). But the story about what happened after the 3rd day of pre-season with the Hornets seems to explain the connection with Montgomery. Montgomery really knows to get through to Lin.

--Damn, JLin really is pathological with his work ethic. He's in Hawaii for his trainer's wedding, and on the morning of the wedding, while everyone is getting dressed upstairs, he's in the driveway practicing defensive slides because he can't afford to skip a day of practice I think we even saw that in Iceland with those pics someone caught of him holding a pair of practice shoes in a parking lot, not skipping a day of practice even when on a family vacation out in Iceland.

--That Landry Fields story is sad. I'm not sure everyone realized he couldn't even hold the ball right to bring it up for a shot due to all the surgery and nerve damage.

--Judging from some of the "envy" stuff, I think JLin still badly wants to start.

--I think the stuff he says about his happiness and enjoyment this season with the Hornets actually paradoxically makes it less likely that he returns. He doesn't ascribe the happiness/enjoyment to external circumstances (like the Hornets) but to a change in his inner mindset due to his religion. He even says that the circumstances with the Hornets weren't much different than with the Lakers in many ways (same stats or worse in some ways), only his mindset was different. So presumably, if the happiness is due to a development in his maturing mindset and religion and not tied to the Hornets, he may not find it as crucial to stay in Charlotte to continue to be happy. He just needs his faith in God.

--Apparently Kemba and Marv constantly called him by his Chinese name the whole season

--That John Griffin train story...damn.

--Some of the more religious and evangelical stuff is a touch off for someone like me who isn't religious. But that Christian Testimony is the right venue and a core value for him, so it's expected. I believe he doesn't take as heavy a religious tone in other outlets where it may not be as appropriate, so it's not like he's shoving it down anyone's throat. It's just a part of him, and this is the venue for it. But if you can cut through the religious stuff, there are still interesting nuggets in the speech like the behind the scenes stuff with his agent after the 3rd day of Hornets pre-season practice.

[antique0o0]

Hornets didn't give Lin MLE last year, that showed Hornets thought he didn't worth it.

Yet by all accounts Lin was very happy with the way he was used last season.

If a team promises bigger role but offers less money, Lin will not sign the contract. Because promises can change anytime with the money they paid.

Lin just did literally the opposite of what you just said. Do you not recognize that?

Also I've got some bad news for Lin if he thinks that chasing a bigger payday will guarantee him a more significant role in a great situation long term. It just increases the likelihood that he'll get traded into a worse situation if he underperforms.

Lot of people emphasized "he was happy" (compared with his lakers season), but I think he may want to be "happier" next season with the way he is used.

Lin said that after being underpaid one season, there's big chance he won't do that again in the near future.

Well, trade is way too complicated. Lee was traded to Hornets, and he didn't underperform.

Chasing bigger payday will not guarantee anyone anything, but bigger pay does somehow represent how much the team wants to invest into a player.

At the end, it all depends on the offers he'll get.

[lin is ok]

If I were Lin I would accept Hornets' MLE offers or offers like that from contender teams, to be a major piece from bench in a strong team...that's his role in this league going forward, and more importantly it fits his mentality...
If, as a NBA player, you care that much how to fit in, how to please every body, your coaches, your teammates, fans... would struggle with all those things, you'd be better be a complimentary piece rather than a starting PG to lead a team....on the other hand,as a GM, you would not sign Lin as your starting PG because he does not have the swagger to be one, you know he'd be miserable...
that's my takes after listening to Lin's yearly testimonies...

Interesting POV. You may be right about his mentality. And Lin as a boss 6th man type would be highly respected. He could win 6th MOY perhaps, that's not impossible if he fixes his shot.

the 6th MOY is rigged pointless prize

[bws94]

If I were Lin I would accept Hornets' MLE offers or offers like that from contender teams, to be a major piece from bench in a strong team...that's his role in this league going forward, and more importantly it fits his mentality...
If, as a NBA player, you care that much how to fit in, how to please every body, your coaches, your teammates, fans... would struggle with all those things, you'd be better be a complimentary piece rather than a starting PG to lead a team....on the other hand,as a GM, you would not sign Lin as your starting PG because he does not have the swagger to be one, you know he'd be miserable...
that's my takes after listening to Lin's yearly testimonies...

Interesting POV. You may be right about his mentality. And Lin as a boss 6th man type would be highly respected. He could win 6th MOY perhaps, that's not impossible if he fixes his shot.

the 6th MOY is rigged pointless prize

Maybe all prizes are pointless, but he'd be known more then as 6th man opposed to backup PG which means a bigger role, closest thing to starting that exist in the NBA.

Lin as starting PG may still be somewhat complementary as a player. Indiana is all about Paul George and Monta Ellis, not George Hill.

Lin still has this odd mentality where he's super aggressive and confident and takes charge some games, or parts of the game, and almost passive in other games and parts of the game. I've still haven't figured out why. And in terms of what he says, he serves a higher power and likes humble team mates.

