2020 Pre-Draft Discussion

[MasterIchiro]

Why are we worried about fit? Maybe we can tank into a superstar in 2021? I think it'd actually be good for us to give Devonte most of the scoring duties so we can evaluate him for his next contract. Right to swap firsts sounds like a bad deal to me. 3 is worth a lot more than 8.

http://nbasense.com/draft-pick-trade-value/2/kevin-pelton-2
Draft Pick Trade Value Raw / Normalized Values
Pick Value Normalized
1 4000 100.00
2 3100 77.50
3 2670 66.75
4 2410 60.25
5 2240 56.00
6 2110 52.75
7 2000 50.00
8 1910 47.75
9 1830 45.75
10 1720 43.00
11 1600 40.00
12 1500 37.50
13 1400 35.00
14 1320 33.00
15 1240 31.00
16 1180 29.50
17 1130 28.25
18 1080 27.00
19 1030 25.75
20 980 24.50
21 920 23.00
22 860 21.50
23 800 20.00
24 750 18.75
25 700 17.50
26 660 16.50
27 620 15.50
28 570 14.25
29 520 13.00
30 470 11.75

Right to swap firsts in 2021. It's 2020. The proposal is Lamelo for pick 8, Robinson and right to swap firsts with the Knicks next year. We'd be swapping firsts in a deep draft with maybe the worst team in the NBA + getting a legit center and still having pick 8 in a hazy draft where there might be a gem later in the draft who outplays the top picks.

I don't think it matters though, this deal should be there for the Wolves and/or Warriors. So scratch LaMelo off the board. I'm rooting for Edwards to fall. He has upside as a go-to scorer and an NBA-ready body and athleticism.

How can you advocate so heavily for Robinson while suggesting that Wiseman has no place in the NBA?

After insisting “traditional” bigs are being played out of the game, first you were all about Turner and now it’s Robinson.

The hypocrisy is thick.


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LOL really? Turner is not a traditional center. First off. Robinson is but this deal is not about him. It's about advancing in the 2021 draft for a game-changer. And staying in this one at 8 while solving center. Adding Robinson is like adding Wiseman but getting 1 additional player on top of it (pick 8) and being in position to add a game changer next year. We're currently not in that position right now. So this is about asset management. You can call it hypocrisy though if it makes you feel better! LOL

[Rich4114]

No competent GM is going to make their choice in this draft, especially while picking #3 (after jumping FIVE spots) only to punt to next year and hope the circumstances are just as good or better. Trade an aging vet to a win now team or team who needs cap relief for future picks? Sign me up. But in no way should next season impact the choice we make right now.

[Braggins]

No competent GM is going to make their choice in this draft, especially while picking #3 (after jumping FIVE spots) only to punt to next year and hope the circumstances are just as good or better. Trade an aging vet to a win now team or team who needs cap relief for future picks? Sign me up. But in no way should next season impact the choice we make right now.

I don't think he meant to punt to next year, just that Mitch shouldn't force picking a wing this year if the available wings aren' the best players availabe, even if getting star wing would be ideal.

[Braggins]

Right to swap firsts in 2021. It's 2020. The proposal is Lamelo for pick 8, Robinson and right to swap firsts with the Knicks next year. We'd be swapping firsts in a deep draft with maybe the worst team in the NBA + getting a legit center and still having pick 8 in a hazy draft where there might be a gem later in the draft who outplays the top picks.

I don't think it matters though, this deal should be there for the Wolves and/or Warriors. So scratch LaMelo off the board. I'm rooting for Edwards to fall. He has upside as a go-to scorer and an NBA-ready body and athleticism.

How can you advocate so heavily for Robinson while suggesting that Wiseman has no place in the NBA?

After insisting “traditional” bigs are being played out of the game, first you were all about Turner and now it’s Robinson.

The hypocrisy is thick.


