Defensive Reasons - The PJ Hairston Thread

BlackOutBuzz · Post #1061 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 11:48 pm

What a weird precedent this sets. Of course I'd rather have Lamb, and I liked his deal, but I don't think he's so much better that we'd give him 6x what PJ was due AND THEN completely pull the $1.2m out from Hairston.

With Lamb and Zeller's option, we just committed $12m to our second unit while opting to not give literally 1/10 of that to a starter. Not that I totally disagree, but it's just an odd move. Seems to indicate a real disconnect between Cho and Clifford, too.

How do you continue to start Hairston over Lamb now? Hell, not sure you can even leave him in the rotation. Move Marvin to backup 3, start Lamb and Zeller, and basically bench PJ.

LamarMatic7 · Post #1062 » by **LamarMatic7** » Mon Nov 2, 2015 11:53 pm

My thoughts on why PJ Hairston should continue starting and examples of his awesome defense against Korver:
http://lamarmatic.com/2015/11/02/hairstons-starters-role-and-lambs-extension/

BlackOutBuzz · Post #1063 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:02 am

I guess the team is all-in on the wing trio of MKG, Batum, and Lamb. That's a pretty solid group, but I feel like PJ would've been worth the $1.2m just in case Lamb doesn't work out. Now imagine if PJ goes on to have a really good year while Lamb struggles.

Snidely FC · Post #1064 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:11 am

^ good stuff Lamar

Particularly like your conclusion on PJ:
"In a way, we have found a way to utilize a player who didn't show NBA-worthy production last season as he has actually contributed well to a good line-up."

Bazemore who killed us the last two games is an example of a guy who hung on in the NBA due to his defense and in 3 games this year has turned himself into a 53% 3 pt shooter.

I am truly amazed at PJs defense vs Korver particularly for the BBIQ it evidences.

. . . all of which leaves me really confused, why would they not pick up a $1mln option on PJ?

Post #1065 » by **fatlever** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:21 am

Seth Partnow ‏@SethPartnow 10m10 minutes ago

Hairston not getting option picked up after starting first few games at least raises questions about FO/coaching communication in Charlotte.

I am inclined to agree

Post #1066 » by **fatlever** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:23 am

LamarMatic7 wrote:My thoughts on why PJ Hairston should continue starting and examples of his awesome defense against Korver:
http://lamarmatic.com/2015/11/02/hairstons-starters-role-and-lambs-extension/

More proof that the refs on Sunday weren't calling ANYTHING in those first 3 quarters.

LamarMatic7 · Post #1067 » by **LamarMatic7** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:24 am

fatlever wrote:
Seth Partnow ‏@SethPartnow 10m10 minutes ago

Hairston not getting option picked up after starting first few games at least raises questions about FO/coaching communication in Charlotte.

I am inclined to agree

So... Lowe saying that Cho and Clifford have a cool relationship might be due to a reason.

Post #1068 » by **JDR720** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:25 am

yea i think there is. Cliff keeps saying PJ has starting potential and actually starts him (where PJ has done pretty well) and then Cho declining the option is just weird, especially since its a very very cheap option.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1069 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:29 am

Don't care how good Hairstons defense is if he continues to shoot at the rate he has. Some of those shots need to start falling.

Braggins · Post #1070 » by **Braggins** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 12:32 am

I hope someday we get some good inside info about the nature of the relationship between Cho and Clifford. It probably wouldn't be until after one of them was fired, but I'd be really curious to hear some specific details about how everything has went down in our front office over the last few years.

Post #1071 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:00 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:Don't care how good Hairstons defense is if he continues to shoot at the rate he has. Some of those shots need to start falling.

I totally agree with Lamar's analysis, but I agree with this too. Teams are just going to give PJ the Lance treatment until he starts hitting shots.

Post #1072 » by **BigSlam** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:09 am

Braggins wrote:I hope someday we get some good inside info about the nature of the relationship between Cho and Clifford. It probably wouldn't be until after one of them was fired, but I'd be really curious to hear some specific details about how everything has went down in our front office over the last few years.