One thing that is was not by you but someone else that isn't accurate is Lin was happy in Charlotte but it was similar to LA and it was him who changed. Not quite. He said his stats weren't that different. But the situation, the coach, team mates, media, atmosphere were quite different. Lin let it be known in his reddit statement how much he loved his teammates. Yes, there were changes with Lin for sure, but the situations here and in LA weren't comparable.

Lin still appears as a Hornet on his Facebook and Twitter. Doesn't mean anything. Nothing means anything with Lin. Either he moves on or stays and where he may go or what ultimately determines it and who is seriously considered may be shared. I think he may say if he leaves Charlotte that he seriously considered going back.

[spaceballer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/manu77728/status/742200861221212160[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/manu77728/status/742200861221212160

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sapabr/status/742279055437762560[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/sapabr/status/742279055437762560

[Roy Tarpley]

He doesn't ascribe the happiness/enjoyment to external circumstances (like the Hornets) but to a change in his inner mindset due to his religion. So presumably, if the happiness is due to a development in his maturing mindset and religion and not tied to the Hornets, he may not find it as crucial to stay in Charlotte to continue to be happy. He just needs his faith in God.

Spaceballer -- this is actually a pretty astute point that you picked up on. I always thought -- and actually still think -- that he was happy in Charlotte because he liked Clifford, he got good playing time, and he loved his teammates (many of whom were classy people and Christians as well). In the testimonial, Lin seems to attribute his happiness internally or to having a different perspective that focuses on counting your blessings and playing for God. If this is true, then he could literally be happy anywhere.

I'm pretty dismissive of faith-based explanations -- I feel like they give too much credit or agency to God and not enough to reality -- so I still think Lin was really happy in Charlotte because the team and staff were great and not because of some epiphany (why didn't he have the epiphany in LA? It's very convenient that he started counting his blessings when surrounded by great people).

[bws94]

He doesn't ascribe the happiness/enjoyment to external circumstances (like the Hornets) but to a change in his inner mindset due to his religion. So presumably, if the happiness is due to a development in his maturing mindset and religion and not tied to the Hornets, he may not find it as crucial to stay in Charlotte to continue to be happy. He just needs his faith in God.

Spaceballer -- this is actually a pretty astute point that you picked up on. I always thought -- and actually still think -- that he was happy in Charlotte because he liked Clifford, he got good playing time, and he loved his teammates (many of whom were classy people and Christians as well). In the testimonial, Lin seems to attribute his happiness internally or to having a different perspective that focuses on counting your blessings and playing for God. If this is true, then he could literally be happy anywhere.

I'm pretty dismissive of faith-based explanations -- I feel like they give too much credit or agency to God and not enough to reality -- so I still think Lin was really happy in Charlotte because the team and staff were great and not because of some epiphany (why didn't he have the epiphany in LA? It's very convenient that he started counting his blessings when surrounded by great people).

I'd say both him and the team circumstance. He's looking for humble teammates. It's both. He wrote that essay on his teammates, teammate by teammate.

I hope Lin uses his faith to guide him through struggles but recognizes basketball skills for what they are, and keep working at skills he needs to work on. And watch tape, look at how he can handle some situations better.

[spaceballer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/penny10654/status/740975198493515777[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/penny10654/status/740975198493515777

What is the guy to girl ratio among the die hard Lin fans in Asia? Judging from that pic its about 10:1 in favor of girls.

I have no idea. I don't have access to that community due to the language barrier.

His fans in Asia have their own Chinese language websites separate from the English ones that we do have access to. They even have their own Chinese equivalent versions of social media (Weibo instead of Twitter, youku instead of Youtube, Baidu instead of Google, etc.)

So since they're on Chinese-langauge websites instead of the English websites like JLinPortal (seems to be a lot of Australians) or JeremyLin.net or JLinForum or all those other Lin-centric websites, and they're not on Facebook/Twitter/youtube/instagram/snapchat/etc. because they're on their Chinese social media equivalent of the banned Western social media outlets, I have no access to them to judge gender ratios. Especially since I can't read the language.

If you think the English-speaking Lin fan communities you encounter are sizeable, I imagine the Asian fan communities cut off from us due to language barriers would be pretty sizeable, too.

In general, I think compared to the typical NBA player's fanbase of young males, Jeremy's fan base is much broader, so I would think he has more female fans than the typical NBA player's young male demographic. Linsanity made him a global cultural icon, getting him fans all over places like Europe and Latin America (the Latin Post covered him heavily, especially during his Houston days) and Australia (not just Asia) and from demographics that don't typically watch sports. Like Ivy League grad Wallstreet bankers who went to sports bars for the first time during Linsanity, or the bible study groups that bought group tickets to his Linsanity games, or the Asian American community centers and civil rights groups that did the same, and bi-coastal fans from both the Bay Area and NYC. That broad coalition of support probably gives him a more equitable gender balance than the typical young male demographic that makes up the fan base of most NBA players. Even this far removed from Linsanity, he still draws attention and has fans when he visits Europe, as just happened with the Iceland family trip.

[Lorenzomax7]

I will meet JLin this weekend.