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LOL really? Turner is not a traditional center. First off. Robinson is but this deal is not about him. It's about advancing in the 2021 draft for a game-changer. And staying in this one at 8 while solving center. Adding Robinson is like adding Wiseman but getting 1 additional player on top of it (pick 8) and being in position to add a game changer next year. We're currently not in that position right now. So this is about asset management. You can call it hypocrisy though if it makes you feel better! LOL

Turner is 12/7 guy who shoots 35% from 3 on medium volume. Hes a drop coverage guy on defense who doesn't switch out on to perimeter players well and he doesn't have any kind of perimeter game on offense other than mediocre spot up shooting. He actually doesn't really have hardly any offensive game other than his spot up shooting. He is a good rim protector who provides some spacing, so hes definitely an ok player to have on your team, but you wanting to trade the #3 pick for him is silly. Hes like the 4th or 5th best player on a low seed playoff team and his box +/- this season was completely neutral (slight + on defense, slight - on offense) and only +0.6 for his career. He was 23rd in RPM among centers this season (negative on offense, positive on defense).

[UNCNYC]

This is a draft where I wouldn't mind us giving up our #3 pick for nothing but 2 future maybe 3 future lottery protected 1st rounders. Reason being is that imo this draft has the same level of Talent all the way through to the last pick. Also I have a strong feeling that there is gonna be names like

PG - Devon Dotson
SF - Tyler Bey
SG - Leandro Balmoro
SG - Tyrell Terry
PF - JaDen McDaniels
C - Zeke Nnaji
C - Jalen Smith
PF - Saddiq Bey

That could potentially fall. So we could pick up 3 future 1st (because no way the Knicks wouldn't do that AND keep their 8th pick this year) So the knicks would have pick #3 and have pick #8 and they could package them and move up or just keep them all for 3 future 1st roundersh.

Then we could walk away with a draft like

Pick 32 - Terrell Terry, Jalen Smtih, Leandro Balmoro

PICK 56 - CJ Elleby, LaMar Stevens, Tyshon Alexander

If any were to fall...

[MasterIchiro]

How can you advocate so heavily for Robinson while suggesting that Wiseman has no place in the NBA?

After insisting “traditional” bigs are being played out of the game, first you were all about Turner and now it’s Robinson.

The hypocrisy is thick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL really? Turner is not a traditional center. First off. Robinson is but this deal is not about him. It's about advancing in the 2021 draft for a game-changer. And staying in this one at 8 while solving center. Adding Robinson is like adding Wiseman but getting 1 additional player on top of it (pick 8) and being in position to add a game changer next year. We're currently not in that position right now. So this is about asset management. You can call it hypocrisy though if it makes you feel better! LOL

Turner is 12/7 guy who shoots 35% from 3 on medium volume. Hes a drop coverage guy on defense who doesn't switch out on to perimeter players well and he doesn't have any kind of perimeter game on offense other than mediocre spot up shooting. He actually doesn't really have hardly any offensive game other than his spot up shooting. He is a good rim protector who provides some spacing, so hes definitely an ok player to have on your team, but you wanting to trade the #3 pick for him is silly. Hes like the 4th or 5th best player on a low seed playoff team and his box +/- this season was completely neutral (slight + on defense, slight - on offense) and only +0.6 for his career. He was 23rd in RPM among centers this season (negative on offense, positive on defense).

Yet Turner is better than anyone projected at 3 easily, and is a young 2-way center who can space the floor. Pacers fans hate this trade btw.

[Braggins]

LOL really? Turner is not a traditional center. First off. Robinson is but this deal is not about him. It's about advancing in the 2021 draft for a game-changer. And staying in this one at 8 while solving center. Adding Robinson is like adding Wiseman but getting 1 additional player on top of it (pick 8) and being in position to add a game changer next year. We're currently not in that position right now. So this is about asset management. You can call it hypocrisy though if it makes you feel better! LOL

Turner is 12/7 guy who shoots 35% from 3 on medium volume. Hes a drop coverage guy on defense who doesn't switch out on to perimeter players well and he doesn't have any kind of perimeter game on offense other than mediocre spot up shooting. He actually doesn't really have hardly any offensive game other than his spot up shooting. He is a good rim protector who provides some spacing, so hes definitely an ok player to have on your team, but you wanting to trade the #3 pick for him is silly. Hes like the 4th or 5th best player on a low seed playoff team and his box +/- this season was completely neutral (slight + on defense, slight - on offense) and only +0.6 for his career. He was 23rd in RPM among centers this season (negative on offense, positive on defense).

