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2025 Summer League

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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1041 » by KembaWalker » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:54 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:The take-home for me this SL is the emergence of Liam & Kon as legitimate prospects.

Honestly felt like Tidjane PTSD biased my confidence in this draft. I was dreading a poor selection. Just terrified.

I think I said if Jeff were to draft Kon I'd long for the return of Dick Cho and the pu pu platter draft plate he served through the years, all his picks busting except for Kemba Walker.

Kon and Liam may not reach their ceilings as above average starters, but I feel like I saw enough in their games to trust they won't crash to their floors. And their floors (especially Kon's) look much higher than I forecast originally.

Kon may have been a small reach at 4 but consider swinging for Patrick Williams at 4, the athletic archetype with size, yet no feel, no IQ, no ability to raise the level of play in teammates.

And obviously Liam shoots better than his NCAA numbers, and there is some data backing it from HS and from pre-injury.

Jeff drafted 2 snipers who know what to do with the ball in their hands, can carve space, manage the floor, make reads, and execute the right play at the right place and time for teammates to exploit the defense.

The draft was an A even if Ace and Fears or Tre hit. We raised the floor of a roster featuring legit high end talents in Melo and Miller.

Time to play with house money (8 firsts, 12 seconds) for upgrades that move the needle while this draft class matures and adapts to NBA level competition.

Love their fighting, competitive spirit as well. They have seemed locked on every possession.


I agree completely. I think that barring injuries both Liam and Kon will be at worst useful NBA players almost immediately and both could be good starters with some seasoning.


Definitely.

And I believe the entire NBA community now better appreciates the limitations of prospects in the one-and-done era.

It's not realistic to expect teens to step in and compete with NBA starters. Jeff is ahead of the game if Kon and Liam can contribute from the bench and make positive impact in the 9th-10th spots during their first 4 years playing on a rookie contract.

Today's restricted free agents are virtually fresh off college senior year. That is how the front office should view them. Otherwise you're gambling (Tidjane).

And when a team starts adding young vets like Sexton (26), and starts winning, you have to bring along prospects as support pieces.

It's too bad Bouknight and Kai were head cases after returning for their sophomore seasons, making some improvements that made them look like safer home run hacks.

On that end, Kon and Liam play mentally tough, stay within their games.


idk if this is satire but this is what i was talking about in the other thread yesterday
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1042 » by MasterIchiro » Fri Jul 18, 2025 1:57 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:
I agree completely. I think that barring injuries both Liam and Kon will be at worst useful NBA players almost immediately and both could be good starters with some seasoning.


Definitely.

And I believe the entire NBA community now better appreciates the limitations of prospects in the one-and-done era.

It's not realistic to expect teens to step in and compete with NBA starters. Jeff is ahead of the game if Kon and Liam can contribute from the bench and make positive impact in the 9th-10th spots during their first 4 years playing on a rookie contract.

Today's restricted free agents are virtually fresh off college senior year. That is how the front office should view them. Otherwise you're gambling (Tidjane).

And when a team starts adding young vets like Sexton (26), and starts winning, you have to bring along prospects as support pieces.

It's too bad Bouknight and Kai were head cases after returning for their sophomore seasons, making some improvements that made them look like safer home run hacks.

On that end, Kon and Liam play mentally tough, stay within their games.


idk if this is satire but this is what i was talking about in the other thread yesterday


I'm being dead serious. In the one-and-done era, with few exceptions, the players ready to start in the NBA are trending higher and higher in the lottery. This draft it will be Cooper and Harper, then randos.

When you lean into upside in raw players like Salaün, you end up paying them big dollars while they hold no greater value than the Swarm mascot.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1043 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:05 pm

The bust ratio of draft picks has seemingly gotten higher as they draft mostly teenagers now. You just don't know if "raw" talent or physical traits will translate into good NBA players with some of those guys. They are also still kids so many of them fall into the same bad habits many of us did at 19 or 20.
Character matters too and I don't think MJ era, we did the research on that end. Seems like this year all our picks had some thought put into them. Low bar but it's a start and it's showing in SL.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1044 » by JDR720 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:26 pm

With how deep the average NBA team is these days you can't really afford to "waste" rosters spot on projects unless you have so many assets/depth it doesn't matter (like OKC) or are in a deep rebuild like Utah. It's also important to have injury insurance, as we found out last season when half our team was G-League level.

It's interesting to note that the average NBA star (at least the Americans) aren't as good as they used to be either. Tatum and Halliburton types aren't close to Kobe or LeBron or even guys like Dwight from an impact standpoint.

I think todays AAU ball (and NBA ball) selects for team-based play over individual play, which is why the average American star isn't as good as they used to be. This style naturally results in more "super role players" instead. Players who can't do a role, regardless of physical traits, get killed off pretty quickly. Whereas skilled players can stick because they happen to do one or two important things well.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1045 » by JDR720 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 2:43 pm

Continuing this thought.