I sort of feel that Cliff is a bit of a blue collar throw back kind of guy while Cho is a cyborg sent from the planet Analyticus - and they just don't speak the same language.

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Post #1073 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:16 am

Theories:

1 - Cho and Cliff were using PJ to drive Lamb's agent to a deal (unlikely IMO).

2 - Cliff was sincere about liking PJ as a starter and part of the rotation and he and Cho are just not on the same page (possible).

3 - there was an undisclosed character issue that came up that is acting as a sort of third strike again PJ (wouldn't be shocking, but odd that no one has reported it if that's the reason).

MasterIchiro · Post #1074 » by **MasterIchiro** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:25 am

Theory:

The front office included Cliff in the decision to reject the option or at least informed him in advance and Cliff knew it was coming long before it happened and praised PJ in advance knowing it would help him absorb the blow.

MasterIchiro · Post #1075 » by **MasterIchiro** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:27 am

And the praise had the side benefit of influencing the negotiations with lamb, making him think they were big on pj. Notice they didn't decline Pj before extending Lamb. The order happened the way it did because of leverage.

MasterIchiro · Post #1076 » by **MasterIchiro** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:33 am

Some seem to be implying that Lamb is better yet Clifford didn't see it throughout the entire training camp and exhibition season, as if he didn't give daily reports on the results of practices, scrimmages, film analysis, statistical data etc comparing the two and if he did so, his evaluation was the complete opposite of what we all know and that is that Lamb is clearly more talented than PJ.

Cmon.

LamarMatic7 · Post #1077 » by **LamarMatic7** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:34 am

I think there's some of this at work as well - Clifford, a defensive-minded coach, has found Hairston a weird yet successful role as a stopper with the starters, while the management looks at his past production and says - what the hell, Cliff? this guy isn't good. Lamb is the better freaking prospect.

Cho proceeds to throw out some limited sample size Lamb numbers which work out great on his numbers computer and whatnot, while Cliff raves about PJ's effort on defense.

Post #1078 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:36 am

MasterIchiro wrote:Theory:

The front office included Cliff in the decision to reject the option or at least informed him in advance and Cliff knew it was coming long before it happened and praised PJ in advance knowing it would help him absorb the blow.

Absorb the blow? Cliff said he was doing a good job as a starter, then we said just three games into his second year and the day after Cliff praised him that he won't be worth $1M a year from now when that will be like 1% of the cap. If anything it gave him false assurances.

MasterIchiro · Post #1079 » by **MasterIchiro** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:39 am

yosemiteben wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:Theory:

The front office included Cliff in the decision to reject the option or at least informed him in advance and Cliff knew it was coming long before it happened and praised PJ in advance knowing it would help him absorb the blow.

Absorb the blow? Cliff said he was doing a good job as a starter, then we said just three games into his second year and the day after Cliff praised him that he won't be worth $1M a year from now when that will be like 1% of the cap. If anything it gave him false assurances.

Clifford has to show he's on his players side or someone like PJ might sulk, he might lose him. So he can easily say hey I disagree with their decision and believe in you that you can prove them wrong and earn an NBA contract. You belong in this league if you apply yourself on D and get better with your shot selection.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #1080 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Tue Nov 3, 2015 1:43 am

I wouldn't be surprised if MasterIchiro's first post of 4 above is at least partially correct.

I also think that Cliff is doing exactly what he talked about in the recent article about him. He's trying to find the best thing for the team. Right now that's PJ taking MKG's defensive stopper role and starting. It's working OK, and gives PJ motivation knowing that he still has an opportunity to play himself into a future in the league.

Cho is doing what he thinks is best for the team in the mid to long run. MKG will be back next year and PJ doesn't fit for whatever reason ... and we may never know. It could be the poor shooting, lack of BBIQ, the whole fake agent thing, substance issues, or really anything.

Personally I'm OK with both PJ starting (for now) and him not being extended.