Yet Turner is better than anyone projected at 3 easily, and is a young 2-way center who can space the floor. Pacers fans hate this trade btw.

You don't think theres anyone available at #3 who can have a pretty much completely neutral impact and be around the 20th best player at their position?

He averaged 12 points and 1 assist in 30 minutes this season. He had a negative offensive box +/- and a negative offensive RPM and his only offensive skill is shooting 35% from 3. Calling him two way seems like a bit of a stretch.

[316Hornets]

Right to swap firsts in 2021. It's 2020. The proposal is Lamelo for pick 8, Robinson and right to swap firsts with the Knicks next year. We'd be swapping firsts in a deep draft with maybe the worst team in the NBA + getting a legit center and still having pick 8 in a hazy draft where there might be a gem later in the draft who outplays the top picks.

I don't think it matters though, this deal should be there for the Wolves and/or Warriors. So scratch LaMelo off the board. I'm rooting for Edwards to fall. He has upside as a go-to scorer and an NBA-ready body and athleticism.

Here's the thing. Mitchell Robinson was picked in the 2nd round and can't play more than 25 minutes a night due to fouling at an absolutely idiotic rate. I'm not trading the possibility of picking a franchise player(top 3 is a good place to find them) for a foul prone big man and a right to swap.

Knicks aren't exactly in a terrible position either so assuming they won't improve next year is low percentage. They'll have the money to sign a max contract player and RJ Barrett will be another year older.

At the end of the day, it is with almost certainty that I think this team HAS to keep the #3 pick. After the Kemba debacle, fan morale is at an all time low. Trading away our winning lottery ticket is a kick in the balls, don't care how good the offer is.

[316Hornets]

Mitch Kupchak hasn't had many high lottery picks, only 2 from what I could see.

Players selected?
2015 #2: D'Angelo Russell
2016 #2: Brandon Ingram

Who most closely resembles those 2 guys? Lamelo Ball/Edwards and Wiseman. I'd put big money on us selecting one of the 3.

[LofJ]

One of Kupchak's more consistent habits when it comes to the draft is his preference for players that can pass. While we need what Wiseman brings to the table, we shouldn't be surprised if Mitch decides to draft Avdija (Ball will already be off the board).

If I were Mitch though I'd just take whoever is there at 3 out of Edwards/Wiseman and figure out a way to trade into the late 1st to get Leandro Balmoro. That way we can swing for the fences at 3 (as we should) and pick up a playmaking wing.

[316Hornets]

It's incredible how much the top of this draft resembles the 2016 draft

Ball - Simmons
Wiseman - Ingram
Edwards - Jaylen Brown
Hayes - Khris Dunn
Avidja - Dragan Bender
Okongwu - Domantas Sabonis
Toppin - Marquese Chriss
Cole Anthony - Jamal Murray

[yosemiteben]

My scattershot thoughts on this draft:

I already stopped watching college basketball well before last season, so I have literally zero insight into any of these guys. Based on that, I really don't view myself as more qualified than the next guy to assess these prospects. At the end of the day, I'm not really going to be upset no matter who we pick.

With that said, given the perceived warts on all of these prospects, I will feel good about drafting someone who projects to be a high level starter with low downside. I don't have any confidence that any of these players will be elite, and based on that I'll take reliability over perceived potential.

I think OO is the most likely player to materially help our team, has shown the best combination of high level BBIQ and efficiency and rounded skillset on both ends, while presenting the least likelihood of being a wasted pick.

I watched some video on Edwards because I was thinking of going all in on him, but I'm very concerned about (1) the lack of C&S in his game and (2) what looks to me to be a major BBIQ deficiency. He's super young so maybe I shouldn't care about either of these, but damn that guy makes some real bad decisions and does not appear to have anything resembling discipline in the way he plays. I thought this was a very interesting writeup of him: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/12/21134535/anthony-edwards-nba-draft-2020-georgia

I want to like Wiseman, but I'm cooling on him. At this point for me he's just a tall super long guy. His length is super enticing, but I just have a real hard time with the limited data available on him. We need this pick to work out, and I'm just not confident in him as a pick.