This is also why European players are better than they used to be in the NBA. The way the game is played, offensively, is based on ball/player movement and shooting. Two things EU players historically excel at.

And on defense, it's less 1v1 defense, and more team defense. So you don't need to be a top tier athlete to be a good (if not great) defender.

So we'll see more guys like Kon and Liam picked high in the draft, who fit the way the game is played these days. And fewer heliocentric players because the way the game is played artificially caps those types of players ceilings, yet raises the floors of the role players at the same time.

This is why Yang went much higher than expected. He's the Jokic/Sengun archetype, the new modern "do it all offensively" centers.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1046 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:05 pm

JDR720 wrote:Continuing this thought.

This is also why European players are better than they used to be in the NBA. The way the game is played, offensively, is based on ball/player movement and shooting. Two things EU players historically excel at.

And on defense, it's less 1v1 defense, and more team defense. So you don't need to be a top tier athlete to be a good (if not great) defender.

So we'll see more guys like Kon and Liam picked high in the draft, who fit the way the game is played these days. And fewer heliocentric players because the way the game is played artificially caps those types of players ceilings, yet raises the floors of the role players at the same time.

This is why Yang went much higher than expected. He's the Jokic/Sengun archetype, the new modern "do it all offensively" centers.


Both of these are right, I think. The lack of real coaching authority in AAU and college for many players is also holding some people back from developing fully and it is helping the Euros.
All the NIL and AAU $ means a lot of guys are super coddled and catered to. This means many of them don't have to work as hard to maximize their skills or learn to play winning team basketball (Ace?). This means they don't always pan out in the dog eat dog NBA as well as their raw skills may make it look they should.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1047 » by GoBobs » Fri Jul 18, 2025 3:17 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:The bust ratio of draft picks has seemingly gotten higher as they draft mostly teenagers now. You just don't know if "raw" talent or physical traits will translate into good NBA players with some of those guys. They are also still kids so many of them fall into the same bad habits many of us did at 19 or 20.
Character matters too and I don't think MJ era, we did the research on that end. Seems like this year all our picks had some thought put into them. Low bar but it's a start and it's showing in SL.


I think you make a good point about Character. I don't think there is a guy we drafted that I can imagine being involved in a good strip club fight.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1048 » by yosemiteben » Fri Jul 18, 2025 4:29 pm

https://thef5.substack.com/p/summer-league-stats-you-can-trust

Good article comparing meaningful vs non-meaningful stats in summer league based on rookie year production.

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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1049 » by fatlever » Fri Jul 18, 2025 6:45 pm

^ from the sticky stats - stats you can trust for projecting roles
both kon and liam clearly project to shoot 3s and move the ball
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1050 » by fatlever » Fri Jul 18, 2025 9:06 pm

btw... Was last night the most exciting Hornets game we've had in three years? or 2nd most... The Lakers game last year Following the trade deadline
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1051 » by KembaWalker » Fri Jul 18, 2025 9:14 pm

fatlever wrote:btw... Was last night the most exciting Hornets game we've had in three years? or 2nd most... The Lakers game last year Following the trade deadline


game 1 of last season was great, other than Brandon going down early, Melo having a huge game with 10 FT in a road win against Houston, thought things were gonna be different

the pistons game a couple weeks after that with Miller/Ball 38/35pt OT game was sick

for a late season meaningless game the @Spurs March game was pretty sick, everyone on fire pretty much
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1052 » by UNCNYC » Sat Jul 19, 2025 12:54 am

Tomorrow we go against some guy name AJ MITCHELL. I never heard of him, but there is this guy on this board who has mentioned him. He mentions players often that probably noone but him has heard of. Go figure.

For me I wanted Flagg or Harper but not this guy.
UPDATED 7-5-2025



These are who I want with our picks in order



Fears
Raynaud
Kam Jones
Taelon Peter - or Will Richard
Chase Hunter - summer league invite
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1053 » by Diop » Sat Jul 19, 2025 3:02 pm

Knicks brought Nnaji over but are playing him less than 10 minutes a game
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1054 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:04 pm

bummer that liam, tiddy and sion all out again today. need another masterclass from kj and kon.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1055 » by Hornet Mania » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:07 pm

You can eject coaches in summer league? Bizarre scene. Raps coach got tossed down 8 with 12.9 seconds to play.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1056 » by Hornet Mania » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:11 pm

The future Swarm alumni are apparently favored to win this game despite seeding, at least according to ESPN's betting line. Hopefully everyone comes with the same focus as last game.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1057 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:11 pm

thunder sitting topic and ajay
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1058 » by JustBuzzin » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:20 pm

Kon the only top 5 pick still playing.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1059 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:23 pm

you can tell how well coached thunder are on def. different level. no easy looks tonight.
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Re: 2025 Summer League 

Post#1060 » by fatlever » Sat Jul 19, 2025 10:25 pm

crazy that every team now has a full court press in sl.
people thought mike dunlap was nuts when he did it.

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