Ball - I don't want him, but if we take him I'm going to rely on the FO and just hope for the best. Maybe he'll be great. He just looks absurdly undisciplined and his shot looks shot to hell.

My absolute best case scenario is we find a way to trade down and come out of this draft with OO and Haliburton.

[4pointkiller]

[BigSlam]

He (Turner) is a good rim protector..

I agree with everything you wrote, except this.

I’m not sure he a a good rim protector. I’d suggest Turner is a good weak side defender (where he racks up a lot of his blocks) but not necessarily a good rim defender - for all the reasons you said, in particular him being very heavy footed.

Like I said, I’m on board with everything you posted though.


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[Braggins]

My scattershot thoughts on this draft:

I already stopped watching college basketball well before last season, so I have literally zero insight into any of these guys. Based on that, I really don't view myself as more qualified than the next guy to assess these prospects. At the end of the day, I'm not really going to be upset no matter who we pick.

With that said, given the perceived warts on all of these prospects, I will feel good about drafting someone who projects to be a high level starter with low downside. I don't have any confidence that any of these players will be elite, and based on that I'll take reliability over perceived potential.

I think OO is the most likely player to materially help our team, has shown the best combination of high level BBIQ and efficiency and rounded skillset on both ends, while presenting the least likelihood of being a wasted pick.

I watched some video on Edwards because I was thinking of going all in on him, but I'm very concerned about (1) the lack of C&S in his game and (2) what looks to me to be a major BBIQ deficiency. He's super young so maybe I shouldn't care about either of these, but damn that guy makes some real bad decisions and does not appear to have anything resembling discipline in the way he plays. I thought this was a very interesting writeup of him: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/2/12/21134535/anthony-edwards-nba-draft-2020-georgia

I want to like Wiseman, but I'm cooling on him. At this point for me he's just a tall super long guy. His length is super enticing, but I just have a real hard time with the limited data available on him. We need this pick to work out, and I'm just not confident in him as a pick.

Ball - I don't want him, but if we take him I'm going to rely on the FO and just hope for the best. Maybe he'll be great. He just looks absurdly undisciplined and his shot looks shot to hell.

My absolute best case scenario is we find a way to trade down and come out of this draft with OO and Haliburton.

Agree with everything except I like Wiseman well enough.

[yosemiteben]

I must be missing something on Okoro - don't know anything and pulled his stats. How is a 6'6" dude that averaged 13 points, 4 boards, and 2 assists a potential top 5 pick?

[BigSlam]

I must be missing something on Okoro - don't know anything and pulled his stats. How is a 6'6" dude that averaged 13 points, 4 boards, and 2 assists a potential top 5 pick?

yosemiteben, I’d like to introduce you to weak draft class.

Weak draft class, this is yosemiteben.




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[Rich4114]

The draft seems so damn far away still

[UNCNYC]

Weird draft. The first pick Edwards might not be better than what could be the last pick in Ty'shon Alexander lol. I truly hope we don't draft Obi Toppin. (I highly doubt we do). To me his game reminds me of Paul Reed who is expected to be drafted mid to late 2nd round by the mocks I have seen and I think Reed is a better prospect. Their games are similar tho but I like Reed.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[JMAC3]

Weird draft. The first pick Edwards might not be better than what could be the last pick in Ty'shon Alexander lol. I truly hope we don't draft Obi Toppin. (I highly doubt we do). To me his game reminds me of Paul Reed who is expected to be drafted mid to late 2nd round by the mocks I have seen and I think Reed is a better prospect. Their games are similar tho but I like Reed.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Maybe just pick 5 guys you think are going to be good outside of top 20. When you have 18 guys who you think could be good in the second round it’s not that impressive if you get 1 right.

It’s like betting golf, if I choose 28 golfers to win the tournament and then I get the winner right it’s cool, but most likely I lost money because I had too many guys I put money on and it’s not as impressive or profitable.

I love your energy and not saying don’t dive into the draft, but it’s hard for me to get behind your guys when there are so many and constantly changing.


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